Vick's interview on '60 minutes' what did you think?
rbdjr1
Posts: 4,474 ✭✭
NEW YORK -- Michael Vick says he cried in prison because of the guilt he felt about being involved in dogfighting, and was disgusted with himself for allowing it to happen.
In an interview with "60 Minutes" that aired Sunday night, Vick said the day he walked into prison he realized "the magnitude of the decisions that I made.
AP Photo/CBS News/60 MINUTES
"I let myself down, you know, not being out on the football field, being in a prison bed, in a prison bunk, writing letters home," Michael Vick said in an interview aired Sunday on CBS.
"And, you know, it's no way of, you know, explaining, you know, the hurt and the guilt that I felt. And that was the reason I cried so many nights. And that put it all into perspective," he said.
A three-time Pro Bowl pick during six seasons with the Atlanta Falcons, Vick served 18 months in federal prison for running a dogfighting ring and was reinstated last month by the NFL after being out of action since 2006.
He signed with the Philadelphia Eagles on Thursday.
"I let myself down, you know, not being out on the football field, being in a prison bed, in a prison bunk, writing letters home, you know," he said. "That wasn't my life. That wasn't the way that things was supposed to be. And all because of the so-called culture that I thought was right -- that I thought it was cool. And I thought it was, you know, it was fun, and it was exciting at the time. It all led to me laying in a prison bunk by myself with no one to talk to but myself."
Vick said he blamed only himself for landing in prison and deserved to lose the $135 million contract that made him the NFL's highest paid player.
"I was disgusted, you know, because of what I let happen to those animals," he said. "I could've put a stop to it. I could've walked away from it. I could've shut the whole operation down."
Vick said he initially lied about being involved in dogfighting because he realized his career was in jeopardy.
"I felt the guilt and I knew I was guilty, and I knew what I had done," he said. "And, not knowing at the time that, you know, actually telling the truth may have been better than, you know, not being honest. And it backfired on me tremendously."
Vick also admitted that his reputation as a player that didn't work hard and relied mostly on his athletic ability was warranted.
"I was lazy. You know, I was the last guy in the building, first guy out," Vick said. "I know that. You know, I hear everything that people say. And that hurt me when I heard that, but I know it was true."
Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press
Pink Floyd - Money Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
0
Comments
Vick also admitted that his reputation as a player that didn't work hard and relied mostly on his athletic ability was warranted.
"I was lazy. You know, I was the last guy in the building, first guy out," Vick said. "I know that. You know, I hear everything that people say. And that hurt me when I heard that, but I know it was true."
edit: ...he better be the first guy in and the last guy out in Phila!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
some want to say humble, i want to say smug.....but, he was arrogant enough to believe that he could do or say anything and he will need that arrogance to stay healthy in football.
1. There is a reason James Brown is not a regular on 60 Minutes. Youch.
2. Vick in completely devoid of a moral compass and is mentally and emotionally incapable of feeling or expressing regret, which is likely the result of his childhood in the projects. This interview was a stupid idea on the part of his handlers. But I guess so was permitting him to engage in dogfighting for seven years.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Sports Talk forum
<< <i>One thought:
Sports Talk forum >>
<< <i>and was disgusted with himself for allowing it to happen. >>
I'm no psychologist but "IT?"
This - IMO - is a subtle was of avoiding true guilt for perpetrating a very heinous act - cruelty beyond anyone's comprehension.
I saw tapes of what these people do - I wish I hadn't. It's hard to get it out of my mind.
Can Vick do good?
Yes - because in spite of himself and his "apparent" lack of true contrition can be the poster child for animal abuse.
I still think he needs counseling - animal abuse of this magnitude is the "first" step in becoming a serial killer.
He's waivered his rights to a job in the NFL IMO. But, the fans will be the final word in Philly.
mike
friggin leonard little & dontae stallworth killed humans, not dogs, and i don't remember them being on 60 minutes?
get real
j
RIP GURU
<< <i>
<< <i>One thought:
Sports Talk forum >>
Maybe, but there has been a handful of postings on this thread already, and dialogue from regulars who post here. So IMO, it was appropriate to post here about Vick.
rd
edit: In case you feel you want to continue about Vick on "Sports Talk Forum". This was the "Sports Talk Forum" thread about: ...Vick signing with the Eagles ...If you want to "talk Eagles and Vick's role as a player, maybe the sports talk forum is the proper venue? But I believe there have been passionate, interesting, important discussions on a handful of threads right here! IMHO, let them continue here!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
Vick directly killed, mamed and brutalized these animals on purpose for fun. That is a WAY different mindset and thing to do. He also ran a gambling ring and tried to hide the money. A more apporpriate comparison is to Rae Caruth who is in jail for life correct? Isn't Vick walking free?
