If Someone Sends You a 2nd Chance Offer Do You Owe Them A Response???

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 11:53AM

I bid on $850 on this card.

1952 Mays

I was kinda glad I didn't win it due to the fact it the seller's feedback isn't steller and it is a crappy photo.

I ended up buying this card.

1952 Jackie

The seller of the Mays emailed me 6 hours after it sold saying the 2 feedback buyer of the Mays already backed out. Here is email #1.

<< do you want to buy this item? If you do its yours, the other guy backed out. >>

I planned on bidding on the Jackie so I didn't respond. I then get this email

<< can you please email me back so I know whether you want this item or not? you can buy it outright right now. take care. >>

I didn't actually read it till today due to being busy and I already bought another card. Then I get this email.

<< are you just going to ignore me or what? You bid on the card, do you want it? let me know >>

Personally I think he had a shiller bid on it for him and didn't figure it would bring that far under SMR. Am I being deushier than him?

OAKESY25 · July 10, 2009 11:57AM

you don't owe anybody anything...

Carew29 · July 10, 2009 11:57AM

I wonder if he trimmed it with those scissors in the photo.....

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 12:05PM

I like the "you bid on it" reply.

jackstraw · July 10, 2009 12:07PM

Just email him and tell him your not interested?
You don't owe him anything but maybe he is legit.

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 12:08PM

I never have had anyone ever hound me about a 2nd chance before, usually I get them and that's it.

WalterSobchak · July 10, 2009 12:14PM

You certainly don't owe him a response, but you might as well just reply to him and tell him you spent the money elsewhere. He gets closure, it costs you 5 seconds out of your day. Why not?

I would be VERY suspicious of a second chance offer on the same day the auction ends (if it's for the exact same item) from a seller with a good history.....let alone this guy.

Congrats on the beautiful '52 Jackie!

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · July 10, 2009 12:22PM

The color on this card is absolutely remarkable and could and would grade a PSA 7.

Regardless, this card would absolutely grade a PSA 7.

Well........ it looks like it didn't. lol

If I felt I wasn't shilled and still have the $, I'll buy.

Yeah, I've never been hounded like that either.

Tell him sorry for the delay in getting back, dial up email takes awhile. You spent your $ elsewhere but will recoup soon. You'll let him know on July 17th. Then ignore him...

Curious to know more about his neg. Looks like he sold a card, ended too low and he backed out of the deal. If true, trust is out the window.

Unless it was a steal...

iamthegreatcornholio · July 10, 2009 12:22PM

It sounds like textbook shilling.

The underbidder.......

jackstraw · July 10, 2009 12:44PM

What does schilling sound like

grote15 · July 10, 2009 12:59PM

I'd say his apparent desperation indicates that his plan to shill bid and sell the card to the underbidder (you) pretty much backfired on him...avoid this clown...

onefasttalon · July 10, 2009 1:04PM

I agree with everyone else... You owe this guy nothing.

I can't recall taking up a second chance offer before when it came just hours after the auctions ended... sounds WAY to much like Classic shilling.

LOVE that Jackie btw... hope I get to see it before you move it!

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · July 10, 2009 1:07PM

Offer him $700 for it.

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 1:26PM

I sent him a nice note about being busy and let him know I spent the money already. If he comes down on the price I might consider it but I am still concerned with the shilling.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · July 10, 2009 1:37PM

I'd say shilling.

Backed out of a card that went too low before. Shows his integrity.

Bought the card for $700 a month ago. Flipped for $150 more. Shill didn't work and he's 'panicing'. I'd offer less than my original bid.

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 1:53PM

I did, he isn't the smartest cookie in the jar as his feedback is clear on what his intentions were.

Good thing is by him shilling his own stuff I was able to get the Jackie instead

grote15 · July 10, 2009 2:09PM

If you decide to offer him a price on the Mays (which O'd personally pass on unless he were willing accept say $700 max), make sure he offers it to you through ebay so you are fully protected if you purchase it.

storm888 · July 10, 2009 2:19PM

No buyer "owes" a response. The response should be
made/held based on self-interest; it is not an issue of
courtesy.

