Vick
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What do you all think about Vick playing again in the NFL? Would you want him on your team?
After reading what he and his buddies actually did to the dogs, I find it hard to forgive, at least in terms of him playing in the NFL.
After reading what he and his buddies actually did to the dogs, I find it hard to forgive, at least in terms of him playing in the NFL.
"Molon Labe"
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Mike
Leave Vick alone and let him play.
<< <i>Vick has paid his service to society. Who are we to deny him an avenue to support himself. Just because he abused dogs doesn't mean that he is not allowed to make a living...a living of his choice. Isn't that what prison is suppose to be about. Do your time, learn your lesson, leave a free man and get a job instead of doing something to get yourself back in prison.
Leave Vick alone and let him play. >>
woooooh back it up pal!! That living he made in the NFL allowed him the funds to abuse dogs. If you think for a second that Vick is sorry??? Pleeeease. Hey, If the Dodgers can give Steve Howe 7 more chances..what the hell...what's a few more dogs?
It's easier for me to hate football than it is for me to hate Vick.
FB is boring, and Vick is just a semi-psycho marooooon that had
enough money to buy his way out of a situation that would have
been handled MUCH differently if he was just a broke peasant.
Maybe I just have some pity for guys who are demented AND
stooopid enough to blow the jackpot proceeds of life's lottery.
Or, maybe if they were going to let him play baseball, I would
be opposed. Since I don't care much about FB - except for the
stars and the final few games - I really have no problem with
him being invited back.
If the guys that run the thug-gladiator show can make money
on Vick, they will hire him back.
He will always be thought of by most folks as a "doggie murderer."
I don't see that as a good draw for most fans, but if the NFL does
enough polling they may find enough folks that "love a comeback"
to make the gamble worth a try.
<< <i>I find it unforgivable. Just because he went to jail does not change what he did. I am a strong believer that people can change with time but a person who gets enjoyment out of watching animals suffer is a real dirt bag. However, football is a business and no one can argue that he wasn’t a great player on the field. I am sure with his army of PR people he will play again. >>
This. I agree with all of this.
The very idea that Vick did what he did to those animals (weaker/weakened, living creatures bred only to be destroyed at his discretion) gets the opportunity to make millions of dollars again, is despicable. I get that he's not going to have it easy p.r. wise but when you consider the NFL's history of turning a blind eye to the horrific actions of it's players, it's extremely likely that he'll be picked up very soon and making more money than this board's member's salaries combined.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>The very idea that Vick did what he did to those animals (weaker/weakened, living creatures bred only to be destroyed at his discretion) gets the opportunity to make millions of dollars again, is despicable. >>
Get over yourself. "Animal" cruelty? You mean "dog" cruelty. We wouldn't be so upset if he allowed a rabbit fighting operation out of his house, would we?
It's time society directs its anger where it will do some good. It's easy to jump on the Vick hating bandwagon when he kills some dogs, while some child molesters are released after only a few months in prison (like the guy in Seattle who was given a 6-month sentence, or the guy in Vermont who got only 60 days a couple years ago).
Of course what Vick did was wrong. But losing 2 years of his life and millions of $ is more than enough punishment for killing animals. He's paid his price and then some, IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>The very idea that Vick did what he did to those animals (weaker/weakened, living creatures bred only to be destroyed at his discretion) gets the opportunity to make millions of dollars again, is despicable. >>
Get over yourself. "Animal" cruelty? You mean "dog" cruelty. We wouldn't be so upset if he allowed a rabbit fighting operation out of his house, would we?
It's time society directs its anger where it will do some good. It's easy to jump on the Vick hating bandwagon when he kills some dogs, while some child molesters are released after only a few months in prison (like the guy in Seattle who was given a 6-month sentence, or the guy in Vermont who got only 60 days a couple years ago).
Of course what Vick did was wrong. But losing 2 years of his life and millions of $ is more than enough punishment for killing animals. He's paid his price and then some, IMO. >>
He didn't lose 2 years of his life, he spent time in jail (1 1/2 years) for the brutality of his actions. He deserves to be drained of his financial comforts the way that those dogs were of their lives.
