I like what this guy says in his auction (in the red box) about Ebay's ridiculous 5-star rating system. All sellers should put this in their listings. I cannot believe he was suspended for a sub-4.3 rating with 3000+, 100% feedback.
It's quite obvious that free shipping is the way ebay wants its sellers to go...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree with the seller. The ratings are stupid because eBay really doesn't explain the ramifications to sellers reps. That getting only 4 stars or possibly lower in some categories and how that will impact their ability to offer up products on eBay's site, ie... suspended sellers or sellers that just leave eBay and look for alternative places to peddle their goods.
I think eBay is slowly killing itself with all the new stupid rules and by forcing sellers under their thumb. The next fee raise has got to be around the corner and I'm sure it will help clear out a bunch of sellers from doing business on their site. Which in turn will be bad for buyers too.
With that said, I think this seller in particular use to have higher shipping rates and now has lowered them to a more reasonable level as compared to other sellers. I remember them having like $6.95 shipping on $20 cards, which is very high in my opinion. Looking at their DSR's for shipping, they're at 4.4 and no doubt got some warning email from ebay about a possible suspension if they didn't get that number up.
They now are charging $5 for shipping and insurance which is reasonable to me.
Honestly to me, the magic number for shipping is $4 . On a graded card, if the shipping is $4 or less, I'm happy. When it's higher than that, then I really do adjust my bidding accordingly and factor it into the deal on my max. bid. When it's $4 or less I never even think about it at all when I place my bids.
Contrary to maybe other buyers views, I don't bid more on an item when the shipping is free.
I've done business in the past with Tony, via his website, and he's a great guy, but though he makes some valid points concerning eBay's 5-Star rating system, I agree with Dave (Yankees001) that $5 is an excessive charge to send 1 card.
Even if bidders figure the $5 S&H into their final bids, they most likely still feel cheated in a way; that's just the way it's being perceived.
A flat shipping cost format may seem fair to Tony, but apparently it doesn't to many of his buyers.
Telling buyers NOT to bid on your items for that reason could result in a persistant buyer leaving an even lower score.
Although I agree with the seller that the 5-Star system is not understood well by many buyers the fact is it is doing exactly what it is intended to do in this situation which is deter sellers that overcharge on shipping. $5 per item is worthy of a 3 or 4 at best.
as a buyer and seller on ebay, i feel that your shipping you will be paying is figured into your bid....do you agree so far?? when you bid and confirm your bid in this process, you are agreeing to those terms...I do...I would rather sell a 5.00 product for 1 cent and 4.99 shipping than 5.00 and no shipping just to keep a few cents from the pockets of feebay.. when a seller buys from a dealer, agrees to his fees and then leaves a low feedback, he will soon see the dealers he buys from disappear...just my erratic two cents worth....here is a thought............BOYCOTT FEEBAY FOR 2 WEEKS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS....10 CENT LISTINGS....
OK, his shipping was too high and he was forced to lower his rates. That's good I suppose, but I'm with the last poster - if you don't like the shipping cost, don't bid. The problem is ebay fails to explain to buyers the damage that an apparently decent 4-star rating can have.
I, like many sellers, do this part time (I am a high school teacher and coach). And I have 4 kids. So my days are relatively full and I do not always make it to the P.O. due to my schedule.
As a result, I'm not the fastest shipper. I might get a package to you in 6-7 days instead of 4 days. Some buyers have left me 3 or 4 stars in the shipping time column. That was fine with me, until a few months ago, I started getting "warning messages" from ebay every time I listed an item that said "your rating is almost below 4.5 stars" after which time disciplinary action would be taken. I also have 100% feedback so it was hard to believe I'd be suspended for this.
But, there is also some merit in the notion that buyers should not buy from sellers whose terms are not acceptable.
As a seller, I have not had a shipping-fee dispute for years. EBAY provided the remedy by making the site BIN-friendly.
I use "free" shipping and simply add the costs into the BIN price. SO EASY.
............
Commodity items have always been best moved via BIN. In the current depressed economy, it is only wothwhile for sellers with exceptional items to use the auction format.
If I decide I want to give stuff away, I certainly will not pay EBAY auction fees to do so. BINs assure that sellers get the price they want, if an item sells; and, everything sells eventually.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong.
<< <i>"..$5 per item is worthy of a 3 or 4 at best..."
////////////////////////////////
"That is true."
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong. >>
As the EBAY PSer rep was quoted in the subject seller's listing:
"It Is What It Is."
Buyers ARE going to bid on stuff they want, even if the terms are not "5-Star worthy."
Sellers have NO control over that.
Sellers CAN control/eliminate any controversy by using BINs with "free" shipping, or by keeping their S+H fees in line with the NOT reasonable expectations of the buyer pool.
Since sellers KNOW the prospective results of their actions, they really have no one to blame but themselves when buyers ding stars for "high S+H."
Sellers who cannot deal with the system have LOTS of other options on the internet. ALL are more work than EBAY, but they work fairly well and will work better as time passes.
Looking for "fairness" on EBAY is a silly thing to do. Expecting buyers to behave like sellers want them to is a futile hope.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
I will give every seller on eBay a 1 star rating for charging me 5 dollars and then sending it a PWE with a single stamp in a toploader.
But I will stay that the 5 star system is complete crap as well. I had no idea that they affected sellers to such a degree...if I get an item in 3 days in a bubble envelope, etc. Then that is what I call AVERAGE. So I all most always gave 3 to 4 stars. You had to go above and beyond for me to 5 star some seller.
Fair enough, I do think $5 is a high for say an ungraded card like a '75 Johnny Bench. But on some of the other cards, like the Jordan, it is reasonable. Because sellers are ultimately responsible for an undelivered item, you are almost forced to charge insurance on high dollar items. Insurance for a $100 item I believe is around $2.50 now. So if you add $2 for actual shipping +.50 for other packing materials, etc. $5 is not out of line.
