Take a peek at this thread over on Blowout

kmnorton · July 2, 2009 1:44AM

Wow

Bottom9th · July 2, 2009 1:46AM

Thanks for posting...just started reading.
If you have morals it's an easy decision IMHO

Stone193 · July 2, 2009 1:48AM

<< Thanks for posting...just started reading.
If you have morals it's an easy decision IMHO >>

Word.

mike

Piman58 · July 2, 2009 2:10AM

A great read that again shows the true spirit and integrity of the majority of the hobby.

Thanks for bringing the story to our attention here.

Charles

Nathaniel1960 · July 2, 2009 2:11AM

This is a no brainer. Help her sell the cards. The first line of the story says it all: "A good family friend's husband"

You don't screw over people like this. He wouldn't get away with it anyways. Even if he bought her out at $500, someone would figure it out, and he'd be blackballed. It's not worth it.

My suggestion would be to tell her that they are worth substantially more than $500 and provide her with an inventory. Then offer to sell the cards for her and take a cut, or pick your favorite set from the lot as payment.

Even if there is no such thing as Karma, your conscience always serves as a reliable backup.

Goot · July 2, 2009 2:29AM

Glad he atleast tried to do the right thing. There are some amazing cards in that collecton...

fattymacs · July 2, 2009 2:32AM

Shouldn't even be a decision. Doing the right thing pays more dividends than a bunch of cards that will make you feel shame everytime you look at them or her.

HeritageAddict · July 2, 2009 2:34AM

It's nice that it worked out for him the way it did. Doing the right thing very rarely results in great rewards like that, but the feeling you get from doing it should be reward enough.

BunchOBull · July 2, 2009 2:36AM

Strange. I don't think I could sell a collection like that.

Goot · July 2, 2009 3:01AM

<< Strange. I don't think I could sell a collection like that. >>

Yeah I'm not sure if I could sell the entire thing. Obviously, if you need the money then do what you've gotta do. However, I'd probably pick out a lot of the cards and keep them in my personal collection.

ndleo · July 2, 2009 3:01AM

What if was a complete stranger? Does that change the equation?

wolfbear · July 2, 2009 3:06AM

WWMMD?

What would Mr. Mint do?

mtcards · July 2, 2009 3:27AM

Interesting read. I am facing a similar, but not as large a decision.

I had a woman call my store yesterday and said that her husband had passed away and he had a few collectible things she wanted to sell. Although she was vague on most of it, she did say she had two higher value items I might be interested in.

Item #1 - Michael Jordan Rookie card. Obviously there are a lot of things that go with this. Real/Counterfeit? Basketball/Baseball? Mint/Beat Up? Sticker/Regular Issue?

Item #2 - Heartland (Not sure of the name) limited edition #/125 autographed statue of Walter Payton, signed "Walter Payton, Sweetness #34"

Now obviously, there are a lot of variables that come into play with both of these items, including authenticity, rarity, condition and resale among others. I am sure the Jordan isnt graded as well. Anyway, she said she would be willing to take $100 for both items total because her kids didnt want them and she was moving to Florida and didnt want to store them. Once I see the items and reference ebay sales or other sites sale prices on the statue, I can probably get a better idea of value. With the Jordan, I think what I will do if I cannot find any signs of fake on it, I will let her know about grading and tell her I will send her the difference in price if she had come in with it already graded,

storm888 · July 2, 2009 4:07AM

<< What if (the seller) was a complete stranger? Does that change the equation? >>

/////////////////////////////////

MANY folks here will likely say the "equation" is the same.

I may have a duty to be helpful to a friend - or a friend
of a friend - but no such duty exists when dealing with
the general public.

My duty in commerce is to my business and its employees.

julen23 · July 2, 2009 4:10AM

catch 22 (of sorts),
but not really if you believe in karma

j

Nathaniel1960 · July 2, 2009 4:14AM

OK, I just read through the whole thread, and this guy is full of crapola. No way did he tell her the collection was worth six figures and she said go ahead and take it, I know you need the money b/c you are out of work.

Think about your spouse collecting something they loved, and you just let someone walk off with it, for nothing?

Either this thread was garabge from the beginning, or this guy conned this poor woman. Either way, it stinks.

Plus, I never trust anyone who puts that many emoticons on their posts. That's a tell.

storm888 · July 2, 2009 4:22AM

"...Either this thread was garabge from the beginning, ..."

////////////////////////////

That was my reaction, too.

Felt like a troll to me.

But, no way to know for sure.