No bandwagon here. Brutally killing dogs is reprehensible - f'ing fact! Please explain how rabbits would be trained/bred to fight. I can't wait to hear it.
Oh and tell me how often child molesters are given the opportunity to slip right into their previous jobs - give me one instance. You think that because you poorly analogize one reprehensible act with another, that it works?
Seriously?? You are so enamored by his athletic ability/entertainment value and this b.s. idea that "he's paid his due", that you would even argue such a sorry point of view? The man is a piece of s*** and the only reason that it's an issue of contention on this board is because some people (yourself suggestively included) have some sort of investment in his life, be it financial (cards) or emotional (he was so great!!!). Just because you value several dogs lives at far below the worth of a human, yourself, family etc. does not mean that what he did was insignificant enough to allow for a continued life of relative luxury.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>Vick has paid his service to society. Who are we to deny him an avenue to support himself. Just because he abused dogs doesn't mean that he is not allowed to make a living...a living of his choice. Isn't that what prison is suppose to be about. Do your time, learn your lesson, leave a free man and get a job instead of doing something to get yourself back in prison.
Leave Vick alone and let him play. >>
Ridiculous.
I can't find a single portion of this that is right.
So you believe that Vick spending time in prison made him realize that brutally executing dogs was a horrible thing? Hmm. So I'd imagine that he would be heading straight for the ASPCA or Humane Society to work out a charity agreement to show us, the regular joes entertained by the NFL, that he realizes how deplorable his actions are.
Wait. He hasn't done anything of the such? Well I'm sure he just "get's it" now.
How many of you people actually have or had dogs?
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>
.
How many of you people actually have or had dogs? >>
I have a 4 year old yellow lab. Most of you will think I'm crazy but I would give him a kidney if I could, if he needed it.
<< <i>I am a strong believer that people can change with time but a person who gets enjoyment out of watching animals suffer is a real dirt bag. However, football is a business and no one can argue that he wasn’t a great player on the field. >>
i must address this comment, not to criticize, but simply to make an observation.......
in today's world, many who attend football games at virtually any level are there to support their team and their favorite players.......football, by nature, is a very physical and brutal sport, and the honest truth is, we relish the opportunity to see our favorite "Jack Lambert" guy wipe out our least favorite "Eric Hipple" guy, and even look forward to the potential of watching such an action predicate the removal of "Eric Hipple" guy by stretcher or ambulance......
to carry it one step further, we would also currently relish the opportunity to watch Michael Vick become "Eric Hipple" guy and himself be carried from the field.
football includes watching people suffer at the hands of others.....they are paid to do it and we pay to watch......i am certain that several million dirt bags will once again be attending or watching on a flat screen next month when the violence commences.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am a strong believer that people can change with time but a person who gets enjoyment out of watching animals suffer is a real dirt bag. However, football is a business and no one can argue that he wasn’t a great player on the field. >>
i must address this comment, not to criticize, but simply to make an observation.......
in today's world, many who attend football games at virtually any level are there to support their team and their favorite players.......football, by nature, is a very physical and brutal sport, and the honest truth is, we relish the opportunity to see our favorite "Jack Lambert" guy wipe out our least favorite "Eric Hipple" guy, and even look forward to the potential of watching such an action predicate the removal of "Eric Hipple" guy by stretcher or ambulance......
to carry it one step further, we would also currently relish the opportunity to watch Michael Vick become "Eric Hipple" guy and himself be carried from the field.
football includes watching people suffer at the hands of others.....they are paid to do it and we pay to watch......i am certain that several million dirt bags will once again be attending or watching on a flat screen next month when the violence commences. >>
I have to disagree with this. How can you compare the two. Yes football is a brutal sport but there are rules and they are not playing to the death.
Tho, with Vick, it's a bit of a jagged pill to swallow.
<< <i>He didn't lose 2 years of his life, he spent time in jail (1 1/2 years) for the brutality of his actions. He deserves to be drained of his financial comforts the way that those dogs were of their lives.
No bandwagon here. Brutally killing dogs is reprehensible - f'ing fact! Please explain how rabbits would be trained/bred to fight. I can't wait to hear it.
