Advice to Dealers: Don't be these guys

Morgoth · August 16, 2009 2:10PM

During my trip to the national a new thing occured while trying to sell some cards to dealers. Three dealers in a row decided to look up on their laptops every card I had for sale on ebay for last completed auctions before giving me a price.

Look I understand the view of theirs but do they realize how long it took???????? I had over 500 psa graded and autos with me that I was looking to sell. I only had 1 day at the show anyway and I didn't want to haggle with guys. These dealers wouldn't even offer a price without looking it up.

To me this is lazy as they should be able to price these cards in a way to make money for themselves. It's not like I was bringing them a bunch of rare E cards or new stuff that doesn't have any history of sales. I mean come on how hard is it to price a Peyton Manning Auto card numbered out of 100 or a PSA 8 1969 Hank Aaron?

One guy literally took every card out of my box and had a buddy look them up for him, after 1 hour of dicking around the guys finally came up with a price but only on about 15 cards and it was so low I was actually insulted. He said he has to buy at 70% of ebay prices which I replied that he priced at 200% of ebay prices so he was full of crap.

By the third guy I told him I was in a hurry and just give me an idea of percentage and he just said depends on the card and that he wanted to look things up to make sure he knew what to offer. I said no and just left. I will never sell to any dealer who does this again as my time is valuable at a show. I don't want to spend 2 hours selling 100$ of cards.

Really if you are going to set up at a show like that you should have some idea of percentage of book or what popular cards sell for before coming to the show. Looking up a few cards is ok with me but to do it for every 5$ card is just stupid.

Keep in mind this only happened selling to younger dealers who basically had new stuff as most of my vintage dealer guys just give you a number after they look at the quality. Takes about 5 minutes with those guys.

On the flip side how do you think dealers would treat you if you whipped out the laptop and quoted last ebay prices (and only use the absolute lowest one) to show them how to price their cards?

mike92694 · August 16, 2009 2:37PM

Now, can I ask a question or two? Why did you go to these dealers, and why did you stick around for the first two dealers?

BigDaddyBowman · August 16, 2009 2:46PM

The few times that I have sold cards at shows I always tell the dealer what the approx. SMR value of my lot is and also what the approx. VCP is so they have reference points to begin negotiations. I also bundle the cards together in rubber bands by common years and in dollar amount values..for instance I might bundle 50 and 51 Bowman football together and group them by SMR value of $1,000...coming in organized has helped me IMO make more efficient sales....that I was happy with.

If I was dealing at shows I would not have a clue to buy cards that were not vintage football..which is my area of expertise...I would either pass on anything else, or be forced to research on vcp or ebay. If I was the dealer you mentioned, I would have cherry picked the top percentage of cards and looked those up and just guestimate on the rest.

csmtampa · August 16, 2009 2:56PM

Sell on ebay or on this BST board, and avoid lowball offers from dealers....or sell to me. I pay 65% of ebay

strangecreature · August 16, 2009 3:02PM

I dont know why any collector these days would want to sell to dealers??

storm888 · August 16, 2009 3:05PM

"...If I was the dealer you mentioned, I would have cherry picked the top percentage of cards and looked those up and just guestimate on the rest..."

////////////////

Yup.

LOTS of dealers at big shows are in selling mode, and only want
to buy stuff from "citizens" if they can steal it. But, they should not
make folks wait forever to get a figure of some kind.

Pricing stuff out at a shop or in an office is a TOTALLY different skill
than doing it on the fly over a busy show-table.

Morgoth · August 16, 2009 3:05PM

To answer why I stopped at those dealers, it was simple they asked if I was selling and I said yes. It wasn't until about the 10th card did I realize that they were going to look them all up (first guy) and by the third guy I had had it.

I had SMR listed for all the cards with me and ebay pricing as well but they wouldn't take my word and wanted to look them up. I came prepared they didn't.

I try to be very nice to all dealers as you don't want to burn bridges so it took alot (were talking wasting about 3 hours of time at a show) before I just said no to the 3rd dealer.

If you don't know what your buying then they should just pass not try and find a price by scrolling for 20 minutes through ebay completed auctions.

WinPitcher · August 16, 2009 4:53PM

How can you blame someone for wanting to know what the value is before buying?

I think the problem is you brought too many cards to the table.

Or did you expect them to know every price for every card you had off the top of there head?

If you want to sell to dealers (or whoever they are) then be prepared to follow their protocols.

If SMR or Beckett was up to date instead of being useless they could have used them and been somewhat faster.

How would a dealer felt if you broke out a lap top to see? Who cares what they think. They either want your money or they don't

Sorry if I sound adversarial, that is not my intent, but if you want to sell 100's of cards to a dealer and they come back with an offer for 10

you may have started the negotiation off wrong, maybe you should have said "I'm selling these cards all or nothing. That way they too don't waste

time. Then they could have flipped through the lot and saw if it was even in there interest.