The instant deal sounds shilly, to me. I would stay away.

As grote noted, NEVER do one of these deals outside of
EBAY. No SNAD-protection.

leathtech · July 10, 2009 3:53PM

just ignore the seller and move on...

JackWESQ · July 10, 2009 4:41PM

OWE him a response? Absolutely not.

Even if you were the high bidder, there's nothing he could have done to force you to send payment.

And given that you were not the high bidder, you have no obligation of any kind to the seller.

/s/ JackWESQ

Yankees001 · July 10, 2009 8:27PM

You don't owe it to any seller to respond if they are being that rude and pushy

I Usually either buy the card, or let them know I already purchased another one.

Dave

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 10:15PM

He declined to lower his price so I am assuming he is going to run it again. My offer was going to allow him only a $50 dollar profit.

InMySock · July 10, 2009 10:19PM

Like everyone else has said, you don't owe him anything.

But, what I typically do in situations where I get a Second Chance Offer, is I offer whatever the next logical eBay style bid above the bidder that was under me. For example, if I bid $200 on a card yet lost to the "high bidder", and the bidder under directly me only bid $10, when I get a second chance offer from the seller, I say that I would be willing to pay $10.50 for the card, since that is what it would have sold for if I had not been outbid.

Just because I bid $200, doesn't mean that should be what I have to pay on a SCO. I should only have to pay what I would have won the card for had the high bidder not bid.

In my mind, that is what is fair, and it is how things would have played out if it wasn't for the high bidder, even if the high bidder is legit or otherwise.

It has yet to work, by the way...

~IMS

fandango · July 10, 2009 10:19PM

2nd chance offer = you were shilled (unsuccessfully by the seller)

Morgoth · July 10, 2009 10:36PM

I think he might deserve a block as this was pretty shady.

onebamafan · July 11, 2009 2:29AM

I would say that would be considerate. Would you want one if you were the seller?

jimq112 · July 11, 2009 3:01AM

The other card that the shill bidder bid on was the 56 ted williams that he got a bad feedback for. The shill bid $399 and $475. bid history on ted williams. I don't think you owe him anything either, and with his past history looking so shaky I would pass on the card.

grote15 · July 11, 2009 3:17AM

I would say that would be considerate. Would you want one if you were the seller?

Rude scammers like this guy deserve ZERO consideration...

bobbyw8469 · July 11, 2009 5:11AM

2nd chance offer = you were shilled (unsuccessfully by the seller) :

That is not true. While it might be true in THIS case, I have used 2nd chance offers successfully when I have deadbeat bidders....

IchiroDeported · July 11, 2009 5:16AM

generally i ignore 2nd chance offers, but this guy is a douche, i would call him on the carpet for his shilling, and block him.

detroitfan2 · July 11, 2009 6:31AM

<< Like everyone else has said, you don't owe him anything.

But, what I typically do in situations where I get a Second Chance Offer, is I offer whatever the next logical eBay style bid above the bidder that was under me. For example, if I bid $200 on a card yet lost to the "high bidder", and the bidder under directly me only bid $10, when I get a second chance offer from the seller, I say that I would be willing to pay $10.50 for the card, since that is what it would have sold for if I had not been outbid.

Just because I bid $200, doesn't mean that should be what I have to pay on a SCO. I should only have to pay what I would have won the card for had the high bidder not bid.

In my mind, that is what is fair, and it is how things would have played out if it wasn't for the high bidder, even if the high bidder is legit or otherwise.

It has yet to work, by the way...

~IMS >>

This is EXACTLY how a second chance offer should work (i.e. what would the 2nd place bidder have won the card for if the highest bidder never bid).

grote15 · July 11, 2009 7:32AM

< Like everyone else has said, you don't owe him anything.

But, what I typically do in situations where I get a Second Chance Offer, is I offer whatever the next logical eBay style bid above the bidder that was under me. For example, if I bid $200 on a card yet lost to the "high bidder", and the bidder under directly me only bid $10, when I get a second chance offer from the seller, I say that I would be willing to pay $10.50 for the card, since that is what it would have sold for if I had not been outbid.

