I've purchased from him before and he is at least .5 grade too high This Mays card, w/ it's t-b centering, gets a 7 at best PSA 8s regularly sell for $50 I don't know how anyone justifies this Last week, he sold a raw NMT '71 Munson for $500+ mays
I remember a thread regarding rumors that he was a shiller. Judging by THIS, I am inclined to believe it. 50 items bid on in last 30 days and 100% with this seller?
I understand he has shillers and will always get away with it. But, how the hell do you get away with shilling a $15-20 card up to $150 and not go over the high bidder?
I never trust sellers that have bible passages quoted within their ebay listings. A 99% sure sign of a slimy person.
Well I don't know about 99% - but I've had prior dealings with this seller and they were far from satisfactory, but to his credit he has a return policy but after returning the described NM-Mint or Mint cards he advertised that were either re-colored, over-graded or trimmed he politely asked me to not bid on his cards again and told me that if you want NM-Mint or Mint cards that will grade PSA 8 and 9, then buy cards like that already graded PSA 8 and 9. I thought, "Wow! What a sad admission of not giving a rip about the accuracy of your grading". If there's one thing I know about the moral teachings of Jesus is that he demands his followers to be scrupulous beyond reproach.
Along those same lines, if you see, "Buy here! We do things right, and we work hard to earn your trust!" you should run for your lives.
I'm not totally convinced that this guy is shilling. I went back over 2 months of his feedbacks (past auctions) to try to find more examples of shilling and came up with zilch. Nothing even close.
To me, it seems that he has such a tremendous amount of loyal customers that many times are bidding against each other. These loyal customers are all receiving and sending feedbacks to the seller and visa versa (which usually doesn't happen consistently with shillers).
There were many cards that sold for the 99 cent opening bid that I would think a shiller wouldn't have let happen. But, to be the devil's advocate here, shrewd shillers might do this to disguise their evil ways.
The '73 Mays card looks like a 2-man bidding war to me. I've had buyers go wild a few times as I'm sure many of you have also. It happens!
If this guy is a Platinum PS, does he need to shill? Would he risk losing $25,000 to $100,000 a month in sales to shill?
I'm just not totally convinced at all about this guy.
<< <i>I never trust sellers that have bible passages quoted within their ebay listings. A 99% sure sign of a slimy person.
Well I don't know about 99% - but I've had prior dealings with this seller and they were far from satisfactory, but to his credit he has a return policy but after returning the described NM-Mint or Mint cards he advertised that were either re-colored, over-graded or trimmed he politely asked me to not bid on his cards again and told me that if you want NM-Mint or Mint cards that will grade PSA 8 and 9, then buy cards like that already graded PSA 8 and 9. I thought, "Wow! What a sad admission of not giving a rip about the accuracy of your grading". If there's one thing I know about the moral teachings of Jesus is that he demands his followers to be scrupulous beyond reproach.
Along those same lines, if you see, "Buy here! We do things right, and we work hard to earn your trust!" you should run for your lives. >>
I agree Dan. I bought from him a few times several years ago and got sick of the trimmed and recolored cards. He has way too high a percentage to be randomly seeded through collections he bought. I bought a '75 set from him and a handful of the stars were recolored. Recolored! Who bothers to recolor '75s? It's not like it's as easy as taking a marker to '71s. Someone had to take a great deal of time to find markers that matched the different colors of the '75s.
I agree Dan. I bought from him a few times several years ago and got sick of the trimmed and recolored cards. He has way too high a percentage to be randomly seeded through collections he bought. I bought a '75 set from him and a handful of the stars were recolored. Recolored! Who bothers to recolor '75s? It's not like it's as easy as taking a marker to '71s. Someone had to take a great deal of time to find markers that matched the different colors of the '75s.
Gemint,
My take on this guy is that he's a black hole for people who unload inferior collections or cards with problems. A case in point. He broke up a "Mint" '71 Topps Super Set that he claimed he got from a guy who just pulled them out of a major find of boxes and packs. I put low ball bids on them and surprisingly won 25 for an average price of $2.50 a piece - they were all commons except for a Gaylord Perry. I was initially pleased- at first glance since they appeared to be flawless - not a spec of wear. Then about a month later when PSA offered a Tall Boy Special, I took them out of the box and was going to put them in Card Saver IVs and noticed that all of the backs had these wrinkles around the perimeter of the cards. I wondered if it would effect the grade so I sent a mass e-mail out to all of the 71 Super collectors on the PSA registry. The e-mails came back one-by-one: "That will grade PSA 6 every time!" All 25 cards had this problem. Later at a major show I found two dealers that had complete sets for sale. I looked at them specifically to see if these had that problem. There were only a few in each set. My conclusion, the waverly82 break-up set was basically the "rejects" of the major find.
I still have the cards if someone wants to make me an offer. The fronts looks great.