Steve

grote15 · August 16, 2009 5:15PM

Yet another reason why collectors should be selling their cards on ebay. The need to sell to a dealer is essentially obsolete at this point unless you have extenuating circumstances. Why accept wholesale low ball prices when you list a card for 35 cents and get retail value (or close to it)?

csmtampa · August 16, 2009 7:55PM

I am willing to pay 65% if anyone is looking to sell high condition vintage

Morgoth · August 16, 2009 10:36PM

Steve I set up at a dealer all the time and that's why I can sell to them as I get some good deals as well. I don't waste my customers time looking up $5 cards on ebay before I shoot them a price. If these guys are not capable of pricing common every day cards then they need to get a new gig. The idea of buying as a dealer is usually in volumn.

Steve also I am not a mind reader, I cannot predict what a dealer will want to buy before I reach his table. I also cannot predict he will low ball me until he shoots a price. 99% of dealers want to look at all you cards before making a decision on what to buy. Your blaming me for bringing too many cards is silly and I the amount I wanted to sell was based on the price offered not a "buy all or none" deal. I sold over 3K worth of cards that day.

Some guys don't have a clue or make no sense I had one guy tell me he couldn't use or sell a 52 Topps Jackie Robinson or a T206 Ty Cobb even though he had 52 topps and T cards in his case (he claimed he only had these to sell to another guy who hadn't showed up yet). Another guy with only newer cards said he was only interested in T cards.

Do I expect them to know the price off the top of their heads, yes in some cases I do. They should know what percent they are willing to pay for common stuff that people see all the time at shows and only look up stuff harder to price or rarer to find. Like I said most vintage dealers look at quality and shoot a price in like 5 minutes, these other guys looked at the same cards and took about 1 hour to do the same.

rbdjr1 · August 16, 2009 11:44PM

It is hard to say without being there, but BigDaddyBowman's approach, "preparing items in advance" (i.e., SMR pricing, separating items in groups, etc.) sounds pretty good to me. It may give a dealer an incentive to "pull the trigger"?

Nothing wrong in offering items to dealers. You must be prepared to sell, IMO "way below wholesale" for your items at that type of event, otherwise most dealers will simply pass, unless your items are something special. (...think you said your cards were nothing special?).

In this economy, IMO, dealers need to buy "way back of book", otherwise just pass. As always, I guess it just depends on the items offered, and the dealers interest in those items.

Funny, but your items may be rejected by many dealers, and then all of a sudden, the next dealer offers you a good deal?

I agree with many here. Sell on ebay if you can, otherwise "take a beating" and sell them to a dealer! LOL!

rd

edit: I agree that was too much time your those three dealers to take on your items. Sounds like they figured if you allowed them that much control, they would attempt to lowball you a little. Guess you told them what they can do with their offer(s)? LOL!

itzagoner · August 17, 2009 12:09AM

the more things change......

in the "old" days, a guy such as myself could stroll the show floor, notebook wedged securely in my armpit, and begin the tried and true process of haggling with sweat-soaked, poorly dressed and underfunded dealers......in some cases, they would take your stuff and scan it thoughtfully, all the while me standing there whistling "Money" by Pink Floyd or some such tune and after the inevitable back and forth nonsense, i would walk away gratified that i just offed a 1962 Topps Mickey Mantle with 17 creases and a child's initials on the back for a smoking hot 20 bucks, which, at the very worst could get me at least 8 to 10 more notebooks......then, i take the current notebook to the next table and the thoughtful research process begins anew, only this time the sweat-soaked, poorly dressed, underfunded dealer in question wants to show the notebook to 3 other guys who happen to be sitting back to back with him.......literally.

corvette1340 · August 17, 2009 12:29AM

If I'm looking at a large collection or set and don't want to take the time to VCP everything, I take half of SMR and go by that. If you are buying at around half of current SMR then you are generally doing well unless it's just a lot of commons.

RonBurgundy · August 17, 2009 12:57AM

Interesting post. Generally, I agree. If you're going to hold yourself out as an expert card dealer man by setting up a table, at least have the friggin' decency to know what your offer range is. Looking up a few cards is fine but if it's your livelihood you should know what stuff sells for. I had my entire National ruined 2 years ago by one arse who held my stuff hostage for 3 days while he grinded me on the price. Never again.

There are a couple really good guys I sell to all the time, and I just drop stuff off with them and come back later. They have bidness to attend to, and so do I. But if it's someone you don't know, they owe you prompt attention if they are truly interested.

Now, on another note, if you are a dealer, PLEASE SPARE ME THE COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW BAD THE HOBBY IS, HOW BAD THE ECONOMY IS, HOW IT'S NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE, HOW BAD YOUR TABLE LOCATION IS, HOW STINKY YOUR HOTEL ROOM IS, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I'm so sick of hearing dealers complain, it just sucks the lifeforce out of you at their table. Some of it I think is a negotiating ploy (the smarter ones do this), but if it's really that bad for you, sell all your crap to me for 10% of book and I'll take care of it from there.

larryallen73 · August 17, 2009 2:02AM

One guy literally took every card out of my box and had a buddy look them up for him, after 1 hour of dicking around the guys finally came up with a price but only on about 15 cards and it was so low I was actually insulted. He said he has to buy at 70% of ebay prices which I replied that he priced at 200% of ebay prices so he was full of crap.