I do not think buyers clearly understand the actual cost to the seller and never will until they stand in our shoes. This misunderstanding has even worsened with increased postal rates, and like I said earlier, the need for sellers to send things with required insurance...
If shipping charges are clearly listed. If I am charged what was listed you will receive 5 stars from me. I am likely to bid lower amounts or pass completely on auctions if I feel shipping is excessive.
I tend to agree closely with Storm's reasoning on this one. I also agree with the view that eBay is pushing sellers more toward offering free shipping, which from a buyer's perspective is great.
I work at a fairly large online retailer, and here's what I know: buyers do NOT like to pay for shipping. We've conducted extensive market research on this, and the results always come back the same. They either want it for free or they want promotions that give them a way to get it free (say by reaching a certain $ hurdle). Plenty of retailers offer either of these options, and so to operate outside of this is to make you much less competitive. We don't offer free shipping, but we offer $ hurdles, and customers still ding us for it. But, that doesn't mean we don't want those customers buying from us. That just means they're expressing a sentiment about shipping. We don't have to agree with it, but we absolutely have to find ways to continually improve in our customer satisfaction around shipping prices.
As a seller, I always offer free shipping, but I use BIN and factor it into the price. This is a very good option for sellers who are upset with the whole rating system w/r/t shipping. My DSR is 4.9 and close to getting the round up to 5.0.
As a buyer, I expect low to free shipping because that's what is available in the marketplace from other sellers. I don't understand this argument that just because a seller discloses the shipping price that they deserve 5 stars. If the rate is not reasonable, I may still agree to pay it, but I DO NOT have to be happy about it. Guys like TonyeTrade should learn from their ratings that his customers obviously aren't happy with shipping prices. He can either b$tch about about it in his listing description which, in my opinion, does him no favors with buyers, list BIN w/ free shipping, or ditch eBay.
Buyers are giving feedback through the 5 star system. Is their feedback fair? To me, that is not even a relevant question. Is it fair that my company gets dinged on customer satisfaction surveys on shipping? Again, not the right question. The right question is how we can improve in the eye of the customer along this metric while still being able to turn a profit.
It's about giving the customer what they want while still being able to make $. If you can do it charging for shipping, great. For me, it's been far more profitable to NOT charge for shipping given all the fees I've saved from maintaining high DSRs. That's what eBay wants, and it's certainly worked for me.
As a powerseller who is at the mercy of this rule as well, I actually think the "idea" has merit, but the implementation is for the birds.
I like Tony. I have bought from him before and will buy from him again. BUT, when a seller is making, or is perceived to be making, money on shipping charges, a buyer should be able to call him/her out on it. When people charge .99 buyout for an item, then $5 shipping, which you see all the time, it is a sham and should be dealt with.
When a seller overgrades raw, it is nice to be able to describe at item as less than accurate without leaving a strike on the seller.
When an otherwise perfect transaction takes two weeks to receive, without a heads up, it deserves mention... etc.
I completely disagree with any move toward free shipping costs.
I buy and sell in about equal number. But as a seller, I would simply not list items that will not sell for over $10. Why would I list a card that will sell for $5 when I have to pay $3-4 to ship it?
As far as factoring it into BIN's, this is fine if you have an ebay store full of BINs. But ebay is an auction site, not simply an online store. BINs remove every aspect of competitive auction bidding. Even from a buyer's perspective, I dislike BINs. I don't like when I see an auction ended an hour after it was listed with a BIN way before other prospective buyers (like myself) even had a chance.
I look at shipping as a service above and beyond the actual product purchased and it therefore should be a separate charge. When I sell an item, I purchase supplies (envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, tape), I take time to pack and address the package. I then take my time and spend my fuel to go to the P.O, wait in line, so that you can have this item delivered to your doorstep. I think that service is worth something.
<< <i>I completely disagree with any move toward free shipping costs.
I buy and sell in about equal number. But as a seller, I would simply not list items that will not sell for over $10. Why would I list a card that will sell for $5 when I have to pay $3-4 to ship it?
As far as factoring it into BIN's, this is fine if you have an ebay store full of BINs. But ebay is an auction site, not simply an online store. BINs remove every aspect of competitive auction bidding. Even from a buyer's perspective, I dislike BINs. I don't like when I see an auction ended an hour after it was listed with a BIN way before other prospective buyers (like myself) even had a chance.
I look at shipping as a service above and beyond the actual product purchased and it therefore should be a separate charge. When I sell an item, I purchase supplies (envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, tape), I take time to pack and address the package. I then take my time and spend my fuel to go to the P.O, wait in line, so that you can have this item delivered to your doorstep. I think that service is worth something. >>
For items < $10, I wouldn't sell them on eBay either unless you can get your selling costs below $3-4 (nobody likes shipping becoming 30% of the total cost of a card. Otherwise, I would stick to higher $ cards.
With the BINs, I migrated to them because eBay changed the fee structure in a way that benefits me. I don't buy using BIN, but I don't begrudge eBay to moving more toward BINs. Sure, it started as an auction site, but they're going to do whatever they feel will help them earn the most $. I don't feel slighted by it, though. If it bothered me that much, I would seriously consider ditching eBay altogether.
Shipping is a service, I agree, and it definitely is worth something. So is a customer support center that we staff for our online retail sales. But, I don't agree with your implicit assumption that just because something is a service that you have to charge money for it. We can think of lots of complimentary services across myriad of businesses that don't charge a fee but may be recaptured somewhere else or recouped through repeat purchases and customer loyalty.
At the end of the day, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But, I always look at eBay changes as an opportunity to benefit and drive more sales. If I can figure out a way to do that, I continue and grow my business on eBay. If I don't, I look for opportunities elsewhere.
Moving sellers to free shipping (i.e., shipping built into the price) is bad for buyers who like to take advantage of multiple item shipping discounts, because the seller will work into the buy price the shipping for one item going by itself. I had a purchase from 4SC recently where shipping averaged out to less than $0.32/card. Lots of those cards were picked up at $3 opening bids. There is no way that they would list those cards for $3.50 each with free shipping, because of their costs in shipping one or a few cards to a buyer. I would end up either paying more for what I buy, buying less, or some combination of those two.
