Mantle 1952 Topps for $2K?

vladguerrero · August 17, 2009 10:55PM

eBay link

The seller is very explicit that this is a reprint, looks like a BIG error then? Check the slab, for $2K someone took a stab at it.

WinPitcher · August 17, 2009 10:58PM

This is a good example of a scammer trying to scam a scammer.

Someone IMO is greedy and is tryring to get something for nothing.

Steve

OAKESY25 · August 17, 2009 11:03PM

someone is gonna end up paying a lot more for that card... in the very near future

scooter729 · August 17, 2009 11:22PM

Label looks bad on the card - whole thing is fake.

Someone just took the cert # for a real Mantle and printed it on a fake label. Hope no real money is lost on this scam.

PoppaJ · August 17, 2009 11:25PM

The seller likes Mantle Reprints!, especially Raw 52 Topps Mantle RPs!

But he can't be all bad .... he patronizes CU Board Members!

PoppaJ

strangecreature · August 17, 2009 11:28PM

The card looks real to me. What a bargain. The buyer can turn around and sell it for 10 grand or more.

PoppaJ · August 17, 2009 11:33PM

<< Label looks bad on the card - whole thing is fake.

Someone just took the cert # for a real Mantle and printed it on a fake label. Hope no real money is lost on this scam. >>

/////////////////////////////

I hope the guy that asked if he could pay with a money order didn't win it!

Check out these Qs & As!.

PoppaJ

nam812 · August 17, 2009 11:52PM

The title is clear and the description is clear. The picture is fraudulent.

strangecreature · August 17, 2009 11:52PM

<< The seller likes Mantle Reprints!, especially Raw 52 Topps Mantle RPs!

But he can't be all bad .... he patronizes CU Board Members!

PoppaJ >>

BUSTED!!

The guy is clearly a scammer. Nice research. This seller needs to be removed.

lsutigers1973 · August 18, 2009 12:04AM

<< But he can't be all bad .... he patronizes CU Board Members! >>

OMG! I just shipped that card to him yesterday.

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 1:16AM

I sent the seller an email asking how he thinks it is not real. Also, I asked him if the one in the picture is the one the winner will receive. He replied with this:

Hi there - the card in the picture is the EXACT card you will receive. Not sure about the serial #. My friend who is VERY familiar with the 1952 topps issue said he's "99.999%" sure this is a reproduction and that the case or label must have been tampered with somehow.

- ben.cat

Good thing I didn't pull the trigger on this one!

NickM · August 18, 2009 1:25AM

I think we have a new fake created by the same group that made the Craigslist fakes ('56 Mantle PSA 8, '34 Goudey Gehrig PSA 6, etc.). The label font looks like one of theirs.

Nick

WinPitcher · August 18, 2009 1:55AM

Whatever it is, do people really believe they can get a 52 Mantle for that price?

Steve

nam812 · August 18, 2009 2:00AM

I understand the scam is that he shouts reprint, but leaves the tiniest hints to make you think there's a .0000001% chance it's legit. I guess some people are stupid enough to think they can find a diamond up a goat's ass.

PoppaJ · August 18, 2009 2:20AM

<< a diamond up a goat's ass. >>

///////////////////////////

Thanks for THAT visual, Nick!

PoppaJ

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 4:02AM

NickM,
Good call on the label font. I looked at this card for almost an hour before it ended and didn't think to check the font on the label. I still have the auction in my watch list and just took another look at it. Nice call!

By the way, does anyone have the 52 Mantle with the cert number 04337638? Would be interesting to see if someone had that one or if they know "theirs" is being sold right now.

WinPitcher · August 18, 2009 4:06AM

Trevmo yes, someone does own a Mantle with that cert number.

That is one of the problems, the scammers use a legit cert number.

They take an empty slab, create a cert (using a legit number) insert a reprint and then hope

someone almost as greedy as themselves bids on it.

Steve

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 4:11AM

Thanks Steve. I'm guessing this happens quite a few times with the high dollar stuff? That would suck to buy a "PSA" slab and later find out that it is a fake. PSA needs to come up with some other security features pretty soon if this keeps happening.