Oh and tell me how often child molesters are given the opportunity to slip right into their previous jobs - give me one instance. You think that because you poorly analogize one reprehensible act with another, that it works?
Seriously?? You are so enamored by his athletic ability/entertainment value and this b.s. idea that "he's paid his due", that you would even argue such a sorry point of view? The man is a piece of s*** and the only reason that it's an issue of contention on this board is because some people (yourself suggestively included) have some sort of investment in his life, be it financial (cards) or emotional (he was so great!!!). Just because you value several dogs lives at far below the worth of a human, yourself, family etc. does not mean that what he did was insignificant enough to allow for a continued life of relative luxury. >>
Ok, 19 months, not 24. Why is the idea that he's 'paid his due' unacceptable to sensitive people? Since you missed my point the first time, I'll explain it again. People like you who take up arms for animals are misdirecting your rage, when criminals who molest children are freed after a few months without so much as a mention from the media. That was my "poor analogy".
I own 2 dogs, but not a single Michael Vick card. I couldn't care less if he succeeds or not his second time around. But I do care that society provides fair and equal justice, and the sentence he served is more than fair in comparison to other sentences given for crimes against humans.
Our legal system is based on the idea that once you serve your time, you may re-enter society. If you personally don't want Vick to succeed financially, then don't attend his games and don't buy his jersey. But he has a right to again earn a living from the skills he has (if he still has them), just like anyone else.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am a strong believer that people can change with time but a person who gets enjoyment out of watching animals suffer is a real dirt bag. However, football is a business and no one can argue that he wasn’t a great player on the field. >>
i must address this comment, not to criticize, but simply to make an observation.......
in today's world, many who attend football games at virtually any level are there to support their team and their favorite players.......football, by nature, is a very physical and brutal sport, and the honest truth is, we relish the opportunity to see our favorite "Jack Lambert" guy wipe out our least favorite "Eric Hipple" guy, and even look forward to the potential of watching such an action predicate the removal of "Eric Hipple" guy by stretcher or ambulance......
to carry it one step further, we would also currently relish the opportunity to watch Michael Vick become "Eric Hipple" guy and himself be carried from the field.
football includes watching people suffer at the hands of others.....they are paid to do it and we pay to watch......i am certain that several million dirt bags will once again be attending or watching on a flat screen next month when the violence commences. >>
I have to disagree with this. How can you compare the two. Yes football is a brutal sport but there are rules and they are not playing to the death. >>
i am not contemplating football, my friend, nor would i condone Vick's actions, in fact, i'd kick him square in the nuts given the chance......the point is, we are a demanding bunch and we will seek out a fix wherever and however we can get it......we exist at different levels and most of us are cognizant of the laws and common sense.....but, let's not kid ourselves, we will stop on a dime to witness ANY train wreck.
<< <i>Once again... playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. >>
No. His right (just like anyone else's) is to earn a living with the skills he has, for any company that wants to employ him. The company (ie, NFL) has an equal right to decline his services.
The man has done his time, and it's crazy giving him all this guff about coming back. Where was this outrage when murderers like Leonard Little and sex-offenders were allowed back in the league.
"To err is human, to forgive is canine"
<< <i>
<< <i>Once again... playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. >>
No. His right (just like anyone else's) is to earn a living with the skills he has, for any company that wants to employ him. The company (ie, NFL) has an equal right to decline his services. >>
Thank you for defining "privilege", much appreciated.
<< <i>
<< <i>He didn't lose 2 years of his life, he spent time in jail (1 1/2 years) for the brutality of his actions. He deserves to be drained of his financial comforts the way that those dogs were of their lives.
No bandwagon here. Brutally killing dogs is reprehensible - f'ing fact! Please explain how rabbits would be trained/bred to fight. I can't wait to hear it.
Oh and tell me how often child molesters are given the opportunity to slip right into their previous jobs - give me one instance. You think that because you poorly analogize one reprehensible act with another, that it works?