Oh, and as for the ratings I leave, it has to be pretty bad before I don't leave 5s across the board.
<< <i>"..$5 per item is worthy of a 3 or 4 at best..."
////////////////////////////////
"That is true."
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong. >>
Rating someone on S&H has nothing to do with communication, speed, or anything but the S&H charge itself. The others are rated individually as well. Ebay has clear guidelines for what S&H should constitute and unless the buyer can justify $5 being spent on the actual shipping and handling of the card itself, compared to other sellers it is not a 5 rating. You & me may be informed and factor it into the bid BUT there are a lot of bidders that are naive, sellers know this and take advantage of it, which is why Ebay is quite obviously trying to drive S&H a certain direction. If a seller can't deal with this fact then they probably should be using a different site to sell other than Fleabay.
<< <i>I will give every seller on eBay a 1 star rating for charging me 5 dollars and then sending it a PWE with a single stamp in a toploader.
But I will stay that the 5 star system is complete crap as well. I had no idea that they affected sellers to such a degree...if I get an item in 3 days in a bubble envelope, etc. Then that is what I call AVERAGE. So I all most always gave 3 to 4 stars. You had to go above and beyond for me to 5 star some seller. >>
Base the rating on when they ship it, not when you get it.
Free shipping is the greatest scam ever devised, and buyers love it. Let's raise all the prices by $3.00 so we can give away $1.50 actual cost of shipping for free. Gotta love those multiple item buyers. Somebody buys 5 items, paying $15 hidden free shipping, and cost to ship is only $3 to ship. 5 stars all the way.
Pushing sellers toward offering free shipping is part of a calculated strategy to bring eBay in line with other third-party e-commerce platforms such as Amazon where many of their merchants also offer free shipping.
There's also a section about the feedback changes. It was interesting to read about the contrasting experiences of two ebay sellers with the recent changes. Clearly the large volume, commodity-type seller is reaping huge rewards with the changes similar to Jack Sheng in the article.
Anyway, food for thought. I'm no eBay apologist, but I always like to better understand the reasons behind their recent changes to their business model, and in that regard this article is very helpful.
Here's the copy/paste. The formatting isn't perfect, but an interesting read nonetheless.
Auctions Fade in eBay's Bid for Growth
By GEOFFREY A. FOWLER
SAN JOSE, Calif. -- EBay Inc. is remaking its e-commerce marketplace to combat declining sales. In the process, it has pitted merchants such as Jack Sheng and Walt Kolenda against each other.
Mr. Sheng describes his company, eForCity Corp., as a "mini Wal-Mart." It buys electronics accessories from China and sells 4.3 million of them each year to people looking for deals online. After eBay made it cheaper and easier to list products in large quantities for sale last year, his eBay sales in April were up 46% from a year before. The site's changes have "helped good sellers come out ahead," he says.
Not for Mr. Kolenda, a professional antiques auctioneer who runs his eBay business out of his house. He's the model of the classic eBay sellers who drove the site's huge growth earlier in the decade. But last year his listings fell to less than 10 items a week from a peak of 100, he says, because he grew frustrated with the complexity and pace of changes at the site. Now he says eBay has become a casual interest, not a main source of income.
The two sellers' clashing experiences show how eBay's turnaround strategy is generating an identity crisis for the e-commerce giant. Its community of 25 million sellers is caught between two images of eBay: its early identity as a quirky flea market known for online auctions, and a shift to being more of a bargain basement offering fixed-price goods in bulk.
"EBay used to have a very distinct community culture," says Skip McGrath, who has sold grills and other home-and-garden items on the site for a decade and has written nine books on how to make money on eBay. "Now," he contends, "it's like eBay doesn't know who it is."
The eBay metamorphosis, spearheaded by Chief Executive John Donahoe, comes as the company grapples with slower sales amid a broader shift in Internet shopping habits. EBay helped pioneer e-commerce in the 1990s with its online auctions, but rivals such as Amazon.com Inc. have gained ground with an ever-growing selection of fixed-price items and often with free shipping. Search engines and comparison-shopping sites have also chipped away at eBay's auction system, by making bargain items easier to find on other sites.
EBay has had sliding revenue and profit in the past two quarters, while Amazon has reported record earnings. Over the past 12 months, while Amazon's stock is off 6%, eBay's is down 43%.
Mr. Donahoe, a 49-year-old former Bain & Co. consultant, took over as CEO when Meg Whitman retired early last year. His plan to get the company growing again includes investing in its online-payment service, PayPal, and shedding non-e-commerce businesses such as Internet phone service Skype. In October, eBay announced layoffs of 10% of its 16,000 workers.
Changing Identity
At the heart of his strategy are changes to eBay's online marketplace, which sold nearly $60 billion in merchandise last year and generates over half of the company's $8.5 billon in annual revenue. Mr. Donahoe has told investors he will focus on building the site's business in the "secondary market," a slice of retail that includes out-of-season and overstock items as well as the used and antique items eBay is known for.
Asked about eBay's identity, Mr. Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale Corp. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview.
To that end, Mr. Donahoe is shifting the site's emphasis away from auctions and toward fixed-price listings. The moves have divided sellers, some of whom complain that big merchants now have an edge. Some longtime sellers, including those with unusual inventory that draws people to the site, are giving up on eBay and moving their business elsewhere. Of the top 100 U.S. eBay sellers in January 2008, 16% were no longer active in the first quarter of this year.
Mr. Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping.
EBay had better relationships with its sellers earlier this decade, when its auction system was still catching on with consumers and fueled torrid growth. During the tech-bust year of 2001, eBay's revenue grew 74% and its stock more than doubled, as investors embraced its no-inventory, no-warehouse model.
