PCGS Change to Guarantee on World coins

JCMhouston · December 7, 2009 4:46AM

<< <i>We are also making two important changes to the PCGS Grading Guarantee effective for PCGS graded world coins and copper coins graded or sold after January 1, 2010. For world coins (i.e. non-U.S. coins), we will have a limit on our guarantee of $10,000 per coin. And for Chinese coins, we will have a limit on our guarantee of $1,000 per coin. >>

I know this may not effect many of us, but what do you think? There are a lot of Chinese dollars worth more than $1K (that I don't collect), and a lot of world coins in general (that I do collect) worth more than $10K. There are even a couple that I would pony up $10K for, and I'm a notorious skinflint. I believe in the future I will ask for the dealer to cross to another TPG with a better guarantee.

worldcoinguy · December 7, 2009 5:04AM

Two thoughts come to mind:

1). Its not hard to read the message about Chinese coins. Frightening.

2). I think this opens the door for future product line/service differentiation at PCGS. It would be a good way to set the stage for a premium slabbing service at PCGS with microchips/rfid/technology in the slab in an effort to create some type of more secure 'super slab'. They could protect themselves with greater security and better imagery in a new enhanced internal database, and they could perhaps have some different level price guarantee on items at this level. Some type of optional pedigree audit trail on items at this premium level would be interesting, but privacy would need to be protected with the utmost care.

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · December 7, 2009 6:53AM

Sounds like they're not 100% confident in their ability to discern real vs. counterfeit.

What about the Chinese coins that look suspiciously/amazingly like Morgan or Trade Dollars?

I guess I can understand the limit on world coins in general, since the number of obscure series makes it near impossible for one entity to be the "all knowing experts", although I think this will hurt them a bit with some of the bigger world collectors.

Everyone is tightening their belts a bit and that's all this is.

Indeed.

edited for spelling.

OnlyBuffalos · December 7, 2009 9:01AM

Neither PCGS nor NGC have much of a presence in the World Coin arena although both are making a serious attempt at it. Most rare world coins are raw. The $1,000 limit on Chinese coins leaves out just about all gold coins including many modern gold Pandas, etc.

The China market is potentially huge especially when all the provinces are considered. A very large number of these coins regularly sell in auction for over $1,000.

coinkat · December 7, 2009 9:57AM

Having a limitation on a guarantee is fine... what that guarantee should be remains to be seen and 10K seems light

ajaan · December 7, 2009 9:58AM

Guarantee on what?

They are going to lose some Canadian coin submissions if they only guanantee to $10,000.

SYRACUSIAN · December 7, 2009 10:36AM

I never took the World coin guarantee seriously anyway. Is it based on Krause or the submitter's values?

wybrit · December 7, 2009 10:56AM

The last time I sent a coin back, I received back my purchase price. Apparently, the amount of the guarantee may be up to the TPG making it, though.

dizzlecc · December 7, 2009 12:23PM

It is good information to know. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

With the stuff coming out of China. It helps having coins in holders and backed by some level of guarantee. In addition, for high dollar coins, I would recommend purchasing from a trusted source.

coinpictures · December 7, 2009 1:13PM

<< <i>I never took the World coin guarantee seriously anyway. Is it based on Krause or the submitter's values? >>

Neither, Dimitri. It's whatever PCGS feels the coin is worth.

Seriously. I had a U.S. coin downgrade at PCGS and their buyback offer was a joke. Less than wholesale prices, let alone their own price guide.

MrEureka · December 9, 2009 12:19PM

I wonder how long it's going to be before the Chinese counterfeiters force PCGS to lower their guaranty limits on other countries. FWIW, my guess is that Russia will be next.

JCMhouston · December 9, 2009 12:43PM

I agree with you on that Andy, seems like a huge amount of Russian stuff coming out. And some of it is esoteric enough that who knows what's real and what's not, except for the true specialists of course.

SYRACUSIAN · December 9, 2009 8:07PM

Wybrit, I admire your courage of getting into this guarantee thing with such uncertain results. I would have expected that things would have been simpler with US coins but coinpictures seems to disagree.

I really don't see myself ever claiming such a guarantee, for any other reason than authenticity. If I had problems with the grading I'd resell it as is, or crack it out and resubmit it, or even resell it raw and take my losses. I don't know what range of price would be worth such an exhaustive and uncertain procedure.

Hussulo · December 10, 2009 1:36AM

Personally I think its a bit of a step backwards and shows lack of confidence.

If you are the probably the best known TGP you and you are worried about counterfeits etc. you really need to look at how making the slabs more secure, hiring even more educated World coin graders or looking at better equipment and resources for testing possible counterfeits. You need to be thinking about stepping up to the challenge.

I can understand their decision over copper coins as copper is renowned for being a reactive material and copper coins do tone or get damaged atmospherically quite easily. A lot of it is down to how the owners store them or how they were handled prior to being slabbed (fingerprints for instance can take years to develop) but as a grading and authentication service hopping to gain more customers and hopping to get more expensive, high end rarities into PCGS slabs, putting a cap on the guarantee doesn't seem like a logical move.

Maybe they have tried to spread themselves over too wide an area covering the whole World and it would cost too much to higher expert graders for all World counties. Perhaps a better solution would be to only grade say coins from the US, Canada, UK and Russia and focus more on a smaller amount of countries, prove to all doubters that you are the expert TGP in your selected areas and offer a full guarantee for the countries you specialise in.

worldcoinguy · December 15, 2009 9:13AM

Interesting article from across the street on security improvements:

link

JCMhouston · December 15, 2009 9:37AM

<< <i>say coins from the US, Canada, UK and Russia >>

...but, but, but, what about my German States and Swiss???

coinkat · December 15, 2009 10:36AM

I am not surprised

PCGS Change to Guarantee on World coins

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