Seriously?? You are so enamored by his athletic ability/entertainment value and this b.s. idea that "he's paid his due", that you would even argue such a sorry point of view? The man is a piece of s*** and the only reason that it's an issue of contention on this board is because some people (yourself suggestively included) have some sort of investment in his life, be it financial (cards) or emotional (he was so great!!!). Just because you value several dogs lives at far below the worth of a human, yourself, family etc. does not mean that what he did was insignificant enough to allow for a continued life of relative luxury. >>
Ok, 19 months, not 24. Why is the idea that he's 'paid his due' unacceptable to sensitive people? Since you missed my point the first time, I'll explain it again. People like you who take up arms for animals are misdirecting your rage, when criminals who molest children are freed after a few months without so much as a mention from the media. That was my "poor analogy".
I own 2 dogs, but not a single Michael Vick card. I couldn't care less if he succeeds or not his second time around. But I do care that society provides fair and equal justice, and the sentence he served is more than fair in comparison to other sentences given for crimes against humans.
Our legal system is based on the idea that once you serve your time, you may re-enter society. If you personally don't want Vick to succeed financially, then don't attend his games and don't buy his jersey. But he has a right to again earn a living from the skills he has (if he still has them), just like anyone else. >>
Your analogy is still poor but I'll play along. If Albert Pujols ends up convicted of molesting kids but gets out after a few months of jail time, only to have the opportunity to make millions of dollars again and has done nothing to publicly recognize that he is truly remorseful, then yes, I'll be equally or more "upset". And for the sake of "how upset" Joe Schmo Molestor or any other horrible human being's actions make me, well, you have no idea how I react to things that are less-publicized than this case (on a sports message board no less).
Vick has a long and well-documented career as a piece of s***. Like many NFL players before him, the fact that he ends up back in a position to be making millions of dollars seems like a failure of the system to me. I believe that when you take the life of an innocent animal brutally, numerous times over (or in your example, destroy the innocence of a child) with complete abandon of your humanity, that your "right" to continue making an extravagant living should at the very least be severely hindered, if not completely abolished.
So this system that you believe has worked for Vick, you'd apply the same philosophy to a child molester? So if a former teacher or daycare attendant of your child was convicted of molesting another child, you would be championing their rights to go back to the same job they once had, even if that job/position ($$$$, nobody saying "No, that's wrong" in Vick's case) may have enabled the situation?
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>OK, let's take rabbits out of the equation. How about "rooster" fighting? Would you "burn him at the stake" folks have the same view then? People these days are insane about dogs. Just from watching people in my neighborhood, I'm convinced that probably half of them would choose their dog's life ahead of that of one of their neighbors. It's crazy.
The man has done his time, and it's crazy giving him all this guff about coming back. Where was this outrage when murderers like Leonard Little and sex-offenders were allowed back in the league. >>
No burning at the stake.
His acts simply are heinous enough that a likely return to a life of luxury/celebrity status is really screwed up. All of those previous cases are seriously messed up too, but Vick is on another level only because of his status as a player, thereby his status in the media. The Lewis Billups' of the game are equally reprehensible and had there been the internet at the time, I'm sure people would've been up-in-arms about all of those guys.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
anyway...
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It's been tried for thousands of years.
Even Jesus Christ could not do it.
I feel bad for regular folks who dont have the money or influece to do what Vick is getting the chance to do..get his life back on track, Instead they get screwed out of jobs for misdemeanors or stuff on their record thats 10-15 years old and haunts them forever (and im not talking about child molestors)
<< <i>So this system that you believe has worked for Vick, you'd apply the same philosophy to a child molester? So if a former teacher or daycare attendant of your child was convicted of molesting another child, you would be championing their rights to go back to the same job they once had, even if that job/position ($$$$, nobody saying "No, that's wrong" in Vick's case) may have enabled the situation? >>
As a teacher, I can say no, child molesters should not be hired back at a school. But last I checked, Vick's job in the NFL does not involve the care of animals.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
<< <i>Thank you for defining "privilege", much appreciated. >>
Anytime. Let me know if I can help you out with other words.
This guy would kick Vick, all his dogs, and almost everyone that posts here's ***.