On the other hand, I don't feel bad for the guy who bought it. He is probably going to try to sell it for much more than he bought it. Sucks to be the next guy in line.

joestalin · August 18, 2009 4:16AM

please you all are the experts, 98% of the raw public are more stupid than you all. The guy who bought that is going to make a TON. How many average
joes at a card show are going to be able to spot that that card is fake, epecially if its in a legit PSA holder?

One of you has said that the label looks bad, well it looks fine to me, has anyone been able to tell just by looking at the card that it is fake...I mean pretend
that the guy didn't say it was fake and pretend you didn't see what the card sold for.

If I'm sitting a card show and a guy comes in with some story that his dad just died and be needs to sell this to pay for a burial, how are you going to be able
to tell its fake?

Thanks
Kevin

WinPitcher · August 18, 2009 4:20AM

please you all are the experts, 98% of the raw public are more stupid than you.

Well said. (eyeroll)

Steve

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 4:21AM

Good point Joe. You always start to look for the flaws as soon as you hear it is fake, reprint, etc... I'm not sure what I would do if I saw it at a show and he fed me some story like that. But I do think it would be a little easier to find flaws in person rather than on a computer screen. Maybe the buyer gets the card in the mail and knows right away that its fake. Either way, I think he bought the card for a specific reason and I dont think "adding it to his collection" is that reason.

WinPitcher · August 18, 2009 4:23AM

Plus if you are at the show and can see it in hand you can tell the slab was tampered with.

one last point, 52 mantles are not cards that you buy over the internet from someone that you don't know.

You buy it from a legit dealer over the internet. That fake would not pass the smell test to 98 % or more of the dealers at a show.

Steve

joestalin · August 18, 2009 4:59AM

but if you can tamper with a PSA slab then doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? If one card can be faked why do I need to believe that anything in a PSA
holder is real? I can't open a 250 dollar nintendo wii without peeling off security tape that goes over the top and bottom, but I can crack a slab holding a
10,000 dollar card without anyone knowing?

I collect modern cards, you all know that, and sure there are plenty of scams there too, but the rediculous prices poople pay for PSA's "numbers" is really
stupid when there is NO real assurance that whats in the slab is real.

How hard is it to make a slab that automatically cracks when tampered with? Wouldn't you all pay that if you were submitting a 52 Mantle?

but in the end its really not about authentication is it, its all about making money?

unacceptable!

Kevin

joestalin · August 18, 2009 5:05AM

This taken straight off the website:

Another great advantage to buying graded sportscards is that the cards are sealed in a special plastic holder so no one can switch the card or dispute the grade after it changes hands a few times. For example, if you were to buy an ungraded card through the mail, how do you know that you are getting the same card that you saw in the advertisement? With graded cards, you never have that problem. Each graded card comes with its own serial number and the holders cannot be opened without destroying the holder entirely. No card switching can occur with this system in place. Again, because the cards are placed in secure holders with a grade assigned, it doesn't matter how many times the card changes hands. The grade will follow the card wherever it goes so, when you decide to sell your card back to the same dealer you bought it from, he cannot tell you that the card is now two grades lower. Grading puts the power in your hands.

So are you telling me this isn't true?

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 5:18AM

Joe, you make really good points. I purchased a 79 OPC Ozzie Smith and when i got it in the mail the PSA case had never been sealed. I was able to open it easily and take the card out if i wanted to. granted, it was only a PSA 4 and i paid about 10 bucks for it or so. either way, right when i held it in my hand i could feel that something was up with the case.

and another good point about the nintendo's having security tape. thats a sure way to tell if the thing has been opened. It's 2009 and technology is a son of a... PSA should be able to come up with a sure fire way to prevent this stuff.

IJustLoveCards · August 18, 2009 5:22AM

<< Plus if you are at the show and can see it in hand you can tell the slab was tampered with.

one last point, 52 mantles are not cards that you buy over the internet from someone that you don't know.