The penalties for killing humans on purpose are much harsher than killing animals on purpose.
The penalties for killing humans on accident are much harsher than killing animals on accident (like almost 0).
There is a difference in magnitude of offense.
Stallworth got a 1 year ban from the NFL, Vick got what 3 games?
Note the word "Longevity" in the Title of this 2004 Vick issue!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>Leonard Little and Stallworth's actions caused people to die from their carelessness and negligence in driving while drunk. Neither wanted, or tried to kill anyone it was the result of an accident.
Vick directly killed, mamed and brutalized these animals on purpose for fun. That is a WAY different mindset and thing to do. He also ran a gambling ring and tried to hide the money. A more apporpriate comparison is to Rae Caruth who is in jail for life correct? Isn't Vick walking free?
The penalties for killing humans on purpose are much harsher than killing animals on purpose.
The penalties for killing humans on accident are much harsher than killing animals on accident (like almost 0).
There is a difference in magnitude of offense.
Stallworth got a 1 year ban from the NFL, Vick got what 3 games? >>
Vick spent 2 1/2 years in jail. Stallworth got 20 days in jail. I don't see anyone saying Stallworth should never play again in the NFL.
And please don't say drunk driving is an accident. I'm sure Little and Stallworth knew they were drunk before they got behind the wheel of their cars. You make it sound like they ran a stop sign.
He showed no remorse during that whole interview. The only thing he was sorry for, was ending up in jail for getting caught. Even talking about dogfighting last night you could hear enthusiasm in his voice. The only thing sorrier last night was the softball questions given by James Brown ( which i said would be a lovefest in the other thread--and i was right). "Who do you blame for this?", "Do you think what you did was wrong?" PLEEEEASSSEEEE. This is what you ask a 3 year old who took a marker to the wall.
<< <i>i disagree & think he deserves a 2nd chance,
friggin leonard little & dontae stallworth killed humans, not dogs, and i don't remember them being on 60 minutes?
get real
j >>
With all due respect - that's irrelevant.
We will disagree - and that's OK - I just think it's better to stay on target - being in the NFL is a privilege and not a right - and some people get to chose what acts negate that privilege. This is just my opinion.
It's no different than if a lawyer committs a crime and can not get a license anymore. That's something we all decide - free will.
This didn't happen "to" Mr Vick - he "did" these acts.
mike
and (for the record) i don't like vick or support him in anyway.
there is a direct correlation b/t why basketball & football players are in news for major screwups (ala: dog fighting, dui/manslaughter, handgun almost shooting off your own flashlight, etc..) vs baseball and hockey players.
j
RIP GURU
<< <i>One thought:
Sports Talk forum >>
Can't argue with that.
It's here so I'll talk about it.
Vick has gotten alot of attention here.
More than most substantive threads can only wish to attain.
mike
Reason why it's getting attention is --no one else has killed dogs.
in the sports world --that is, recently
His PR guys may well be doing the best that anybody could
do. They take their clients as they find them.
Two things that EVERY spin-doctor KNOWS is that the way to
save your client is to "get out in front of the problem" and to
"control the framing of the discussion."
It's pretty hard to get in front of a bus that your client drove
over himself three-years ago, AND it is not possible to frame a
discussion that a mob with pitchforks has already formulated.
Vick's PR team is faced with "changing the pace" of the events
that have already either unfolded or telegraphed their next
results. In tennis, when your opponent is constantly hitting the
ball into your face, the common tactic is to hit the ball high in the
air to "change the pace" and slow down the massacre.
LOTS of football fans - the PR guys' real target - will buy last
night's performance. FEW folks with a background in psych
studies will catch the wave.
Mike Vick failed to display empathy, last night. He was wooden
and, obvously, heavily coached in "the words," but the body
language, eye movement, and delivery gave the lie to his words.
wiki on empathy
Ted Bundy operated on the notion that "sincerity is the key to
success, once you can fake that you've got it made." He FULLY
understood empathetic concepts, but could not "feel" empathy
and was a master at using both the sympathy AND the empathy
of his victims against them.
Tiny kids learn/display empathy. If they don't by age three, their
parents are usually in for a lifelong rough ride.
The AP spin that
"Michael Vick says he cried in prison because of the guilt he felt about being involved in dogfighting, and was disgusted with himself for allowing it to happen...."
is true, but not accurate.
Play the tape and see that "dogfighting" was only ONE of the
circumstances that he claims he was crying about.