Just because I bid $200, doesn't mean that should be what I have to pay on a SCO. I should only have to pay what I would have won the card for had the high bidder not bid.

In my mind, that is what is fair, and it is how things would have played out if it wasn't for the high bidder, even if the high bidder is legit or otherwise.

It has yet to work, by the way...

~IMS >>

This is EXACTLY how a second chance offer should work (i.e. what would the 2nd place bidder have won the card for if the highest bidder never bid).

There is one major flaw with this reasoning though...most bidders use a sniping service, so if you bid $200 and the other guy bid above that amount, even if the second underbidder only bid $10.00 any snipe between $10.50 and $202.50 would not have registered or been entered, so there is no way to be sure that someone else didn't have a snipe set for say, $150.00...

onebamafan · July 11, 2009 7:38AM

<< I would say that would be considerate. Would you want one if you were the seller?

Rude scammers like this guy deserve ZERO consideration... >>

In general yes.......not in every instance though.

InMySock · July 11, 2009 8:52AM

<< 
There is one major flaw with this reasoning though...most bidders use a sniping service, so if you bid $200 and the other guy bid above that amount, even if the second underbidder only bid $10.00 any snipe between $10.50 and $202.50 would not have registered or been entered, so there is no way to be sure that someone else didn't have a snipe set for say, $150.00... >>

Exactly! If there is no bid between $10.50 and $199.99, how can the second chance offer be for my high bid $200.00?

I appreciate the point of view, but I respectfully disagree with it. For SCOs, we can only work from real, registered bids. Not implied, intended, non-registered bids.

Just my $0.02

~IMS

WinPitcher · July 11, 2009 9:24AM

Only if you want the item......

I agree with IMS in many cases, not all, but many.

Steve

CDsNuts · July 11, 2009 11:49AM

You actually owe him the money for the card, but he gets to keep the money and doesn't have to send the card at all.

grote15 · July 11, 2009 11:54AM

<<
There is one major flaw with this reasoning though...most bidders use a sniping service, so if you bid $200 and the other guy bid above that amount, even if the second underbidder only bid $10.00 any snipe between $10.50 and $202.50 would not have registered or been entered, so there is no way to be sure that someone else didn't have a snipe set for say, $150.00... >>

Exactly! If there is no bid between $10.50 and $199.99, how can the second chance offer be for my high bid $200.00?

I appreciate the point of view, but I respectfully disagree with it. For SCOs, we can only work from real, registered bids. Not implied, intended, non-registered bids.

Just my $0.02

~IMS

I believe you are missing my point...what I said was that if not for the guy who bid $200, there may very well have been another snipe set for $150, $160, what have you...in fact, most of my scheduled losing snipes are not because I bumped up the high bidder but because the bid was too high for my snipe bid to even get placed...not saying that this would be the case necessarily, but it is possible...

I don't think this case is one of those situations, however...the way I look at it, if my SCO is $200 for an item that is worth $250, I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to accept my offer of $10.50 just because there were no bids between $10 and $200..

OTOH, as a bidder, I wouldn't want to purchase an item for my high bid if that weren't a price I'd be very comfortable with...bottom line is that it comes down to value...if the card is worth $400 and I get a SCO to purchase said card for $200, I'm certainly not going to reject it only because the bid below mine was less...

InMySock · July 11, 2009 12:20PM

<< I believe you are missing my point...what I said was that if not for the guy who bid $200, there may very well have been another snipe set for $150, $160, what have you...in fact, most of my scheduled losing snipes are not because I bumped up the high bidder but because the bid was too high for my snipe bid to even get placed...not saying that this would be the case necessarily, but it is possible...

I don't think this case is one of those situations, however...the way I look at it, if my SCO is $200 for an item that is worth $250, I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to accept my offer of $10.50 just because there were no bids between $10 and $200..