You buy it from a legit dealer over the internet. That fake would not pass the smell test to 98 % or more of the dealers at a show.

Steve >>

I think If I sold mine people would know it was legit, but steve you are correct for the most part dealers are the way to go. I would like to add one final point,

If you are going to buy a card of that nature, why not goto a show where psa was, have them look at the card, tell you its legit, I mean for 25.00 on a 10K plus purchase its the only way to go.

Now this card will be sold to some unsusecting person in 60 days when the listing can't be seen and it will sell for 15K on ebay, and ebay will love it because they get the money.

The seller will claim they had "no idea" it wasnt real...mark my words when the unsuspecting buyer finds out they were had.

storm888 · August 18, 2009 5:35AM

"...How hard is it to make a slab that automatically cracks when tampered with?..."

////////////////////////

ALL TPG-slabs should be mfgd to SHATTER when tampered with.

Seems like such a simple fix, yet the problems continue.

.............

The subject card was listed in the wrong category, too. (TOS violation.)

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Cards > Baseball-MLB > Singles (1950-59) > Graded > PSA

Trevmo · August 18, 2009 6:04AM

The next person in line is gonna be pretty pissed to find out it isnt real. It sucks because he or she doesn't even know we are having this discussion about the "soon to be" card purchase. The unsuspecting buyer is going to think he got the deal of a lifetime when he buys it for 15K instead of low 20K like real PSA 5 Mantles.

In the end, I hope this doesn't become the end of this hobby. I would hate to sell off all my PSA's because of crap like this.

storm888 · August 18, 2009 6:10AM

The FRAUDULENT listing can still be reported to EBAY, even though it has ended.

mtcards · August 18, 2009 6:27AM

<< prices poople pay for PSA's >>

An unintentional Freuidian slip perhaps?

WinPitcher · August 18, 2009 6:56AM

All the more reason to know who you buy from Kevin.

If you want to buy a 10k card from some jamoke on ebay for 1k
then you might run into problems down the road.

Steve

stevek · August 18, 2009 7:21AM

<< This is a good example of a scammer trying to scam a scammer.

Someone IMO is greedy and is tryring to get something for nothing.

Steve >>

exactly right - except the "nothing" is nineteen hundred dollars

strangecreature · August 18, 2009 7:59AM

<< "...

.............

The subject card was listed in the wrong category, too. (TOS violation.)

Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Cards > Baseball-MLB > Singles (1950-59) > Graded > PSA >>

Not only that, but it is against ebay policy to sell reprint cards because of copyright infringment. Usually the auction gets poofed but this was only a one-day auction because the seller probably knew ebay would remove it.

storm888 · August 18, 2009 8:54AM

There are THOUSANDS of reprints listed on EBAY.

While they have alternately included/eliminated the "reprint" card-sub-cat
in the newest SYIF, the check-box "reprint" remains in the "item specifics"
menu.

Though, EBAY makes many notes that their recited prohibitions are not
"exhaustive," their TOS does not preclude "reprints" of cards. The TOS
restricts or prohibits MANY kinds of reprints that are covered by non-copyright
law, but not specifically cards that do not contain an autograph.

Copyright complaints to EBAY - on non-electronic or non-fashion merch -
are usually only accepted for action if they come from the holder or his
representative.

................

I have no real problem with properly marked - and seller disclosed - reprints.

The card-example in this thread is offered to mislead both dummies and crooks.
And, it represents an assault on the integrity of the PSA brand and PSA slabs.

Underwraps · August 18, 2009 9:06AM

How hard is it to make a slab that automatically cracks when tampered with?>>>

Thats the one good thing about beckett holders they shatter in bits when you try to open them.

Psa has to find a better way of making there holders tamper proof.

The next buyer of this card can open up a whole new can of worms......Lawsuits anyone??

strangecreature · August 18, 2009 10:52AM

<< There are THOUSANDS of reprints listed on EBAY.

>>

True but its no where what it used to be. They are usually one-day auctions because ebay will remove them when someone reports the item.

Mantle 1952 Topps for $2K?

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