Folks wanted to hear/feel that he "gets it" as to why they don't
think harming animals is a good thing.
Words like, "I cannot believe that I harmed those poor sweet
critters AND I am heartily sorry and ashamed for having done
it," would have played best. It's uniquely Western, but folks
wanted to hear him say he UNDERSTOOD how those animals
felt; they wanted to see him "feel bad" for the animals.
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You," is
ALL about empathy. Maybe the guy's new LDS mentors can
drive that home to him. If they could ever get him to ask
himself, "How would I feel, if those dogs did that to me?,"
they will at least have a start at fixing him. I lack optimism.
Psychopaths, Sociopaths, and folks suffering Borderline Personality
Disorder are unlikely to EVER "feel empathy," but the good ones
at least learn how to fake it.
...........................
TERRIBLE TRIAD
There are three characteristics that are present in almost all serial killers during their childhood. These characteristics, known as the terrible triad, are bed-wetting, fire-starting and animal torture.
1. Bed-wetting - At least 60% of serial killers were wetting the bed past the age of 12.
2. Fire-starting - Otis Toole and Carl Panzram are two serial killers who started fires as children. Carl Panzram burned down the reformatory he was sent to. Toole set fire to a neighbors house. Fire fascination is an early manifestation of their obsession with destruction.
3. Animal torture- Many serial killers, before moving to human victims, start with small animals. Ed Kemper killed neighborhood cats. A dog's severed head was found on a stick in the woods near Jeffrey Dahmer's childhood home.
There is no guarantee that if all three conditions are present, the child will grow up to become a serial killer. They are early warning signs to be aware of.
30
///////////////////////
While I have few positive feelings for the guy, I definitely "feel" both empathy
and sympathy towards him.
I can't empathize with a person that chose to do such deeds and have no sympathy.
This was an ongoing string of events - he lived it for a long time.
If I had sympathy for him - then I would have to have sympathy for the guy who brutally killed his parents and is now an orphan.
mike
<< <i>Vick's interview on '60 minutes' what did you think? >>
F Vick.
///////////////////////
Actually, I am a notoriously semi-bad man.
My "empathy" simply means that I know how I would
feel if I had so foolishly gotten myself into such a mess.
The fact that I think I would "never" get into such a mess,
does not block me from grasping the feeling I would have
IF "never" became "now."
Sympathy springs from empathy. The guy is a pitiful mess.
The FACT that his SERIAL crimes are deplorably evil, does
not preclude pity.
And, "pity" should not be confused with "mercy." Since I
fully support capital punishment for drunk drivers, it is
fair to say that if it was up to me, we would not have
seen Vick anymore after he made his initial plea.
.......
Lots of poverty-stricken kids have - through acts they
themselves committed - ruined their teeth with Mountain
Dew and MoonPies.
As a dentist, you likely think how you would "feel" if you
were in that boat, and you "feel sorry" for those kids,
AND you are even willing to fix them.
In my view - formed after noting his actions - Vick is
"mentally ill." While I really don't think he can be "fixed,"
I feel sorry about that.
Vick was lost to the world a long time ago. Might have
been "the projects," or his parent(s), or physical issues
with his brain. Someday, science and public policy will
have the capacity to PREVENT most folks from ending
up like he has. Until then, all ordinary folks can do is
"feel sorry" that bad stuff happens.
Dunno what to think, was it because he wants to make millions again? or is it because he really is sincere?
Steve
<< <i>Robert hi. Dunno what to think, was it because he wants to make millions again? or is it because he really is sincere? Steve >>
Steve, think you are on to something?
Looks like Vick is really sincere.
Sincerely looking to make millions again!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
This was written back in May by Wayne Pacelle. Who is President & CEO of The Humane Society of the United States
May 21, 2009
More Thoughts on Michael Vick
By Wayne Pacelle (President/CEO of the © HSUS)
Our society has had a consensus view on dogfighting for a long time, with the first laws against the activity dating back to the mid-19th century. Civilized people have long despised dogfighting because they knew it was morally wrong to place animals in a pit to fight to the death for gambling and the thrill of the bloodletting.
But the case against Michael Vick dragged some other horrible dogfighting practices, like the violent culling of poor-performing dogs, into the light of day. These shocking practices fanned the ire of the public about what Vick and the other ringleaders at Bad Newz Kennels did. It almost made me sick to read the first-hand accounts and confessions of defendants and others after they told prosecutors what really happened in Surry County, Virginia.