WinPitcher · July 2, 2009 4:56AM

If true and it was me I'd simply tell this person that it is worth substantially more then 500.00

I'd give the person the 500.00 up front and tell this person that we would share the profits.

probably along the lines of 60 for her 40 for me with me paying all fees such as grading ebay. paypal etc.

That way I'd get at least 25 cents on every dollar.

Steve

meuandthelot · July 2, 2009 5:36AM

WOW!!
$500.00??? Original collector was a rather ardent collector, I wonder where the Ms pulled the $500 number from?
If this was my wife..she'd get a visit on the spot, at least an errie feeling that I wasn't just making up dollar numbers that I had associated with my cards & insurance policy.

Further, to add juiciness to the story..Lets see I'll scan...these 2(before my scanner crapped)..one being 6X conservatively what she's asking, the other 3-4x if real....

Closed last month**2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols AUTO RC 500
View similar active items | Sell one like this
Sold As Best Offer $3,600.00 Free shipping Jun-22 13:55

Not to mention the sets..oye!!
Whoa is me..What to do?

corvette1340 · July 2, 2009 6:35AM

Does anyone else think this whole thing is the start of a scam? He joined in April of this year and is talking about selling off this grand collection, etc...

I can just see him selling a bunch of vintage sets, Mantles, etc... and then never being heard from again once the money is sent.

One thing is for damn sure, I'd pick up anything personally if I were gonna buy from this guy.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it all just sounds too fishy. IMO

Allen · July 3, 2009 4:20AM

<< Does anyone else think this whole thing is the start of a scam? He joined in April of this year and is talking about selling off this grand collection, etc...

I can just see him selling a bunch of vintage sets, Mantles, etc... and then never being heard from again once the money is sent.

One thing is for damn sure, I'd pick up anything personally if I were gonna buy from this guy.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but it all just sounds too fishy. IMO >>

I read the whole thread today and it is either a scam in the making or a kid fantasizing. We all know that 56-78 Sets in binders plus 67-89 Football sets and 30 or 40 other sets he mentions would take up a lot of room. Add in all the other stuff he mentions it sounds like you need a truck and with that stuff probably a moving truck or something secure. I would not toss 100K of cards in the back of my pickup. He talks like he went and picked up the box and went home.

He has a crap scanner and says he might get a better one after he sells some stuff. Come on, if you are flat broke, go get a credit card or take something to the pawn shop to get a $100 scanner to scan 100K+ worth of cards.

He wants to avoid eBay, PayPal, Auction Houses, etc. WTF

He acts like a 12-13 year old kid.

storm888 · July 3, 2009 4:52AM

"Something Not Right"

.............

The proceeds of a corrupt enterprise would not be huge,
but could get into the $15K+ range. The earliest buyers
might get their merch, later buyers could have problems
and the scam would quickly crash.

The "my PM box runneth over" lingo is a red flag. As are
the items cited by Allen.

I would not deal with such a seller, unless I inspected
the items in person. Most folks don't feel that way, and
are easy to burn.

........................

I am NOT saying it's a "scam."

Just saying it looks "not right."

WinPitcher · July 3, 2009 5:59AM

I think the kid is FOS.

Steve

Barfvader · July 3, 2009 7:00AM

<< I think the kid is FOS.

Steve >>

I thought/think that as well.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · July 3, 2009 9:22AM

I expresssed concerns on there. If I become the owner of a toe tag, you'll know why.

KbKards · July 3, 2009 9:40AM

I think Mintacular found a new group to entertain.

therebelas · July 3, 2009 11:20AM

Assuming it's all legit, why not just double her offer and give her $1,000? She's getting twice what SHE apparently thinks they're worth. It's 2009; there is no reason for someone to not be able to go to the library or get a grandkid to look up the value of anything anymore.

Sorry if that's a bit harsh, but that's how I see it.

storm888 · July 3, 2009 11:22AM

<< Assuming it's all legit, why not just double her offer and give her $1,000? She's getting twice what SHE apparently thinks they're worth. It's 2009; there is no reason for someone to not be able to go to the library or get a grandkid to look up the value of anything anymore.

Sorry if that's a bit harsh, but that's how I see it. >>

///////////////////////

It's only "harsh" because the guy said the lady was a "good friend."

joestalin · July 3, 2009 11:33AM

The dead guy was probably scared to tell his wife not only how much he spent on cards, but also what his collection was worth. I have a question for those
who are married...if you died tomorrow, what would your wife be selling your cards for?