The only reason to pay this amount of money is to get it graded. His stance on "if you wanted a PSA 8 or 9 buy it graded already" grading is comical as he is exploiting collectors trying to flip his cards into holders and turn a profit. Not all he sells are going to be graded as I am sure he has some raw dog collectors out there but that 71 Munson was obviously bought to grade.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
Buying: Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon 80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name" 90 ProSet Dexter Manley error 90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back 1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”) 81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat) 91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
One word.....Trust!!!! He has cultivated a loyal repeat clientele by offering a quality product with impeccable integrity on customer service issues. The proof is in the feedback and the continued execution on every auction. This is a great business model that is extremely successful. Give credit where it is applicable. Regards, B21
"impeccable integrity" might be a little strong I'm not sure I would feel comfortable selling a NM card for 3X NM/MT prices. I understand that he does not set the price, the buyer does. And there are stupid buyers out there. Yet his item descriptions over-sell the cards, IMO. His small print says he gives less weight to centering, and my question is 'why'? Why does centering not count? Isn't it one of the main grading criteria? That's like saying in small print, "I grade everything but corners" I think this is one of the reasons why an uninformed buyer will take the word of an experienced seller when they shouldn't - centering does matter very much in the final grade of the card.
I have bought from him in the past with mixed success. I rarely win as I keep my bids low. I assume any card will grade a 7 and bid accordingly; some have received 8s. I do not bid on 62s, 63s, or 71s for the reasons stated in this thread.
I don't think any seller has impeccable integrity when they sell trimmed and recolored cards ALL THE TIME. Using the excuse they came from a collection he bought is bogus as he should be able based on all the good cards he has to tell which are trimmed and recolored. Saying they are NM or Mint when they are in fact altered is fraud and lying which doesn't have much integrity in it.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
It's all relative. To collectors who only buy raw cards on ebay, and are conditioned to judge cards by the standards ebay sellers set, his cards obviously look pretty good. To us, they look like 7's with the occasional 8, but they are nicer than the overwhelming majority of raw cards on ebay.
As far as alterations, has anyone had a card rejected that wasn't from a colored-border set? All the late 50's and early 60's cards I've bought from him have graded, though none were from those sets already mentioned. If he was altering the cards himself, it seems like he would be altering everything.
Regarding his source, I always figured these big ebay raw sellers (waverly, klinger82, et al) were getting the bulk of their cards from auction houses, but that's just a guess.
Steve the reason why he has such a good return policy is to prevent negs and Paypal issues. I am sure he is getting alot of these by people who don't know what to look for. I am sure his return rate on his trimmed and altered stuff isn't 100%.
Also if you do send cards back to him he also blocks you from bidding or asks you not to bid anymore on his items.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
<< <i>Regarding his source, I always figured these big ebay raw sellers (waverly, klinger82, et al) were getting the bulk of their cards from auction houses, but that's just a guess. >>
I know that for the most part, Klinger buys his sets off the bay and gets graded what he thinks will grade high, then set breaks the rest of the set. I've been outbid on many sets to have him win them, then a few weeks to a month later, you'll see those cards on his set breaks.
I used to do pretty good with his 75 set breaks in terms of getting high grades, but lately he's been severely over grading.
I bought this card off him a couple of years ago, before I started visiting this board. I paid like $80 bucks for it. It's extremely sharp, but now I wonder if its been trimmed in any way.
Comments
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Always looking for Vintage Yankees & NASCAR
Eric
Steve
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
I'm working on a raw 73 set, and didn't bid on one card
because obviously his mint is not mint!!
What does he get? 10k to break a 73 set?!! JOKE
Steve
<< <i>And he has been doing it for years too.
Steve >>
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His FB is nearly clean.
toolhaus
I have no idea if he shills.
Sorry, I should have been more precise.
Steve
I never trust sellers that have bible passages quoted within their ebay listings. A 99% sure sign of a slimy person.
He could be in the 1% of good people however.
Well I don't know about 99% - but I've had prior dealings with this seller and they were far from satisfactory, but to his credit he has a return policy but after returning the described NM-Mint or Mint cards he advertised that were either re-colored, over-graded or trimmed he politely asked me to not bid on his cards again and told me that if you want NM-Mint or Mint cards that will grade PSA 8 and 9, then buy cards like that already graded PSA 8 and 9. I thought, "Wow! What a sad admission of not giving a rip about the accuracy of your grading". If there's one thing I know about the moral teachings of Jesus is that he demands his followers to be scrupulous beyond reproach.
Along those same lines, if you see, "Buy here! We do things right, and we work hard to earn your trust!" you should run for your lives.
Those that buy to get graded, see that it won't grade what he claimed and use the refund.
Those that try to get them graded and used up the return time I suppose just chalk it up?
Steve
To me, it seems that he has such a tremendous amount of loyal customers that many times are bidding against each other. These loyal customers are all receiving and sending feedbacks to the seller and visa versa (which usually doesn't happen consistently with shillers).
There were many cards that sold for the 99 cent opening bid that I would think a shiller wouldn't have let happen. But, to be the devil's advocate here, shrewd shillers might do this to disguise their evil ways.
The '73 Mays card looks like a 2-man bidding war to me. I've had buyers go wild a few times as I'm sure many of you have also. It happens!
If this guy is a Platinum PS, does he need to shill? Would he risk losing $25,000 to $100,000 a month in sales to shill?
I'm just not totally convinced at all about this guy.