But as I said yesterday, the end-game was never permanent exile for Michael Vick. It was successful prosecution and the imposition of appropriate penalties for a group of men who did terrible things. Our larger goal then and now was the eradication of dogfighting in America and throughout the world.
We can all be forever mad and angry at Michael Vick for what he did. But if that’s not channeled usefully and productively, then it does no good for animals. During the last two years, The Humane Society of the United States channeled the anger about Vick into 21 new strengthened state and federal laws against animal fighting, along with a host of other actions to combat cruelty. Last year, we were involved in a record-breaking 250 busts of animal fighting operations. That’s productive action for animals, taking a terrible case of cruelty and using it as momentum toward broader reform.
When it comes to dogfighting, a straight law enforcement approach is never going to solve the problem. The growth in dogfighting is occurring in inner cities, and it’s predominantly with young African American boys and men. That’s a fact, and we have to do something to arrest these social trends.
When Michael Vick asked to help, I was as skeptical as anyone. And then I put my strategist hat on, and tried to imagine what a guy like Vick could do to help us combat the problem. We used his case to strengthen the laws in America, and now we can use his celebrity and the story of his fall as a parable to reach kids in the cities who will pay attention to him.
In talking to Michael Vick, I also kept in the forefront of my mind our larger goal at The HSUS: protection of animals, by helping encourage individual people and institutions to change for the better in all of their dealings with animals.
I am not convinced yet. If this is simply a self-interested ploy to rehabilitate his image or return to football, we will find out soon enough, and we will repudiate it. But if Michael Vick is sincere, then we can, we must, use his story to advance our broader mission—saving lives and ending dogfighting.
Very few of us had it all together at a young age. We all have traveled a path and it’s been a process of awakening, awareness, and behavior modification. It took me a while before I made a commitment to change my diet and stop causing harm to animals through my purchasing practices, after I learned about factory farming abuses. And now today, The HSUS has within its ranks ex-trophy hunters, ex-trappers, and lots of folks who did pretty bad stuff at earlier points in life. We gave them a chance to help end some of the suffering they once caused, and they took it. In our innovative grassroots outreach programs we work with ex-dogfighters who are now ambassadors for The HSUS and show at-risk youth that change is possible. They are all welcome in our tent because The HSUS is about helping push people to do better for animals by changing their ways. You are welcome here if you are moving in the right direction. We don’t require you to be perfect.
Yes, Michael Vick has a long road to travel, since he did such terrible things to animals. But if we are to change society, we need to help people travel paths that now may look like an impossible climb. If we stick just with the easy cases, or if we work with folks that just have similar experiences to ours, or are in total agreement with our perspectives, then we’ll never get where we must go as a society.
When people travel a long, hard, and seemingly impossible path, that’s when we know we are winning.
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
"Molon Labe"
I didn't realize that the Humane Society of The United States played a significant role in Michael Vicks prosecution, conviction, lobbying to the Falcons to fire Vick, getting Nike to drop Vick, supplying a confidential informant to the government about Vick and more.
rd
Here's another article written by Wayne Pacelle, President and CEO of The Humane Society of the United States
May 20, 2009
What’s Next for Michael Vick?
There was nobody tougher on Michael Vick than The Humane Society of the United States. After sufficient facts came to light about the happenings at Bad Newz Kennels in Surry County, Virginia—the sometime residence of Vick that had morphed into a dogfighting staging ground—The HSUS urged state and federal authorities to prosecute him and we made a key confidential informant available to federal authorities, which proved vital to the case.
We also campaigned, along with others, to urge the Atlanta Falcons to drop Vick, the NFL to suspend him, and his corporate sponsors (such as Nike) to sever their ties. All of that happened, and the fuel that drove all of these actions was the rage and disgust that so many millions of Americans felt once the details came out.
Vick and the other three individuals at the vortex of the criminal network at Bad Newz should have been prosecuted and punished, and they were. They did horrible things.
Long before the Vick case, it was The HSUS, working with our allies in Congress led by Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Elton Gallegly, that drove the enactment of strong federal laws to crack down on animal fighting—banning any interstate or foreign transport of animals for fighting and upgrading penalties with amendments to the Animal Welfare Act in 2002. We worked on a further upgrade of the law in 2007 to make it a federal felony to move dogs across state lines. For years, we had been working with the law enforcement arm of the U.S. Department of Agriculture—the Office of Inspector General—sharing intelligence on animal fighting crimes, emphasizing the corrosive impact of animal fighting on our communities, and urging them to be more aggressive in investigating cases. When the Vick case came to light, these federal authorities grabbed the torch, especially after they saw the Surry County prosecutor failing to take action. For their leadership, we honored federal prosecutors and investigators in 2007 at our annual Law Enforcement Awards ceremony.
