Work in Progress (FF informative thread)
1989FleerBillRipkencollector
Posts: 4,590
Got my scanner going. Some of my pics were clearer than my scans!
I'll update as time allows.
4 or more versions were left off. Will post once confirmed legit and/or my buddy obtains them.
ODDBALL
FAKE
VERSIONS & MISC.
FF
FF (BLACK INK OFFSET-PRINT FLAW)
FF SAW
FF SAW (BLACK INK OFFSET-PRINT FLAW)
WHITEOUT
WHITE BOX (not 100% sure this is not a form of a WO. I have seen 4+ like this and the surface appeared different than the WO)
WHITE SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
BLACK BOX ROUND LEFT BOX EDGE STRAIGHT LEFT VERTICAL LINE
BLACK BOX ROUND LEFT BOX EDGE JAGGED LEFT VERTICAL LINE
BLACK BOX STRAIGHT LEFT BOX EDGE
GLOSSY
BLACK BOX SIDE DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX TOP DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX RED DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX SAW CUT JAGGED RIGHT BOX EDGE
F SCRIBBLE
F SCRIBBLE (BLACK INK OFFSET- PRINT FLAW)
F SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
LOOP SCRIBBLE
LOOP SCRIBBLE SAW
LITE LOOP SCRIBBLE
LITE LOOP SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
BLACK BOX and a FF AUTO
FF MISSING INK (PRINT FLAW)
-SHEETS-
BBOX 132 CARD SHEET CLOSEUP
FF 132 CARD SHEET ( get pic)
ROUND EDGE STRAIGHT LINE FULL BBOX panel
ROUND EDGE JAGGED LINE panel
FF panel
LOOP panel
-RACKS-
LOOP
F SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
FF SAW
BLACK BOX/SHEFFIELD
FF/BAINES
FF/SABO
FF/BIGGIO
FF/GREENWELL
-CELLO-
FRONT
BACK
FF 8 (HAVE 2)
FF 9 (HAVE 2)
F SCRIBBLE
SAW CUTS
The intent of the cut was not to remove the offending words. The FF was on the bottom of the sheet. While the sheets were stacked on pallets the maintanence man ran a saw up the cards. Sometimes more than once. This was done to mark the cards to make them easily identifiable once the sheets were cut and then the cards could be pulled out before packout. Some slipped by (more than "some") and many more were backdoored. I know a guy who was buying them for $5 ea from a lady who hid them in her bra.
They cut more than the FF version. I assume this was done to "clean up" once the final version was made, the Black Box.
The saw cut is available in different lengths, placement and allegadely in width. Though I have only seen one wider that was not done from multiple cuts overlapping.
Since this is a version that could easily be replicated they hold little value for most cut versions. Some like the White Scribble are rare and the sell price reflects that.
www.billripken.com
Saw Cut articles-
Article
Another
MYTHS-
It says Rick Face- Not true. Beckett coined that term in 1989 to keep their image clean when referring to the card.
The FF version is rare-Not true. Beckett estimated around 80,000+ were released. They later said over 100,000. By todays standards, that's not rare.
Saw cuts are fake-Not true. Some might of been forged but evidence proves more than 4 saw cut versions were made.
Factory sealed sets might have rare versions-Not true. From talking to many collectors that have cracked sets and a old article in SCD and a old and new one in Beckett, the factory sets were created late in print run and will have the Black Box.
B/W Test card is real-Not true. These are not officially licensed Fleer cards. Evidence is a SCD article saying that and a mention by Beckett as well. Along with a pic of the sheet the scammers used avail. on the website. Big Thank you to Bill Haelig for that picture.
Whiteouts are all fake. Not true. They were made and confirmed by Fleer, but there is forgeries.
Black Box is rare- Not true. A term many on ebay use to trick people into buying their cards, truth is the Black Box was douple printed and not rare at all.
Packs for 1989 Fleer often say " Get a Bill Ripken" etc. Truth is, some legit sealed 1989 Fleer boxes/cases will not have any Bill Ripkens. (For reasoning see saw cut mention above)
I'll update as time allows.
4 or more versions were left off. Will post once confirmed legit and/or my buddy obtains them.
ODDBALL
FAKE
VERSIONS & MISC.
FF
FF (BLACK INK OFFSET-PRINT FLAW)
FF SAW
FF SAW (BLACK INK OFFSET-PRINT FLAW)
WHITEOUT
WHITE BOX (not 100% sure this is not a form of a WO. I have seen 4+ like this and the surface appeared different than the WO)
WHITE SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
BLACK BOX ROUND LEFT BOX EDGE STRAIGHT LEFT VERTICAL LINE
BLACK BOX ROUND LEFT BOX EDGE JAGGED LEFT VERTICAL LINE
BLACK BOX STRAIGHT LEFT BOX EDGE
GLOSSY
BLACK BOX SIDE DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX TOP DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX RED DOT (PRINT FLAW)
BLACK BOX SAW CUT JAGGED RIGHT BOX EDGE
F SCRIBBLE
F SCRIBBLE (BLACK INK OFFSET- PRINT FLAW)
F SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
LOOP SCRIBBLE
LOOP SCRIBBLE SAW
LITE LOOP SCRIBBLE
LITE LOOP SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
BLACK BOX and a FF AUTO
FF MISSING INK (PRINT FLAW)
-SHEETS-
BBOX 132 CARD SHEET CLOSEUP
FF 132 CARD SHEET ( get pic)
ROUND EDGE STRAIGHT LINE FULL BBOX panel
ROUND EDGE JAGGED LINE panel
FF panel
LOOP panel
-RACKS-
LOOP
F SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE
WHITE SCRIBBLE SAW CUT
FF SAW
BLACK BOX/SHEFFIELD
FF/BAINES
FF/SABO
FF/BIGGIO
FF/GREENWELL
-CELLO-
FRONT
BACK
FF 8 (HAVE 2)
FF 9 (HAVE 2)
F SCRIBBLE
SAW CUTS
The intent of the cut was not to remove the offending words. The FF was on the bottom of the sheet. While the sheets were stacked on pallets the maintanence man ran a saw up the cards. Sometimes more than once. This was done to mark the cards to make them easily identifiable once the sheets were cut and then the cards could be pulled out before packout. Some slipped by (more than "some") and many more were backdoored. I know a guy who was buying them for $5 ea from a lady who hid them in her bra.