Kevin

ElToroLoco · July 3, 2009 12:47PM

It seems legit so far, and I'd give him the benefit of the doubt at this time. He seems like a novice collector that got 50K worth of cards in shoved in front of him. Hopefully it's not the same guy that advertised on Craigslist that he bought out some old guys collection,showed 87-91 Topps marked boxes but sent me scans of 50's cards. If this is true, I'd be interested in a few sets myself, maybe a collector that is local can physically verify if it's legitimate.

Edited to add: He's an advanced collector as he's done shows the last 10 years.

hammered · July 3, 2009 12:50PM

<< I think Mintacular found a new group to entertain. >>

I must have missed it - was that guy banned for his "Joe look at me" thread? He used to create a few threads a day and all of a sudden, nothing.

IchiroDeported · July 3, 2009 12:54PM

the answer is simple. sell the cards, minus 15% + fees/paypal. everyone is happy.

storm888 · July 3, 2009 1:01PM

<< the answer is simple. sell the cards, minus 15% + fees/paypal. everyone is happy. >>

/////////////

That is a BUNCH of work for 15%.

It would have to be a REALLY "good friend," for me to do that.

OTOH, if the "kid" has no instant prospects for other income, I
guess 15% might be acceptable.

Allen · July 3, 2009 1:44PM

If this was legit you could get an auction house to consign it for 0% and get your 15% for doing nothing. His scans look like he printed pictures of the cards and scanned them. All of his scans in his bucket are clear, even in thick holders, but the Pujols certified autograph in the corner is nearly illegible.

WinPitcher · July 4, 2009 12:13AM

I would not touch any collection for less then 25% of the net.

I just sold a collection for a bud and it is plenty of work.

besides putting out the dough to get cards graded, one has to list on ebay,

pay those fees and then deal with the buying public.

25 cents on the dollar is very fair.

Especially if you have a decent ebay following.

Steve

hammered · July 9, 2009 2:31PM

I wanted to revive this thread only because the seller says he has lots of offers and some may have come from board members...

So I call the guy offering to buy a few thousand $ in 70s sets. My family is traveling to the east coast in a couple weeks and we're going right through Ohio. I offered to make a detour, look at his stuff and pay cash.

He tells me no, no, he is too busy - sister's wedding coming up, etc etc. I should just let him know when I am ready to mail the full payment. I ask him why he would not spend 15 minutes to make $3000 (remember the guy is out of work and needs cash). Sorry, but for $3000 I'd ditch my sister's wedding.

He says he's got other commitments as well, and 15 minutes could turn into alot longer.

Anyway, I tell him this throws up red flags and he says "Oh well".

So I'd like to say that this guy is now "officially" FOS and please if you are one of the people that have contacted him, be careful.

storm888 · July 9, 2009 3:08PM

"...Anyway, I tell him this throws up red flags and he says "Oh well"...."

////////////////////////

Sounds like a scamarama.

Hopefully, somebody will pass the info to the other board.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · July 9, 2009 4:10PM

*raises hand.

Allen · August 3, 2009 2:21AM

Just checked back and there has not been much follow up from this guy other than a few scattered scans and saying certain things have been sold.

hammered · August 3, 2009 3:11AM

OK, since Allen resurrected the thread, I guess I'll share my experience with this guy.

I'm always buying cards and some of my best purchases have been off ebay, so I pursued a conversation with him about this 'collection'.
He was very communicative, and had specifics about his cards with scans included. I thought OK, I'll send a few hundred for specific cards and if that pans out I'll make a deal for some bigger vintage sets. I insisted on paypal and he opened a new paypal account so I could pay him this way. I sent the few hundred thru paypal.

I then offered to stop by to view his sets in person since I was taking my family to the east coast and would be in the area anyway. I posted earlier about this, so read a few posts up to get his reaction to that.

So the two cards that I bought ('57 Williams + '64 Mantle) never arrived. He contacted me with more BS about how he got the priority mailer back in the mail - it had been crushed by the post office machine and ruined the 2 cards inside! He even sent me a scan of a random priority envelope bent up (but, of course, no scans of the ruined cards - cuz they never existed). So he offered to send me a 'replacement' card and sent a scan of a VG Williams he planned to substitute for the NMMT card that he posted to the board.

More BS and more excuses followed. I filed a complaint with paypal and of course since it's an off-ebay transaction there is absolutely zero protection for the money I sent.