For The HSUS, dogfighting had long been a priority concern, and we knew it was an epidemic problem, especially in urban communities. But most people considered it a relic issue—a settled matter and a rare occurrence. The Vick case synced public sentiment with the scale of the problem, and dogfighting rightly reoccupied a priority slot on the animal protection agenda in America.
The HSUS tried to channel this energy in the aftermath of the Vick case, and we helped to pass a remarkable 21 new laws against animal fighting, including a third upgrade of the federal law. Thanks to our supporters, we amped up our rewards program and worked with state Attorneys General and other law enforcement agencies to advertise the program. We set up tip lines so we could gather other information. We established community-based programs to do outreach to young people at risk of getting enmeshed in the world of dogfighting. We expanded our training of law enforcement agents in investigation and prosecution of animal fighting crimes.
Last year, we were involved in more than 250 busts of animal fighting operations, both dogfighting and Co--ockfighting.
So with this record of action, I think I’d be the least likely guy to end up sitting at a small table and talking calmly with Michael Vick about his interest in working with us.
But when you step back and ponder it, we are actually the most logical place for him to go. We have the most developed programs on the issue, so if he’s sincere about making a difference, there’s no better place to land.
I sat with the man, but I still don’t know what’s in his heart. He told me he did terrible things to dogs. He said he grew up with dogfighting as a boy, and that he never sufficiently questioned it as he grew into manhood.
He said this experience has been a trauma and he’s changed forever. And he said he wants to show the American public that he is committed to helping combat this problem. He asked for an opportunity to help. I want to give him that opportunity. If he makes the most of it, and demonstrates a sincere, long-term commitment to the task, then it may prove to be a tipping point in our campaign to eradicate dogfighting. If he demonstrates a fleeting or superficial interest, then it will be his own failing, not ours. Our campaign will march forward regardless. It’s up to him, and we at The HSUS reserve judgment until he demonstrates that he’s part of the solution rather than a further part of the problem.
The HSUS End Dogfighting program mobilizes community members.
Maybe if there had been an intervention program in Newport News 15 years ago, a young Michael Vick would have grown to love and respect pit bulls, and he would not have done these terrible things to dogs. For me, it’s not about Michael Vick and providing endless punitive treatment. It’s about stopping other young people from going down the road Vick took. It’s about having kids today put down their break sticks and destroy their pit bull treadmills.
We’ve done a lot with the law, and with law enforcement, and that work continues. But the most urgent challenge we face is interrupting the cycle of violence that leads kids down this dead end path, one that’s paved with animal misery. They need to see that dogfighters never succeed. They are criminals, and there’s no good outcome. Michael Vick’s story is a narrative they need to hear.
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>"Stormy - you're a better man than I...I can't empathize with a person that chose to do such deeds and have no sympathy..."
///////////////////////
Actually, I am a notoriously semi-bad man.
My "empathy" simply means that I know how I would
feel if I had so foolishly gotten myself into such a mess.
The fact that I think I would "never" get into such a mess,
does not block me from grasping the feeling I would have
IF "never" became "now."
Sympathy springs from empathy. The guy is a pitiful mess.
The FACT that his SERIAL crimes are deplorably evil, does
not preclude pity.
And, "pity" should not be confused with "mercy." Since I
fully support capital punishment for drunk drivers, it is
fair to say that if it was up to me, we would not have
seen Vick anymore after he made his initial plea.
.......
Lots of poverty-stricken kids have - through acts they
themselves committed - ruined their teeth with Mountain
Dew and MoonPies.
As a dentist, you likely think how you would "feel" if you
were in that boat, and you "feel sorry" for those kids,
AND you are even willing to fix them.
In my view - formed after noting his actions - Vick is
"mentally ill." While I really don't think he can be "fixed,"
I feel sorry about that.
Vick was lost to the world a long time ago. Might have
been "the projects," or his parent(s), or physical issues
with his brain. Someday, science and public policy will
have the capacity to PREVENT most folks from ending
up like he has. Until then, all ordinary folks can do is
"feel sorry" that bad stuff happens. >>
Stormy
Providing me with definitions and semantics? You're preaching to the choir.
The fact is - your analogy of Vick and what I do is apples and oranges.
It's not my job or my desire to reach that far to find sympathy. And empathy? I choose not to walk in his shoes.
He would still be terrorizing dogs if he hadn't got caught.
Do I think he can be redeemed? You bet!