Sellers like Mr. Sheng used the site to launch new businesses. Now 33 years old, Mr. Sheng started eForCity in his garage with two friends in 1999. He began by selling cellphone accessories from China, then moved into other electronic items. Now his closely held business has $40 million in yearly revenue, employs 250 and splits its operations between El Monte, Calif., and China. While he also sells through Amazon and his own site, eBay remains his largest outlet, he says.
Mr. Kolenda, 48, also began selling on eBay in 1999. The Barre, Mass., resident used eBay to earn extra cash in the winter months, when his business of estate-sales auctions was slow. The enterprise was small: At his peak, says Mr. Kolenda, who goes by "Auctionwally," he made about $35,000 in profit from eBay sales.
By 2005, eBay's growth was tailing off as the novelty of auctions faded. That year, Ms. Whitman recruited Mr. Donahoe to run the online marketplace. While the pair improved the site's look and feel, they shied away from more radical adaptations to shifts that were taking place in e-commerce. In 2007, for the first time, eBay's listings of items for sale declined.
New Fee Structure
At the start of 2008, when Ms. Whitman retired and Mr. Donahoe took over, he said at a public event: "We need to redo our playbook, we need to redo it fast and we need to take bold actions." That same day, he unveiled a new fee structure.
It reduced the charge to post items and increased what eBay collected when an item sold. For example, the fee to list a $25 auction item dropped to $1 from $1.20, but eBay's sales commission on an item of that price rose to 8.75% from 5.25%. Mr. Donahoe says the move helped align eBay's interests with those of its best sellers.
It was a boon for Mr. Sheng, the vendor of electronic goods. Listing fees were his main advertising expense, because he put up at least half a million items for sale a month, but sold only about 20% of them. Overall, the new fee structure with lower listing fees reduced his costs by 12%. He then put 60% more listings on eBay.
Mr. Kolenda was in a different situation. Listing fees weren't so important to him, because he was listing only a few hundred items a month at most. But sales commissions mattered a lot because he sold most of the items he did list. EBay's higher-commission fee structure increased his cost of doing business by 5%. "They tried to pitch this as a fee reduction," Mr. Kolenda says.
EBay made clear at the time of the changes that while it was cutting some fees, others would rise. It said sellers preferred this structure because it reduced their risk if an item didn't sell. But some sellers were so unhappy about the changes that they organized a brief boycott of eBay in February 2008. Mr. Kolenda says he didn't join the boycott, but he complains that his products started to get lost in a flood of new listings from larger merchants.
One reason was a change eBay made in what customers see first when they search for types of items. Before, the first items to pop up were those for which an auction was about to end. Sellers developed ways to game that system, such as trying to make their auctions expire at times of the week when buyers were most active.
Mr. Donahoe installed an entirely new system to determine which items appear first in a search. It uses a complicated formula that takes into account price and how well an item's seller ranks in customer satisfaction. The change meant that highly rated merchants got more exposure on the site. EBay also offered fee discounts to the best-rated sellers.
Mr. Sheng's initial customer-satisfaction rating was 4.4 out of 5, just above the 4.3 that eBay considers a minimum. To raise his rating, he hired five more customer-service employees, for a total of 30. He also invested in new software to upgrade his service. By June 2008, his rating had risen to 4.6.
Even more impressive, the percentage of his items that sold rose by half, to 30%, as his listings surfaced more often near the top of search results.
Mr. Kolenda, without the resources to hire customer-service people, had a tougher time with the new system. After watching one part of his rating slip to 4.2 last year, he sought to get customers to give him better ratings by explaining to them the mechanics of eBay's new system. He soon managed to raise his score to 4.8, but he says the new emphasis on customer service also doubled the amount of time he had to spend on each sale.
Rating Buyers
In another change, eBay quit letting sellers leave negative ratings for buyers. EBay says it wanted to stop sellers from retaliating against buyers who gave them poor customer-satisfaction scores. But Mr. Kolenda says that with the change, sellers lost protection from buyers who withheld payment or paid very late.
Withholding payment was a bigger issue for someone like him -- selling relatively expensive items -- than for businesses like Mr. Sheng's that sell less-expensive merchandise. Mr. Kolenda says that after he lost the ability to rate buyers negatively, his rate of slow-paying and nonpaying buyers tripled.
Mr. Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry.
In June 2008, an annual eBay sellers' conference in Chicago grew heated as sellers grilled and sometimes booed company executives.
Fixed-Price Emphasis
Nonetheless, he continued to roll out changes. He wanted to emphasize fixed-price items, not just auctions, which he believed had become too cumbersome for some shoppers. In August 2008, Mr. Donahoe announced eBay was sharply cutting listing fees again -- for products offered at a fixed price.
While listing an item for auction could still cost up to $4, sellers of fixed-price items could now pay a flat rate of 35 cents for a 30-day listing, which included multiple copies of the item. Some large online retailers began to list hundreds of thousands of items on eBay.
That change initially caught Mr. Sheng off guard. His technology was designed only to maximize sales by placing new auction listings. After a few months of revenue decline, he invested in software that syncs his inventory with the new priorities of eBay's search engines. His eBay sales, which used to come almost entirely from auction-style listings, now come about 50% from fixed-price listings. He says his sales in the first quarter of 2009 were up 20% from a year earlier.
Late last year, eBay celebrated Mr. Sheng as its first merchant to gain positive reviews from more than a million unique customers. It named a room after him at its headquarters. EBay's changes "are truly part of the requirements to keep the eBay marketplace healthy and vibrant for the long haul," Mr. Sheng says.
Mr. Kolenda, selling goods whose intrinsic value is uncertain, must continue to rely on auctions to try to establish the price. The addition of many more fixed-price listings and the new way searches work diluted his presence on the eBay site. Last year, Mr. Kolenda began exploring alternative online marketplaces such as Bonanzle.com and video auction site Dealitlive.com, with which he has just taken a job as a consultant.
"Now I can't really afford the time to list on eBay," he says. He thinks that "the folks running eBay now don't understand the auction business."