After 21 days, I found his phone # and called him directly. More excuses over the phone. I called him on his BS and told him I'd sue him in OH if I had to. I then called the local police in his town and spoke to a detective. They made no promises, and said that all they could probably do is to make a contact for me. I don't know if they ever did, but I got a refund two days later. He emailed me and said that he transferred $ from his bank to paypal and then sent the refund.

So it could have turned out worse for me. I am still concerned that as recently as 7/24, he was saying he has sets available for $3000-$4000. I just hope that members over there are either smarter and less trusting than I am, or do not have the $ to make these phantom "deals". I did notice he took down all the scans of cards he posted over there, so maybe I scared him a little.

The bigger lesson I learned from all this is that there is absolutely no protection for a paypal transaction that occurs off-ebay. If such a deal goes bad, paypal will reverse the funds back to you after the requisite waiting period, but how many scamsters would leave $ in their paypal accounts waiting to be reversed?

larryallen73 · August 3, 2009 3:21AM

I appreciate the update. I believed his story for about 1 second. Sorry you had to fall victim but it's really not surprising it's BS. I think your instincts were good not to send him any more than you did. Why did I think it was BS? ANYBODY that has a collection like that his wife is going to know it's worth more than $500. She may not know exactly what it's worth but she KNOWS it's worth more than five hun! Come on now.

storm888 · August 3, 2009 3:46AM

"...I filed a complaint with paypal and of course since it's an off-ebay transaction there is absolutely zero protection for the money I sent....The bigger lesson I learned from all this is that there is absolutely no protection for a paypal transaction that occurs off-ebay. If such a deal goes bad, paypal will reverse the funds back to you after the requisite waiting period, but how many scamsters would leave $ in their paypal accounts waiting to be reversed?."

/////////////////////////////////

Off-EBAY transactions are covered by the "Buyer Complaint Policy."

EBAY transactions are covered by the "Buyer Protection Policy."

The BCP "covers" INR-claims, and renders no decisions in SNAD-claims.

.........
........................

13.5 PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy

a.What is the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy?

It is PayPal’s process to help you resolve a problem directly with the seller through the PayPal Resolution Center for purchases that are not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.

The PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy is similar to PayPal Buyer Protection in that it enables buyers to file Disputes for Items Not Received (INR), or for items that are Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). By filing a Dispute, you can communicate with the seller and attempt to resolve the problem. If you are unable to resolve the problem, you may escalate an Item Not Receive (INR) Dispute to a Claim – but you may not escalate a Significantly Not as Described Dispute to a Claim.

Even though you may escalate an Item Not Received Dispute to a Claim, you are not guaranteed recovery. If the Claim is decided in your favor, your recovery is limited to the amounts that PayPal can recover from the seller’s Account.

b.What is the process for the Buyer Complaint Policy?

Similar to PayPal Buyer Protection, you must file a Dispute in the PayPal Resolution Center within 45 days of the date you sent the payment. Once you have done so, you should attempt to resolve the Dispute directly with the seller.

c.What happens if I am unable to resolve the Dispute directly with the seller?

You may escalate the Dispute to a Claim within 20 days of the date you filed the Dispute. PayPal will make a final decision for some - but not all - Claims. You should not escalate a Dispute for Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) to a Claim because PayPal will not make a decision on a SNAD Claim under the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy.

d.What if PayPal makes a final decision in my favor?

If PayPal makes a final decision in your favor, we will collect any available funds in the seller’s PayPal balance at that time. However, recovery is not guaranteed and is limited only to the amounts that PayPal can recover from the seller’s Account. Any amounts collected from the seller will be placed in your Account.

13.6 Extended Buyer Protection

a.What is Extended Buyer Protection?

Extended Buyer Protection is additional coverage for eligible Buyer Complaint Policy Claims that is available to you when you make a payment through PayPal and use your PayPal Plus Card, PayPal Buyer Credit, or PayPal Pay Later as your payment method.

b.What extra coverage do I get with Extended Buyer Protection?

If you win an Item Not Received (INR) Claim under the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item, plus original shipping costs.

.............
................
.......................

Of course, ANY PayPal transactions funded by a branded credit card
are covered by the card issuer - on/off EBAY - for INR's and SNADs.

Knopfler · August 3, 2009 3:59AM

<< Of course, ANY PayPal transaction funded by a branded credit card
are covered by the card issuer - on/off EBAY - for INR's and SNADs. >>

Yes! Always fund your paypal payment with a credit card if it is for any significant amount of money. That has saved me a couple of times, most recently for about $5 grand with LRCards. Paypal would not cover it but my credit card did.

Take a peek at this thread over on Blowout

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