JMHO,
PoppaJ
<< <i>I never trust sellers that have bible passages quoted within their ebay listings. A 99% sure sign of a slimy person.
Well I don't know about 99% - but I've had prior dealings with this seller and they were far from satisfactory, but to his credit he has a return policy but after returning the described NM-Mint or Mint cards he advertised that were either re-colored, over-graded or trimmed he politely asked me to not bid on his cards again and told me that if you want NM-Mint or Mint cards that will grade PSA 8 and 9, then buy cards like that already graded PSA 8 and 9. I thought, "Wow! What a sad admission of not giving a rip about the accuracy of your grading". If there's one thing I know about the moral teachings of Jesus is that he demands his followers to be scrupulous beyond reproach.
Along those same lines, if you see, "Buy here! We do things right, and we work hard to earn your trust!" you should run for your lives. >>
I agree Dan. I bought from him a few times several years ago and got sick of the trimmed and recolored cards. He has way too high a percentage to be randomly seeded through collections he bought. I bought a '75 set from him and a handful of the stars were recolored. Recolored! Who bothers to recolor '75s? It's not like it's as easy as taking a marker to '71s. Someone had to take a great deal of time to find markers that matched the different colors of the '75s.
<< <i>8 oc.
I never trust sellers that have bible passages quoted within their ebay listings. A 99% sure sign of a slimy person.
He could be in the 1% of good people however. >>
God bless you all! The Lord loves you. John 3:16.
I know we've beaten this issue to death, especially around people leaving biblical verses in my feedback, but I tend to agree with you.
Steve
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
"Jesus wept."
Go Phillies
I agree Dan. I bought from him a few times several years ago and got sick of the trimmed and recolored cards. He has way too high a percentage to be randomly seeded through collections he bought. I bought a '75 set from him and a handful of the stars were recolored. Recolored! Who bothers to recolor '75s? It's not like it's as easy as taking a marker to '71s. Someone had to take a great deal of time to find markers that matched the different colors of the '75s.
Gemint,
My take on this guy is that he's a black hole for people who unload inferior collections or cards with problems. A case in point. He broke up a "Mint" '71 Topps Super Set that he claimed he got from a guy who just pulled them out of a major find of boxes and packs. I put low ball bids on them and surprisingly won 25 for an average price of $2.50 a piece - they were all commons except for a Gaylord Perry. I was initially pleased- at first glance since they appeared to be flawless - not a spec of wear. Then about a month later when PSA offered a Tall Boy Special, I took them out of the box and was going to put them in Card Saver IVs and noticed that all of the backs had these wrinkles around the perimeter of the cards. I wondered if it would effect the grade so I sent a mass e-mail out to all of the 71 Super collectors on the PSA registry. The e-mails came back one-by-one: "That will grade PSA 6 every time!" All 25 cards had this problem. Later at a major show I found two dealers that had complete sets for sale. I looked at them specifically to see if these had that problem. There were only a few in each set. My conclusion, the waverly82 break-up set was basically the "rejects" of the major find.
I still have the cards if someone wants to make me an offer. The fronts looks great.
Dan
RIP GURU
Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
I'm not sure I would feel comfortable selling a NM card for 3X NM/MT prices. I understand that he does not set the price, the buyer does. And there are stupid buyers out there.
Yet his item descriptions over-sell the cards, IMO.
His small print says he gives less weight to centering, and my question is 'why'?
Why does centering not count? Isn't it one of the main grading criteria? That's like saying in small print, "I grade everything but corners"
I think this is one of the reasons why an uninformed buyer will take the word of an experienced seller when they shouldn't - centering does matter very much in the final grade of the card.
As far as alterations, has anyone had a card rejected that wasn't from a colored-border set? All the late 50's and early 60's cards I've bought from him have graded, though none were from those sets already mentioned. If he was altering the cards himself, it seems like he would be altering everything.
Regarding his source, I always figured these big ebay raw sellers (waverly, klinger82, et al) were getting the bulk of their cards from auction houses, but that's just a guess.
///////////////////////////////////
Can there really be so many stupid buyers?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only if the person knows for a fact that they are altered.
If a person has no idea and accepts returns I see no fraud.
Steve
Also if you do send cards back to him he also blocks you from bidding or asks you not to bid anymore on his items.
As for Waverly I have no idea what he does do or does not do.
I once returned a card to him and I was not blocked.
Steve
////////////////////////
A few months ago, I was playing with some magik-markers,
some watercolor paints, and a black light.
Even the least sophisticated person I asked to play was
able to find the altered cards everytime.
I'm sure too, I think I said as much on page 1 of this thread.
Steve
<< <i>Regarding his source, I always figured these big ebay raw sellers (waverly, klinger82, et al) were getting the bulk of their cards from auction houses, but that's just a guess. >>
I know that for the most part, Klinger buys his sets off the bay and gets graded what he thinks will grade high, then set breaks the rest of the set. I've been outbid on many sets to have him win them, then a few weeks to a month later, you'll see those cards on his set breaks.
I used to do pretty good with his 75 set breaks in terms of getting high grades, but lately he's been severely over grading.