They cut more than the FF version. I assume this was done to "clean up" once the final version was made, the Black Box.
The saw cut is available in different lengths, placement and allegadely in width. Though I have only seen one wider that was not done from multiple cuts overlapping.
Since this is a version that could easily be replicated they hold little value for most cut versions. Some like the White Scribble are rare and the sell price reflects that.
www.billripken.com
Saw Cut articles-
Article
Another
MYTHS-
It says Rick Face- Not true. Beckett coined that term in 1989 to keep their image clean when referring to the card.
The FF version is rare-Not true. Beckett estimated around 80,000+ were released. They later said over 100,000. By todays standards, that's not rare.
Saw cuts are fake-Not true. Some might of been forged but evidence proves more than 4 saw cut versions were made.
Factory sealed sets might have rare versions-Not true. From talking to many collectors that have cracked sets and a old article in SCD and a old and new one in Beckett, the factory sets were created late in print run and will have the Black Box.
B/W Test card is real-Not true. These are not officially licensed Fleer cards. Evidence is a SCD article saying that and a mention by Beckett as well. Along with a pic of the sheet the scammers used avail. on the website. Big Thank you to Bill Haelig for that picture.
Whiteouts are all fake. Not true. They were made and confirmed by Fleer, but there is forgeries.
Black Box is rare- Not true. A term many on ebay use to trick people into buying their cards, truth is the Black Box was douple printed and not rare at all.
Packs for 1989 Fleer often say " Get a Bill Ripken" etc. Truth is, some legit sealed 1989 Fleer boxes/cases will not have any Bill Ripkens. (For reasoning see saw cut mention above)
0
Comments
<< <i>That's cool of you to post all these versions. What is the story /logic behind the strip cut version? I'm assuming it's a factory mistake? At first I assumed that fleer was trying to cut out the ff part but the cut part isn't obscuring it at all. >>
Glad you enjoy it. Saw cut info. added above.
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George Brett Master Set
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<< <i>Thanks for sharing. I have heard many versions of how the vulgarity was actually written on Ripken's bat and I imagine I am one of the last people on earth who doesn't know the real truth about it. Can you enlighten me? That is, how did it really happen? Thanks in advance. Bobby >>
UPDATE - Bill Ripken admits to CNBC he wrote on bat
Follow Up Story
In 1989 it was quoted multiple times as Bill saying it was a prank done by his teammates. Over the years I have heard rumors it was Fleer or Greenwell. From what I have learned, Greenwell cant read or write (I'm just kidding). I have no facts either way on him. I was also told it was Cal. I quickly dismissed both, due to lack of evidence. I was told by an X-Mgmt. employee at Fleer (Ted Taylor) that the owners (Quakers) were deeply embarrased by this error and it was one of the reasons they shortly after sold the company. So the finger then points to Bill. I have many interviews in print that he says it was a joke by teammates. Then in 2006 April/May ? XM I was told he had a interview on XM radio where he admitted it was him who wrote it. He used to write on his BP bats and accidentally grabbed the wrong one. I dont have XM radio so I am/was unable to confim this was said. When my buddy asked Bill where the bat is he smiled/smirked. Hopefully this infamous bat is still around as I hope it pops up somewhere one day. (Take a pic with the FF bat, $20
I have compared handwriting and really want more samples. I need to get a F from him.
UCK CE
UCK ACE
UCK AC
So unfortunately, all I have is assumptions that Bill wrote it. If I can ever get ahold of that XM interview and confirm, I can put this part to rest.
I have Bill's address and for some strange reason I have yet to write him. It is one of the 1st questions I'll ask and I'm sure he has heard it 1000x but hopefully he replies to me as he is aware of the website and has visited it on occasion.
Really interesting stuff about who actually wrote on the knob. I remember hearing the story that Billy had been the victim of a practical joke, and I had always believed that. But IMO, your handwriting evidence clearly proves that Billy did it himself.
thanks for posting all of this and feuling our fires to rip more 89 Fleer. Who knows...before too long, it might not be so cheap anymore.
Great.
Glad everyone like the info. I have more to add and will do so when time allows.
thanks for sharing
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Need info on this !! Counterfeit? Another run? I've never seen another 'Big R'
<< <i>I think I heard about the same ones. Wanted $1500. Nuts. Even if WO was a PSA 10. >>
yeah most of the guys at the show were way out there on pricing, helped me out a lot, since Bill and I were fair with pricing we probably outsold most other dealers 3x.
I'll add more as time allows.