Paypal Help - big time!

bhelser · June 9, 2009 2:07AM

a group of friends and I sold a set of cards on Ebay last week.....bidding went well, and we ended up selling it for a little over $500 (we expected 2-300).......

the "winner" crapped out on us almost immediately, stating his bid was an error, blah, blah, blah......he sent us a little money (PP) as a sorry.

We sent a 2nd chance offer to 2nd place, and it was accepted.

buyer paid, item shipped (well packaged, sig confirmation).

The $$ was transferred to the bank on Saturday, and was currently in the "on hold" position........buyer files a SNAD

at what point is the money "ours" and at what point does PP still have access to it?

WinPitcher · June 9, 2009 2:12AM

seller files? are you not the seller?

I'm lost on this one.

Steve

bhelser · June 9, 2009 2:12AM

my bad...edited to show the BUYER filed SNAD

WinPitcher · June 9, 2009 2:15AM

If you meant the buyer filed a SNAD and the buyer was the original winner that crapped out on you I don't know what to tell you.

If you meant the 2nd place person that accepted the item filed it I think you may lose the money and he sends the item back.

If you meant none of the above and are simply waiting for PP to release the funds then they usually do that after the buyer

leaves feedback or if you provide a sig or del. confirmation.

Steve

bhelser · June 9, 2009 2:16AM

2nd chance buyer filed the SNAD.

money was "in the process of being transferred"

WinPitcher · June 9, 2009 2:18AM

I think that he has to return the item and then you have to refund the money.

Of course that is if PP sides with him.

Steve

dizzle · June 9, 2009 2:26AM

What's the buyers problem with the item? Does he feel the set was overgraded ot something?

storm888 · June 9, 2009 2:28AM

A transfer of funds from a PayPal account via ACH
that has NOT yet been credited to the destination
account can be stopped/reversed by PP.

When the SNAD claim is decided in favor of the buyer,
the buyer will be told to return the merch to the seller.

When the buyer proves he has returned the merch to
the seller, the buyer will receive a refund from the
seller's PP account.

If the seller's account is empty, the buyer in an EBAY
transaction will be refunded by PP, and PP will commence
collection action against the seller.

WinPitcher · June 9, 2009 2:33AM

What's the buyers problem with the item? Does he feel the set was overgraded ot something?

The 'buyer' feels it was sold not as described.

If that is true is another story.

Steve

bhelser · June 9, 2009 2:34AM

buyer stated that the centering was way off on the few that he looked at (set was 220 cards) The few that he looked at were the key cards and they were scanned into the auction to show condition and centering

WinPitcher · June 9, 2009 2:39AM

What prevents this guy from switching out a few cards and replacing them with some duds?

I don't like selling full sets or lots with too many cards in them.

Good luck on this.

Steve

storm888 · June 9, 2009 2:51AM

<< buyer stated that the centering was way off on the few that he looked at (set was 220 cards) The few that he looked at were the key cards and they were scanned into the auction to show condition and centering >>

/////////////////////

It is hard for a seller to win a SNAD claim, under that set of facts.

NOT impossible to win, but VERY labor intensive. And, you have
to know exactly how to phrase/draft your response.

Unless it is huge money, it is better to offer the buyer a refund
and have him return the merch.

(Expect some of the returned cards to be switched or missing.
You might prevail on this issue with PayPal, and you might not;
most likely NOT.)

.......

It is not smart to sell expensive items on EBAY, using PayPal
as the payment method. Since PP is the only payment method
most sellers are allowed to accept, it is best to be very cautious
about what kinds of items are sold.

In general, SNAD claims filed in the sale of slabbed-cards are
easier to defeat than are such claims filed in the sale of raw
cards.

.......

On venues other than EBAY, PayPal is safe for sellers because
there is no such thing as a "decided SNAD claim."

dizzle · June 9, 2009 2:51AM

<< What's the buyers problem with the item? Does he feel the set was overgraded ot something?