So far, Mr. Donahoe's changes haven't improved eBay's financials. He predicts the company will catch up to the pace of growth in the rest of e-commerce next year -- which Forrester Research puts at 13%, in the U.S. -- and will grow faster than the industry in the following year.
Mr. Donahoe says eBay's makeover isn't creating a zero-sum game for big merchants and antiques auctioneers, in which one must lose if the other wins. "We aren't dictating who's successful and not successful on eBay," he says. "All we're doing is ensuring that the sellers who provide the things that buyers want get exposure and positive reinforcement."
Write to Geoffrey A. Fowler at geoffrey.fowler@wsj.com
The problem with the system is that 4/5 is a GOOD rating, i.e., positive, on every other scale in the world and actually is described as good when you click the stars. Then Ebay punishes power sellers for receiving 4s. Doesn't make sense.
"...Asked about eBay's identity, Mr Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview...."
"..Mr Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping..."
"...Mr Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry..."
.........
JD's and Meg's incompetence is paying for my new Winnebago.
IF their JUNK stock ever gets above $25 again, I will have a matching houseboat, after I cover at $10+......... AGAIN.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
"...Asked about eBay's identity, Mr Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview...."
"..Mr Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping..."
"...Mr Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry..."
.........
JD's and Meg's incompetence is paying for my new Winnebago.
IF their JUNK stock ever gets above $25 again, I will have a matching houseboat, after I cover at $10+......... AGAIN. >>
They've already failed in their quest to best Amazon as a third-party merchant platform. eBay once was offering unbelievable incentives for fixed-price, online retailers to set up eBay marketplaces. Buy.com is their biggest win to date, but they have failed against Amazon.
Now, they see themselves competing against Costco? Costco is really, really good at what they do. They make very low margin % on their goods, sell in high volume, and the quality is very, very high. Also, they have great customer support and return policies. All these things combined make it hard for me to believe that eBay could ever match--much less best--Costco.
I just think they aren't really sure what the strategy should be, so they are grasping at straws. While I don't short stocks, I can certainly see the logic in Storm's doing so.
"...I just think they aren't really sure what the strategy should be, so they are grasping at straws...."
//////////////////////////////
Step ONE:
FIRE JD.
IF Norrington can be unbrainwashed, give her 12-months to FIX the thing. If her head is ruined, toss her with JD.
Step TWO:
Dump Skype at whatever the original owners will pay for it.
Step THREE:
Spinoff PayPal in an IPO that vests 50% of the new shares in current EBAY shareholders.
Step FOUR:
Bring the trapped BILLIONS home from offshore. Pay the taxes and use the balance to buyback EBAY shares.
Step FIVE:
Fire 50% of managers/supervisors that have been hired or promoted in the past five-years.
Step SIX:
Eliminate ALL outsourced service contracts. Hire local workers at prevailing wages in existing US call center locations.
Step SEVEN:
Make a serious and firm commitment to a "ZERO Tolerance" fraud policy. Cooperate with fraud-busters and IP-owners instead of threatening them and litigating against them. (Behaving like an evil RICO-enterprise got us where we are; STOP IT.)
Step EIGHT:
Bifurcate the platform. One portal for HUGE/small retailers with BINs. One portal for collectibles and garage sale items with BINs and Auctions. Entry to both remains at the EBAY homepage.
Step NINE:
STOP micro-managing the sales/service policies of sellers. Absent fraud or non-delivery of merch, mind your own biznez. The market knows how to cull bad sellers; "star-systems" only catch dolphins, and allow most ALL of the sharks to keep swimming.
Step TEN:
Try all of the above and then get back to me, if you still need help. I will not expect to hear from you.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>OK, his shipping was too high and he was forced to lower his rates. That's good I suppose, but I'm with the last poster - if you don't like the shipping cost, don't bid. The problem is ebay fails to explain to buyers the damage that an apparently decent 4-star rating can have.
I, like many sellers, do this part time (I am a high school teacher and coach). And I have 4 kids. So my days are relatively full and I do not always make it to the P.O. due to my schedule.
As a result, I'm not the fastest shipper. I might get a package to you in 6-7 days instead of 4 days. Some buyers have left me 3 or 4 stars in the shipping time column. That was fine with me, until a few months ago, I started getting "warning messages" from ebay every time I listed an item that said "your rating is almost below 4.5 stars" after which time disciplinary action would be taken. I also have 100% feedback so it was hard to believe I'd be suspended for this. >>
I also teach and coach and have kids and sell on ebay and it never takes me 3-4 days to ship out someone's item... I just use paypal to print out postage and tape it to a bubble mailer. It really on takes a matter of seconds to accomplish. If I have time I'll drop it off at the PO if not it just goes in my mailbox and the postman picks it up when he drops off my mail. I just don't understand why people say this is so time consuming when steps can be take to make the process so simple!
What I also find funny is someone’s rational for charging high shipping prices when I know for a fact something can be shipped out in a bubble mailer in most case for around $2.50 without the seller having to take a loss on shipping.
Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars.
just from my ebay experience as a seller I found that most of my buyers never sell on ebay.. now, I am a collector first and ebay seller second, so i do buy alot on the bay....When i do sell, i sell my lower end items first and most of my items are under 20.00 for the most part,..perhaps even under 10.00 auctions......the buyer is not too aware of the rating system, which sucks and does not give much thought to his actions on improper rating feedback.... now how would this be??? the same feedback implementation for buyers ??? you bid on a card and agree to the terms of a shipping $$$ charge...then you leave less than adequate feedback rating?????...THEY SHOULD TAKE OUT THAT PART OF THE FEEDBACK!!!!!!!!!!!! REMOVE IT FROM THE RATING SYSTEM......If they feel that the shipping charge was too high, they should not bid on it !!!!!!!!!!! I have heard of dealers getting less than 5.0 even with free shipping???????????????????? WHEN ALL THE SELLERS LEAVE {AND EVENTUALLY THEY WILL} WHERE WILL ALL THESE UNSATISFIED BUYERS BE BUYING FROM?? THANKS FOR LETTING ME VENT......