But, if he had true contrition, his rhetoric would've been a little more sincere IMO. He has referred on more than one occasion to "it" happened - as if outside forces did these heinous acts and he was just an unwilling follower.
You alluded to the fact that the guy may have deep problems? Perhaps sociopathic? Perhaps. But, way beyond my understanding or expertise.
I do appreciate the input tho.
mike
PETA's Statement on Eagles Vick Signing
By Dan Shannon
PETA and millions of decent football fans around the world are disappointed that the Philadelphia Eagles have chosen to sign a man who hanged dogs from trees, electrocuted them with jumper cables, held them underwater until they drowned in his swimming pool, and even threw his own family dogs into the fighting pit to be torn to shreds while he laughed. What sort of message does this send to young fans who care about animals and don't want to see them be harmed?
PETA certainly hopes that Vick has learned his lesson and feels truly remorseful for his crimes—but since he's given no public indication that that's the case, only time will tell. At this point, all Eagles fans can do is cross their fingers and hope that they won't ever have to explain to their sons and daughters what a "rape rack" is and why their favorite player was using one, as Falcons fans once had to.
...........
........................
While I like to eat tasty animals, I admire PETA's refusal to
allow itself to be used by the rehab-propaganda machine.
(Though, I admit that the HSUA position on "taking a chance"
has some compelling points.)
Prior to going to he Big House, the guy met with PETA and
repeatedly assured them that he "had not personally harmed"
any animals. He likely hoped that PETA would issue a nice
pre-sentencing letter in exchange for his offer of "future
services." PETA was not buying.
The constant in this affair, up until now, has been that Vick
has been a serial liar.
The Feds repeatedly warned the guy to STOP lying or they
would rip up the sweetheart deal. FINALLY, an FBI polyguy
broke Vick and he made some meager admissions that just
barely satisfied the terms of the deal.
The new spin is that Vick's critics "can't see into his heart
to know if he is now being honest." Those spinsters
should ask themselves why anybody would believe anything
a serial liar said in exchange for millions of dollars.
I am usually a forgiving person and always willing to give someone a second chance but the only thing he appears to be sorry about is the fact that his actions cost him close to $200 million.
When does Philly play Cleveland in the Dawg Pound?
<< <i>I also agree that this thread should be on the sports talk forum, but since it is here already, I am one of the many anti-Vick sports fans that hopes he gets pummelled in his first appearance and breaks his leg.
I am usually a forgiving person and always willing to give someone a second chance but the only thing he appears to be sorry about is the fact that his actions cost him close to $200 million.
When does Philly play Cleveland in the Dawg Pound? >>
Bill, it should be on the sports card forum, but if it was, it would have "lost it's flavor", and the tread would have digressed into a whizzing match between Dallas, Giants and Eagles fans.
Guess that's ok? But some topics just seem to be a "bigger than life" type topic, and not like "Tiger lost and was classless", or "the Mets suk", or "let's trash the Pirates thread" (sorry about those examples! LOL!). This "Vick thing" strikes a chord across the Country, on soooooooo many levels.
Blah blah blah! Enough! LOL!
rd
P.S. Sorry, I forgot to mention the Redskins!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
i'd probably want to wash my mouth out with a revolver.
then again, might be easier than to watch him
looking for PELLE LINDBERGH's psa and 1960 fleer baseball psa 8 and up
sets in progress
R.I.P. Barstow 24 April 1999 - May 15 2009
<< <i>And please don't say drunk driving is an accident. I'm sure Little and Stallworth knew they were drunk before they got behind the wheel of their cars. You make it sound like they ran a stop sign.Vick spent 2 1/2 years in jail. Stallworth got 20 days in jail. I don't see anyone saying Stallworth should never play again in the NFL. >>
Actually if you look around alot of people are writing and saying Stallworth should never play again but the precedent is already there for him to be reinstated and he does have a union to fight for him.
I don't think you read my post completely as I stated it was their direct actions that killed someone in an accident, lets be clear here, THEY DID NOT PLAN ON KILLING ANYONE WHEN THEY DROVE DRUNK. THEY WERE AT FAULT BUT DID NOT PLAN AND MURDER ANYONE.
While Vick's actions were all premeditated and planned.
I don't condone any of these actions but to say Vick is being treated worse is not fair when you look at the crimes and the laws. Should Stallworth got more jail sure I think so, but his sentence was actually common for his crime. If he actually murdered somone which he didn't he would be in jail for much longer than 2.5 years.
If Vick had killed just one dog or held one fight at his house I doubt he even goes to jail it was the sheer magnitude of his offenses and crossing of state lines and illegal gambling that really did him in and got the harsh penalty.