<< <i>
<< <i>So this system that you believe has worked for Vick, you'd apply the same philosophy to a child molester? So if a former teacher or daycare attendant of your child was convicted of molesting another child, you would be championing their rights to go back to the same job they once had, even if that job/position ($$$$, nobody saying "No, that's wrong" in Vick's case) may have enabled the situation? >>
As a teacher, I can say no, child molesters should not be hired back at a school. But last I checked, Vick's job in the NFL does not involve the care of animals.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. >>
Right, but Vick's job and status within the NFL, allowed for a level of celebrity where you don't get told "no" or "that's horrible, Mike" by anyone. It also provided the financial means to continuously pay off/settle/sweep away every sh***y thing he's done previous to this.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>
<< <i>The very idea that Vick did what he did to those animals (weaker/weakened, living creatures bred only to be destroyed at his discretion) gets the opportunity to make millions of dollars again, is despicable. >>
Get over yourself. "Animal" cruelty? You mean "dog" cruelty. We wouldn't be so upset if he allowed a rabbit fighting operation out of his house, would we?
It's time society directs its anger where it will do some good. It's easy to jump on the Vick hating bandwagon when he kills some dogs, while some child molesters are released after only a few months in prison (like the guy in Seattle who was given a 6-month sentence, or the guy in Vermont who got only 60 days a couple years ago).
Of course what Vick did was wrong. But losing 2 years of his life and millions of $ is more than enough punishment for killing animals. He's paid his price and then some, IMO. >>
I can't agree more. Bottom line is that he served his time and is a FREE man. How can the NFL deny him an opportunity to make a living. The ignorance of the American legal/prison system on this board is amazing. I know there is a lot of emotion, but law and punishment is based not on emotion, but rules. Vick has paid dearly, but his legal punishment is over. If the NFL denies him a job there certainly will be a lawsuit and the NFLPA will be in a difficult position of defending one of its members, but a position it will have to take...kind of like the ACLU defending neo-nazis right to march in parades.
<< <i>Once again... playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. >>
No - playing in the NFL is a job, just like any other job. Any yes - ANY job is a privilege that someone or body is willing to pay you money for your time and effort.
However, the NFL has SAID any team that wants to hire him is free to
spend/waste their money on the project.
SIGN VICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>No Farve for Vikings!!!!
SIGN VICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
It's good to see that for Favre's entire career, people still spell his name wrong. At least he will always have that going for him.
<< <i>No Farve for Vikings!!!!
SIGN VICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
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Vick's Vikes is an interesting notion, but......
Minnesota has been relatively strong in trying to stop
dog fighting and bird fighting. They often target the
spectators pretty harshly. (That means the pols have
"public support" for such policies.)
That could make the Vikings fans less than enthusiastic.
Obviously, I dunno that for certain, tho.
With the current state of public opinion, it is going to be
tough to place him anyplace where he will feel the love.
.................
from 2008 MinnPost
"In 2008, at least eight states so far have passed legislation strengthening their animal-fighting laws.
All 50 states have declared dogfighting a felony; 37 have made birdfighting a felony; and 22 have
laws making it a felony to be a spectator at a dogfight. "
........................................
(I am against most drug laws, but it appears that most folks involved
in critter fights are also involved in "drug crimes." When/if Vick's cultural
opponents start throwing that hatchet, there will be more PR troubles
for ANY team that picks him up.)
"In some cities, police seeking to make a narcotics bust are now targeting animal fighters, knowing that
where one exists, the other is likely present. In Illinois, a three-year study by the Chicago Police Department
found that of those arrested for animal crimes — including dogfighting — 70 percent had previous arrests for
other felonies, 65 percent had past arrests for violent crimes, and 70 percent had been arrested for narcotics crimes."
I love dogs. I'll always have at least one. I think Vick is a scumbag. However, he got a sentence for his crimes and he is serving it. The guy should be permitted to get a job. If the NFL lets him play, why wouldn't some team (Raiders, Ravens, any team that hires criminals) pick him up. If the Steelers hired him, I don't think I would even watch their games on tv let along go to to Heinz Field.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
I for one hope he fails miserably..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.