Can't disagree with any of your comments as usual, Storm. I think this is the most telling statistic:
"Of the top 100 U.S. eBay sellers in January 2008, 16% were no longer active in the first quarter of this year."
I just hope eBid's new listing tool comes out sooner rather than later.
<< <i>"...I just think they aren't really sure what the strategy should be, so they are grasping at straws...."
//////////////////////////////
Step ONE:
FIRE JD.
IF Norrington can be unbrainwashed, give her 12-months to FIX the thing. If her head is ruined, toss her with JD.
Step TWO:
Dump Skype at whatever the original owners will pay for it.
Step THREE:
Spinoff PayPal in an IPO that vests 50% of the new shares in current EBAY shareholders.
Step FOUR:
Bring the trapped BILLIONS home from offshore. Pay the taxes and use the balance to buyback EBAY shares.
Step FIVE:
Fire 50% of managers/supervisors that have been hired or promoted in the past five-years.
Step SIX:
Eliminate ALL outsourced service contracts. Hire local workers at prevailing wages in existing US call center locations.
Step SEVEN:
Make a serious and firm commitment to a "ZERO Tolerance" fraud policy. Cooperate with fraud-busters and IP-owners instead of threatening them and litigating against them. (Behaving like an evil RICO-enterprise got us where we are; STOP IT.)
Step EIGHT:
Bifurcate the platform. One portal for HUGE/small retailers with BINs. One portal for collectibles and garage sale items with BINs and Auctions. Entry to both remains at the EBAY homepage.
Step NINE:
STOP micro-managing the sales/service policies of sellers. Absent fraud or non-delivery of merch, mind your own biznez. The market knows how to cull bad sellers; "star-systems" only catch dolphins, and allow most ALL of the sharks to keep swimming.
Step TEN:
Try all of the above and then get back to me, if you still need help. I will not expect to hear from you. >>
Those arguing that "if the buyer does not agree with the shipping charge then don' t bid" are missing an important point IMO. Just because a buyer is aware of the charge and he chooses to bid, doesn't mean that the charge is "very reasonable".
$4 for a stamp and plain envelope is not the same as $4 for a well-packed bubble mailer. As a buyer, I compare the price to the effort and rate accordingly. If it's clear that the shipping was materially marked up (e.g., $10 for a $5 flat rate box), I believe that it warrants a less than "very reasonable" rating. Even free shipping warrants a poor rating if the seller was careless and did not properly secure the item. As a seller, I generally use BINs and price accordingly.
Lastly, I agree with Jasen (leathtech) -- It doesn't take two minutes to properly package an item if you are halfway organized.
If they drive the antiques and collectibles from Ebay then there's no reason for people to go to Ebay. You can't buy that kind of stuff at CostCo, but there's lots of places to go buy new store goods cheap. Ebay's acting like they are a company like CostCo who actually inventories and sells stuff. They do nothing but offer the venue for other people to sell stuff and their fees and policies make it very difficult for real businesses to be profitable using Ebay to sell their goods. If I go to Ebay wanting to beat a price I see on CostCo I'll probably end up having to deal with some shakey looking seller dealing in seconds, returns, and stolen goods.
The problem with the system is that 4/5 is a GOOD rating, i.e., positive, on every other scale in the world and actually is described as good when you click the stars. Then Ebay punishes power sellers for receiving 4s. Doesn't make sense.
JBills makes a good point. Most people have been to high school, where a B is considered to be a good grade. A student with a B average will not get suspended from school.
The main problem is the wording associated with 4 stars: accurate, satisfied, quickly, reasonable. For eBay's system to work properly, they need to add "not" before each of these four words.
If PSA decided to adopt the eBay grading system, then a 1952 Mantle graded PSA 9 would be OK (but just barely), while a PSA 8 Mantle would be worthless.
<< <i>Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars. >>
You seem to be using ebay's false logic - that is, if you cannot get the product in the buyer's hand in 3-4 days, you are not acting properly as a seller. If you cannot conform to ebay's new definition of their ideal seller, you should be weeded off the site. And that, I believe, is their intention after reading the WSJ article. And when you leave less than 5 stars for a transaction (unless there were serious problems with it), then you are helping accomplish that transition.
It doesn't always takes me 6-7 days to ship, it depends on what else is going on at that time in my life. I am also at the whim of the PO. Living in WYO, everything here goes through Denver, which is not always speedy since I do not live within 5 hours of a big city. Some packages have taken almost two weeks even if mailed next day. Sometimes it's like living in Russia...
I'd even accept 3-4 category stars as a result of my situation. But my point is that if ebay considers this a failing grade then they need to take more steps to make buyers informed about the ratings. Some buyers might enjoy the items I sell, even if it does take a couple days longer for them to arrive. They might be willing to leave 5 stars anyway.
In the long run, I will not remember if an item took 3 or 6 days to get to me. But I will be sorry if small sellers are forced off the site.
This is especially true of the sports collectibles industry, where there are very few large conglomerates selling what we collect.
<< <i>Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars. >>
You seem to be using ebay's false logic - that is, if you cannot get the product in the buyer's hand in 3-4 days, you are not acting properly as a seller. If you cannot conform to ebay's new definition of their ideal seller, you should be weeded off the site. And that, I believe, is their intention after reading the WSJ article. And when you leave less than 5 stars for a transaction (unless there were serious problems with it), then you are helping accomplish that transition.
It doesn't always takes me 6-7 days to ship, it depends on what else is going on at that time in my life. I am also at the whim of the PO. Living in WYO, everything here goes through Denver, which is not always speedy since I do not live within 5 hours of a big city. Some packages have taken almost two weeks even if mailed next day. Sometimes it's like living in Russia...