/////////////////////////////
Larry King just had one of the guy's rescued dogs on.
ALL of her teeth had been pulled, to make Vick's "breeding program" less dangerous.
<< <i>
<< <i>I also agree that this thread should be on the sports talk forum, but since it is here already, I am one of the many anti-Vick sports fans that hopes he gets pummelled in his first appearance and breaks his leg.
I am usually a forgiving person and always willing to give someone a second chance but the only thing he appears to be sorry about is the fact that his actions cost him close to $200 million.
When does Philly play Cleveland in the Dawg Pound? >>
Bill, it should be on the sports card forum, but if it was, it would have "lost it's flavor", and the tread would have digressed into a whizzing match between Dallas, Giants and Eagles fans.
Guess that's ok? But some topics just seem to be a "bigger than life" type topic, and not like "Tiger lost and was classless", or "the Mets suk", or "let's trash the Pirates thread" (sorry about those examples! LOL!). This "Vick thing" strikes a chord across the Country, on soooooooo many levels.
Blah blah blah! Enough! LOL!
rd
P.S. Sorry, I forgot to mention the Redskins!
I agree rd.
I want to commend everyone here for their input and POV - and more importantly the maturity to express your views without this degrading into a pissing match.
This has been a good discussion.
Ya know - I hope Vick gets help - puts his life back together and truly looks in the mirror and hates what he sees and spends the rest of his life supporting the goals of the ASPCA and the Humane Society.
mike
That is true.
Steve
<< <i>He would still be terrorizing dogs if he hadn't got caught.
That is true.
Steve >>
thats a fact, jack!!!
looking for PELLE LINDBERGH's psa and 1960 fleer baseball psa 8 and up
sets in progress
R.I.P. Barstow 24 April 1999 - May 15 2009
Litmus test #1 - Work ethics.
Michael Vick needs to do a " football 180" and become a role model for his new team. In the locker room, on the practice field, off the field (in public), and during games. He must turn around that "lazy image" he had and admitted to, in Atlanta, well before his "dog fighting ring" came to light.
Litmus test # 2 - Needs to work with "America's poor youth".
And use his criminal past for some good, by sending a clear message how horrible his life became and how much he lost because of his criminal "dog fighting" enterprises.
Litmus test # 3- Become a spark plug and a public figure.
For change in animal rights and all kinds of events that will help erode criminal dog fighting rings all across the country. And as a public figure, help get more laws changed accross the land.
The next few years should be interesting for the Eagles, Vick, and for a "ton of issues" that need to be addressed.
I think Vick has a rare opportunity to transcend his "fame and failure" into something "big and important". Can he do it? Is the million dollar question?
Is Vick up for the job? America can only hope?
rd
P.S. There is plenty more to be said. Michael, I hope you "Google and Yahoo" all those "yourself & the Vick things" and read about what the country thinks about you. And how you can take the next few years of your life and begin to do really great things! Again I ask, "Mr. Vick, can you do it?"
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>He would still be terrorizing dogs if he hadn't got caught.
That is true.
Steve >>
///////////////////////////
The seized paperwork detailing dogfight transactions went back
just shy of seven-years.
Remember: The case NEVER would have been made at all,
if his intellectually defective cousin had not been busted for
dope AND foolishly given Vick's address as his own residence.
The cops got a warrant to look for the cousin's stash and ACCIDENTLY
found the dog operation.
another person who threw it away
why didn't he get a second chance????????????????????????
looking for PELLE LINDBERGH's psa and 1960 fleer baseball psa 8 and up
sets in progress
R.I.P. Barstow 24 April 1999 - May 15 2009
<< <i>who was the basket ball player who killed his butler. (Jason Williams?? from the nets?)
another person who threw it away
why didn't he get a second chance???????????????????????? >>
J-Will retired. Jason helped the Miami Heat win a title. (I loved Jason's behind the back moves! And he was a great clutch shooter "down the stretch"!)...
Think he was acquitted? I heard he may test the NBA waters this season. After being out of basketball for two years (he's 33). Guess he could come off the bench and still may play an important role as a vet guard?
Or will his past "off the court baggage" detract and harm an NBA team? Similar types of unanswered questions the Eagles have for Vick;
...an NBA team should have for J-Will?
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
Of course, Marcus and Michael are not twins, but presumably they had a similar upbringing; though Michael is a little less than four (4) years older.
/s/ JackWESQ
Some crimes should not be forgiven. Vick should still be in jail crying like a little beetch.
As should Stallworth and Little.
The NFL needs to get rid of these thug athletes.