The 'buyer' feels it was sold not as described.

If that is true is another story.

Steve >>

No kidding Steve? I know the buyer feels it was not as described which is why he filed a SNAD but I was curious to what exactly was wrong weather the buyer felt he had altered cards, overgraded, etc.

bhelser · June 9, 2009 2:53AM

here is the auction in question

Topps Chrome Orange Set

no claims made regarding condition (although I have a feeling that doesn't mean ANYTHING)

bhelser · June 9, 2009 3:17AM

looking into the future......if the set comes back with damage or OBVIOUS signs that the cards aren't the ones sent (using the auction photos as proof).....can this go back the other way

storm888 · June 9, 2009 3:18AM

<< here is the auction in question

Topps Chrome Orange Set

no claims made regarding condition (although I have a feeling that doesn't mean ANYTHING) >>

/////////////////

It is possible for a seller to win, but it is difficult.

READ what EBAY and PayPal consider a "SNAD" item.

READ and undersatnd what EBAY and PayPal consider
NOT to be a "SNAD" item.

The "buyer got what was described" is at the heart of
ANY SNAD defense.

storm888 · June 9, 2009 3:22AM

<< looking into the future......if the set comes back with damage or OBVIOUS signs that the cards aren't the ones sent (using the auction photos as proof).....can this go back the other way >>

///////////////////////////

It "can" go back the other way, but it is difficult to make it so.

It's a he said/he said controversy and those are tough to argue
before the monkeys at PayPal and EBAY.

TheTalkingWalnut · June 9, 2009 3:27AM

A similar thing happened to me last year and that's when I quit using ebay. Anybody who continue to sell on ebay is running this risk.

Actually, it's not a bad scam as far as scams go. The buyer could send you back a box of poop and as long as he "proved" to paypal that he "sent" you "something" by showing them a delivery confirmation to a package sent to your address, those scumbags refund his money and tell you to get lost. I know how unfair and unrealistic it sounds, but when it happened to me I felt like a black guy in 1930s Alabama - they make the rules, they ignore the rules, they change the rules, they make you feel like you're the bad guy, they decide your punishment, they take your money AND your property and then make YOU apologize...

I'm sorry this is happening to you but it may be your wakeup call to stop using ebay.

bhelser · June 9, 2009 3:56AM

thanks for the help guys, sounds like we are pretty much screwed at this point.

Hopefully everything works out (sarcastic eye roll) and we can offer it to the 3rd highest bidder when it comes back.

is there any validity to opening a package that comes back in front of the post master ...... just in case it is a box-o-rocks?

Allen · June 9, 2009 4:04AM

He will send you a brick in a box and PayPal will give him a refund for keeping your item.

storm888 · June 9, 2009 4:04AM

"...is there any validity to opening a package that comes back in front of the post master ...... just in case it is a box-o-rocks? ..."

////////////////////////////////

You can do that.

In some cases, it has helped the seller. And, in some
cases it has not.

bhelser · June 17, 2009 2:27PM

douchebag who returned the set decided to keep 2 cards for himself

and the freebies that were thrown in....

storm888 · June 17, 2009 2:36PM

You can complain to PayPal about the TWO missing cards.

I would not complain about the "freebies."

You can also leave a response about the SCUM in the FB he leaves you.

mtcards · June 17, 2009 2:52PM

Checking out this dude's "Feedback left for others", seems he has a lot of bad luck seeing as how he has left negs or neuts for over two dozen items.

He has been added to my BBL for sure

bhelser · June 18, 2009 1:13AM

<< You can complain to PayPal about the TWO missing cards.

I would not complain about the "freebies."

You can also leave a response about the SCUM in the FB he leaves you. >>

yeah, complaint sent to PP

and his NEG was responded to

WinPitcher · June 18, 2009 3:52AM

This person is also a seller.

Steve

bhelser · June 18, 2009 8:53AM

oh so very true

Paypal Help - big time!

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