I'd even accept 3-4 category stars as a result of my situation. But my point is that if ebay considers this a failing grade then they need to take more steps to make buyers informed about the ratings. Some buyers might enjoy the items I sell, even if it does take a couple days longer for them to arrive. They might be willing to leave 5 stars anyway.
In the long run, I will not remember if an item took 3 or 6 days to get to me. But I will be sorry if small sellers are forced off the site.
This is especially true of the sports collectibles industry, where there are very few large conglomerates selling what we collect. >>
I never said I need the item in 3-4 days I just said if it takes you that long to get the item shipped then there is a problem... I fully understand the the buyer has no control over how long it takes the USPS takes to get something from A to B. What sellers do have control over is how long it takes to get the whole process started. If the seller is shipping something out 4 days after I have paid then I would consider dinging their stars.
Comments
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think eBay is slowly killing itself with all the new stupid rules and by forcing sellers under their thumb. The next fee raise has got to be around the corner and I'm sure it will help clear out a bunch of sellers from doing business on their site. Which in turn will be bad for buyers too.
With that said, I think this seller in particular use to have higher shipping rates and now has lowered them to a more reasonable level as compared to other sellers. I remember them having like $6.95 shipping on $20 cards, which is very high in my opinion. Looking at their DSR's for shipping, they're at 4.4 and no doubt got some warning email from ebay about a possible suspension if they didn't get that number up.
They now are charging $5 for shipping and insurance which is reasonable to me.
Honestly to me, the magic number for shipping is $4 . On a graded card, if the shipping is $4 or less, I'm happy. When it's higher than that, then I really do adjust my bidding accordingly and factor it into the deal on my max. bid. When it's $4 or less I never even think about it at all when I place my bids.
Contrary to maybe other buyers views, I don't bid more on an item when the shipping is free.
But I'm a cynic.
Either way, my bid has been entered.
$5 is very hi priced, unless insurance is included.
Dave
Even if bidders figure the $5 S&H into their final bids, they most likely still feel cheated in a way; that's just the way it's being perceived.
A flat shipping cost format may seem fair to Tony, but apparently it doesn't to many of his buyers.
Telling buyers NOT to bid on your items for that reason could result in a persistant buyer leaving an even lower score.
JMHO,
PoppaJ
The problem is ebay fails to explain to buyers the damage that an apparently decent 4-star rating can have.
I, like many sellers, do this part time (I am a high school teacher and coach). And I have 4 kids. So my days are relatively full and I do not always make it to the P.O. due to my schedule.
As a result, I'm not the fastest shipper. I might get a package to you in 6-7 days instead of 4 days. Some buyers have left me 3 or 4 stars in the shipping time column. That was fine with me, until a few months ago, I started getting "warning messages" from ebay every time I listed an item that said "your rating is almost below 4.5 stars" after which time disciplinary action would be taken. I also have 100% feedback so it was hard to believe I'd be suspended for this.
////////////////////////////////
That is true.
But, there is also some merit in the notion that buyers should
not buy from sellers whose terms are not acceptable.
As a seller, I have not had a shipping-fee dispute for years.
EBAY provided the remedy by making the site BIN-friendly.
I use "free" shipping and simply add the costs into the
BIN price. SO EASY.
............
Commodity items have always been best moved via BIN.
In the current depressed economy, it is only wothwhile
for sellers with exceptional items to use the auction format.
If I decide I want to give stuff away, I certainly will not pay
EBAY auction fees to do so. BINs assure that sellers get
the price they want, if an item sells; and, everything sells
eventually.
////////////////////////////////
"That is true."
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong.
<< <i>"..$5 per item is worthy of a 3 or 4 at best..."
////////////////////////////////
"That is true."
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
As the EBAY PSer rep was quoted in the subject seller's listing:
"It Is What It Is."
Buyers ARE going to bid on stuff they want, even if the terms are
not "5-Star worthy."
Sellers have NO control over that.
Sellers CAN control/eliminate any controversy by using BINs with
"free" shipping, or by keeping their S+H fees in line with the NOT
reasonable expectations of the buyer pool.
Since sellers KNOW the prospective results of their actions, they
really have no one to blame but themselves when buyers ding stars
for "high S+H."
Sellers who cannot deal with the system have LOTS of other
options on the internet. ALL are more work than EBAY, but
they work fairly well and will work better as time passes.
Looking for "fairness" on EBAY is a silly thing to do. Expecting
buyers to behave like sellers want them to is a futile hope.
But I will stay that the 5 star system is complete crap as well. I had no idea that they affected sellers to such a degree...if I get an item in 3 days in a bubble envelope, etc. Then that is what I call AVERAGE. So I all most always gave 3 to 4 stars. You had to go above and beyond for me to 5 star some seller.
I do not think buyers clearly understand the actual cost to the seller and never will until they stand in our shoes. This misunderstanding has even worsened with increased postal rates, and like I said earlier, the need for sellers to send things with required insurance...
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
I work at a fairly large online retailer, and here's what I know: buyers do NOT like to pay for shipping. We've conducted extensive market research on this, and the results always come back the same. They either want it for free or they want promotions that give them a way to get it free (say by reaching a certain $ hurdle). Plenty of retailers offer either of these options, and so to operate outside of this is to make you much less competitive. We don't offer free shipping, but we offer $ hurdles, and customers still ding us for it. But, that doesn't mean we don't want those customers buying from us. That just means they're expressing a sentiment about shipping. We don't have to agree with it, but we absolutely have to find ways to continually improve in our customer satisfaction around shipping prices.
As a seller, I always offer free shipping, but I use BIN and factor it into the price. This is a very good option for sellers who are upset with the whole rating system w/r/t shipping. My DSR is 4.9 and close to getting the round up to 5.0.
As a buyer, I expect low to free shipping because that's what is available in the marketplace from other sellers. I don't understand this argument that just because a seller discloses the shipping price that they deserve 5 stars. If the rate is not reasonable, I may still agree to pay it, but I DO NOT have to be happy about it. Guys like TonyeTrade should learn from their ratings that his customers obviously aren't happy with shipping prices. He can either b$tch about about it in his listing description which, in my opinion, does him no favors with buyers, list BIN w/ free shipping, or ditch eBay.