I don't understand this. I guess I will play devil's advocate a little. While I agree dealers should know their business a little better than they did I don't understand why you would question what they will pay for cards. You were insulted that a guy wanted to pay 70% of Ebay prices? Really? By the time you factor in Ebay fees and Paypal fees there is very little room for profit. The fact that he has cards LISTED for sale at 200% of Ebay means nothing. Maybe he puts those prices on there for CHUMPS when most people offer 50% (or less) of asking price. Frankly I would be looking to buy cards for about 50% of Ebay auction "prices." There can be a 25% swing in Ebay auction closings. They are not "prices." It's a great guide but that's it. Anyway, just playing devil's advocate here.

Morgoth · August 17, 2009 2:17AM

Actually my cards were not crap otherwise dealers wouldn't even bother looking. I usually only sell when funding other card buying needs and that was the case this time. I don't sell for a loss either and I know what cards sell for as a dealer so I know what they should offer and I told them that number at the beginning of the negotiations but like I said they had to "look it up" to be sure.

Again, most dealers take whatever number you give them and offer like half that and move from there. Fine but lets start the negotiations at the time I arrive at the table not 1 hour later.

Also some of the cards I had were of very hot players that were bringing over SMR and Beckett pricing on ebay (like I said I don't deal in crap, I sell it at my card shows in the dollar and quarter boxes). Also I wasn't going to line price at 50% of book either and thats where the 70% number came in. Card sells for 400, books 300 and guy offers 210. I say no thanks and get the Ron Burgundy tail of woe.

I am never mean about saying no, but if the dude just said 70% of book at the beginning we could have parted ways much sooner. You notice he didn't offer 70% of ebay price either but anyway..........

Also, the $5 dollar card thing was just a number, majority of stuff I had was min of $50 but could sell in the $15 to 25 range so to me that is getting close to crap cards but not quite. Most of the stuff I have to sell was over $100 in price. However I did have some really nice 65 topps commons that I priced under 5 bucks and some autos at 5 bucks as well but still not in the crap range yet.

jomer · August 17, 2009 3:01AM

Type a list of what you have and drop it off at the sellers table.

He could go through it, when time permits ~ and email you a quote. (sure beats lugging around a bunch of cards)

Mickey71 · August 17, 2009 3:15AM

Let me give my side of this story. When I sell I'm in charge of the situation. I bring the cards to well known dealers that I've dealt with and tell them what I'm looking to get out of the cards or look to do a trade with cash, etc. I deal in vintage and I generally expect a dealer to know what's going on. I don't sell cards saying to myself" I have to sell these no matter what". The seller should go with a sell price already in mind and be prepared to budge a little bit. Honestly, sell on ebay or on the boards. If you have nice items in the 100-$200 range they should be on the boards first. I will say that I attended a show once and BMW could barely be budged to get off their labtops. They honestly did not want to get out of their chairs to show anyone anything. Most people including myself just moved on. They are pretty much a museum anyway. My favorite one are dealers who can not get off of their cell phones.

JMO,

Mickey71

WinPitcher · August 17, 2009 3:59AM

Goth no where in your original post did you say you had common run of the mill cards.

I was going by the statement that you had 500 PSA graded cards.

I'm sorry I even effing replied now.

Steve

Morgoth · August 17, 2009 5:02AM

Its cool steve, i was just replying to your comment. You werent the only one to think my stuff was low end which it might of been but in this case it wasn't. Like I said I normally sell it at local shows.

The list idea is a good one but again most dealers want to see condition too but it would at least give them an idea of pricing and adjust from there. I did have a list of my dad's Pujols collection but again the guys wanted to look it up themselves.

I also did have a pretty firm price in hand so thats why I didn't sell to the guy offering 70%. Also I do agree the bay and boards are better to sell on but when you go to the national you sometimes need to bring some extra ammo to get a great card you find. I don't mind selling a part of my collection to finanace another purchase. I wasn't selling just to have cash, hence I wouldn't have sold these on ebay anyway just found a good card I wanted.

The only stuff we "had" to sell were the Pujols cards as my dad wanted to purchase a 34 Gehrig with his Pujols collection and he was in it pretty cheap and he is hot right now. Thats why I did a list on that part of the collection and not my stuff. I only started trying to sell my stuff when I found that 33 SK Ruth card.

WinPitcher · August 17, 2009 5:07AM

You werent the only one to think my stuff was low end which it might of been but in this case it wasn't.

Actually I thought they were cards with value and that is why they had to look them up.

Steve

Advice to Dealers: Don't be these guys

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