The NFL somehow survived two full season's without Vick and would and will be fine if Vick never played another down.
I also feel sorry for Arthur Blank, Falcons owner, who had enough confidence in Vick's abilities to make him the highest paid NFL player, only to have Vick's actions cost his franchise a bundle. Blank got nothing for his investment other than a PR black eye and what 20 million in signing bonus money paid out with little in return.
Vick screwed over the Falcon's and let his teammates and community down.
The best way to deter the dog fighting that goes on in America is to catch the people running these events and the idiots attending them and line them up in front of a pay-per-view firing squad.
I guarantee that all dog fighting operations would cease across the USA after a few highly rated broadcasts of the PPV firing squad shows.
This may be the case with Vick. While you are doing it all seems normal. Then once you get caught
it sinks in.
Steve
/////////////////
Marcus looks like a one man crime wave. The judges that
keep letting him off the hook WILL have blood on their
hands when the inevitable happens.
If I had pulled any of the carp Marcus did as a ute, I would
not have seen a courtroom. My father would have hired
somebody to kill me OR my mother would have torn me
apart with her bare hands.
As far asI know, Aaron Brooks, Mike's first-cousin, stayed on
the straight path; so, it's likely "nurture not nature." Brooks rarely
saw Vick when they were young. (Both came from the same economic background.)
Marcus helped Mike defraud the creditors in Mike's BK, by
accepting MASSIVE "gifts" on the eve of Mike entering prison.
The BK was quietly filed after Vick was locked-up.
It's amazing that the creditors have not turned the FBI loose
on that bankruptcy case.
Remember: Vick dumped $3-million+ in cash during the 30-days
preceeding his Big House arrival. That is just the amount we
know about; nobody knows how much he really stashed or
transfered.
...................
August 26, 2007 --
Redacted NN POST article:
NEWPORT NEWS, Va. - Michael Vick may have hit rock bottom last week after he admitted to his part in a brutal dogfighting ring, his own father ratted him out and the NFL suspended him indefinitely.
"I gotta be strong for him," Brenda Vick said, standing outside the handsome brick mansion her son bought for her in Suffolk, Va. "It is tough on everybody. They are trying to put my baby in jail, and for what?"
"Everybody makes mistakes," she continued, only hours after her son filed his guilty plea Friday. "Everybody deserves a second chance. He has given his life over to God. He is not a criminal . . . He's a good person. He has a big heart, and it just hurts."
The most influential woman in the disgraced gridiron great's life vigorously defended him in an exclusive interview with The Post. In her first public words of support for her embattled child, she also accused her estranged husband of lying about their son and trying to extort money from him to support his drug habit.
But according to the signed statements of three of his original co-defendants, the 27-year-old superstar quarterback physically participated in the killing of at least eight dogs - hanging some and drowning others.
Vick initially denied knowing anything about a dogfighting ring, saying his cousin lived in the house. He pleaded not guilty last month and vowed to clear his name at a trial this November.
Last week, however, Vick agreed to a plea deal with jail time that could put an end to his football career.
Brenda Vick, 44, ripped into her husband, Michael Boddie, who said his 27-year-old son was deeply involved in dogfighting for years.
In interviews with the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Washington Post Friday, Boddie claimed his son hosted dogfighting competitions in 2001 in the garage of the family's former Newport News home, and that he had urged his son to stop.
"I don't know what kind of a father would do that to his child," Brenda Vick said.
"There was no dogfighting [at our home]. There were no cages."
"I know he is angry and mad because of his son - because of his drug habit."
She said Boddie has a history of drug abuse and is a deadbeat dad who is angry that Vick has not given him more of his multimillion-dollar fortune.
Boddie "is mad because of the gifts my son would give to me," said Vick's mother, who resides on a leafy cul-de-sac in an upscale development near a golf course.
The estranged couple have four children together. They weren't married when Michael was born. Brenda Vick said she and Boddie lived together on and off since the children were young, but have been apart for the last five years.
Boddie - who did not return messages seeking comment - resides in a rental apartment in Atlanta that his quarterback son pays for.
"Playing football, that's his main concern," said Vick's younger brother, Marcus, a former Virginia Tech quarterback who has had his own trouble with the law.
"Everybody thought I was a single parent," she said.
"He abused me. He fought me. My children saw it growing up," Brenda Vick said. "They've seen their father buy drugs."
In January 2006, Michael Vick settled a lawsuit by a woman who claimed he knowingly gave her herpes.
"He always loved dogs," said Vick's sister, Christina, 28.
//////////////////////////////////////
Meanwhile, Pete Rose cannot get into the MLB HOF.