OTOH, as a bidder, I wouldn't want to purchase an item for my high bid if that weren't a price I'd be very comfortable with...bottom line is that it comes down to value...if the card is worth $400 and I get a SCO to purchase said card for $200, I'm certainly not going to reject it only because the bid below mine was less... >>

No, I get your point, but we are talking about a bid that was not placed/registered, for whatever reason. There could have been another snipe, I don't disagree. I can't prove there wasn't, just like you couldn't prove there was. All we have to work with is the " high bidder", my bid, and whoever was under me (or starting price if I was the first).

All that I was originally saying was that I would not accept a SCO of my maximum bid. I would consider a SCO of whatever I would have won the auction for, if the "high bidder" had not bid. That could be $10.50 (assuming the bidder under me only bid $10), $152.50 (if he bid $150), or $200 (if he bid $199.99).

For the record, the only times I have ever offered SCOs was when I had multiples of the same card. Probably less than 10% hit rate (I don't sell anymore on eBay). Unfortunately, most buyers think they were just shilled, and reject it anyways.

grote15 · July 11, 2009 1:42PM

All that I was originally saying was that I would not accept a SCO of my maximum bid.

So, if an item worth $500 is offered to you for $200 via a SCO, you're going to decline it on principle?

I'm sure you wouldn't, which was mainly my point...that a SCO is only appealing relative to the circumstances at hand...I've had mixed success with the SCO option...I do think that if you are a reputable seller with good FB that most buyers will not suspect something nefarious at hand if you offer them am opportunity to purchase an item they missed out on...of course, it depends on the situation..

Morgoth · July 20, 2009 3:42AM

Shilly Shillsalot is at it again. Look at his bleeding heart item description.

This card would absolutely grade out to be a PSA 7 because the color, edging, corners are what a 7 should look like.

Take it back to PSA or even Beckett, and you will have yourself a card worth around $1,500.

I don't have the time to wait around to grade it, I am a poor law student, needing money.

Let me know if you need more pictures

and please, if you bid on this card, and you win the card, please pay for it. I have had too many problems with people not paying for items that they won.

Take care

mtcards · July 20, 2009 5:51AM

On the discussion of SCO, I actually agree with both sides.

A second chance offer of $200 is too high in my opinion. While an offer of $10.50 since it is the next highest "official" bid is too low. Since both sides have an unprovable situation, the only solution is to reauction, other than that since your bid was a $200 max and the actual bid under yours is $10, you might consider an offer of $105 since it splits the difference.

The buyer, if legit, may still take this offer, which is fair to both parties since you would be getting the card for half what you are willing to pay and he is getting half of what he was wanting to get.

nightcrawler · July 20, 2009 1:05PM

I got shilled and suckered into taking a second chance offer a few years ago. Never again. And I won't reply to them either.

EB22 · July 20, 2009 1:57PM

Do you owe him? Well of course you do, pay the man!

just kidding

Offer him 200 bucks and see what he says

schr1st · July 20, 2009 3:41PM

I never respond to nor do I ever send second chance responses, and don't ever feel obligated to respond to ones sent to me.

rbdjr1 · July 20, 2009 10:21PM

Interesting. Look at this: Same cert #. Run away from these guys! (One has a feedback of zero and the other 22 ??? )

Hope you do not get "Taken to the River"? Funny that both sellers are from Morgantown VW. Where's Rube when we need him?

rd

1952 Bowman Willie Mays PSA 6.5 (Auction #1)

1952 Bowman Willie Mays PSA 6.5 (Auction #2)

rbdjr1 · July 21, 2009 12:04AM

This seller seemed to have bought and paid $700 for the Mays 6.5 ??? (The plot thickens? Maybe the seller just wants to get his money back/$700 ??? Who know's ??? But to list this item under two alt IDs? Not good! Run! Don't walk!)

Link to 52 Mays

rd

NickM · July 26, 2009 2:59PM

I have purchased several items recently via SCOs where the sellers had multiple essentially identical items - Paluso lithographs (they're serial numbered, so I know the ones I got weren't the ones from the original auctions). Using SCOs on something like that can make a lot of sense for a seller. I generally wouldn't trust it on a "buyer backed out" situation.

Nick

If Someone Sends You a 2nd Chance Offer Do You Owe Them A Response???

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