Buyers are giving feedback through the 5 star system. Is their feedback fair? To me, that is not even a relevant question. Is it fair that my company gets dinged on customer satisfaction surveys on shipping? Again, not the right question. The right question is how we can improve in the eye of the customer along this metric while still being able to turn a profit.
It's about giving the customer what they want while still being able to make $. If you can do it charging for shipping, great. For me, it's been far more profitable to NOT charge for shipping given all the fees I've saved from maintaining high DSRs. That's what eBay wants, and it's certainly worked for me.
I like Tony. I have bought from him before and will buy from him again. BUT, when a seller is making, or is perceived to be making, money on shipping charges, a buyer should be able to call him/her out on it. When people charge .99 buyout for an item, then $5 shipping, which you see all the time, it is a sham and should be dealt with.
When a seller overgrades raw, it is nice to be able to describe at item as less than accurate without leaving a strike on the seller.
When an otherwise perfect transaction takes two weeks to receive, without a heads up, it deserves mention... etc.
JMHO.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
I buy and sell in about equal number. But as a seller, I would simply not list items that will not sell for over $10. Why would I list a card that will sell for $5 when I have to pay $3-4 to ship it?
As far as factoring it into BIN's, this is fine if you have an ebay store full of BINs. But ebay is an auction site, not simply an online store. BINs remove every aspect of competitive auction bidding. Even from a buyer's perspective, I dislike BINs. I don't like when I see an auction ended an hour after it was listed with a BIN way before other prospective buyers (like myself) even had a chance.
I look at shipping as a service above and beyond the actual product purchased and it therefore should be a separate charge.
When I sell an item, I purchase supplies (envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, tape), I take time to pack and address the package. I then take my time and spend my fuel to go to the P.O, wait in line, so that you can have this item delivered to your doorstep. I think that service is worth something.
<< <i>I completely disagree with any move toward free shipping costs.
I buy and sell in about equal number. But as a seller, I would simply not list items that will not sell for over $10. Why would I list a card that will sell for $5 when I have to pay $3-4 to ship it?
As far as factoring it into BIN's, this is fine if you have an ebay store full of BINs. But ebay is an auction site, not simply an online store. BINs remove every aspect of competitive auction bidding. Even from a buyer's perspective, I dislike BINs. I don't like when I see an auction ended an hour after it was listed with a BIN way before other prospective buyers (like myself) even had a chance.
I look at shipping as a service above and beyond the actual product purchased and it therefore should be a separate charge.
When I sell an item, I purchase supplies (envelopes, boxes, bubble wrap, tape), I take time to pack and address the package. I then take my time and spend my fuel to go to the P.O, wait in line, so that you can have this item delivered to your doorstep. I think that service is worth something. >>
For items < $10, I wouldn't sell them on eBay either unless you can get your selling costs below $3-4 (nobody likes shipping becoming 30% of the total cost of a card. Otherwise, I would stick to higher $ cards.
With the BINs, I migrated to them because eBay changed the fee structure in a way that benefits me. I don't buy using BIN, but I don't begrudge eBay to moving more toward BINs. Sure, it started as an auction site, but they're going to do whatever they feel will help them earn the most $. I don't feel slighted by it, though. If it bothered me that much, I would seriously consider ditching eBay altogether.
Shipping is a service, I agree, and it definitely is worth something. So is a customer support center that we staff for our online retail sales. But, I don't agree with your implicit assumption that just because something is a service that you have to charge money for it. We can think of lots of complimentary services across myriad of businesses that don't charge a fee but may be recaptured somewhere else or recouped through repeat purchases and customer loyalty.
At the end of the day, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But, I always look at eBay changes as an opportunity to benefit and drive more sales. If I can figure out a way to do that, I continue and grow my business on eBay. If I don't, I look for opportunities elsewhere.
I had a purchase from 4SC recently where shipping averaged out to less than $0.32/card. Lots of those cards were picked up at $3 opening bids.
There is no way that they would list those cards for $3.50 each with free shipping, because of their costs in shipping one or a few cards to a buyer.
I would end up either paying more for what I buy, buying less, or some combination of those two.
Oh, and as for the ratings I leave, it has to be pretty bad before I don't leave 5s across the board.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>"..$5 per item is worthy of a 3 or 4 at best..."
////////////////////////////////
"That is true."
Actually that's no true, it's called being a jerk. They knew it was $5 before bidding and worked $5 in on the overall cost. They placed a bid and won and they didn't have to pay one cent more than what they were told upfront the cost would be. They received a great item quickly and now they want to punish the seller for doing nothing wrong. >>
Rating someone on S&H has nothing to do with communication, speed, or anything but the S&H charge itself. The others are rated individually as well. Ebay has clear guidelines for what S&H should constitute and unless the buyer can justify $5 being spent on the actual shipping and handling of the card itself, compared to other sellers it is not a 5 rating. You & me may be informed and factor it into the bid BUT there are a lot of bidders that are naive, sellers know this and take advantage of it, which is why Ebay is quite obviously trying to drive S&H a certain direction. If a seller can't deal with this fact then they probably should be using a different site to sell other than Fleabay.
<< <i>I will give every seller on eBay a 1 star rating for charging me 5 dollars and then sending it a PWE with a single stamp in a toploader.
But I will stay that the 5 star system is complete crap as well. I had no idea that they affected sellers to such a degree...if I get an item in 3 days in a bubble envelope, etc. Then that is what I call AVERAGE. So I all most always gave 3 to 4 stars. You had to go above and beyond for me to 5 star some seller. >>
Base the rating on when they ship it, not when you get it.
I guess the only thing I can do to bring it up is to slip a buck or two in there.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
Pushing sellers toward offering free shipping is part of a calculated strategy to bring eBay in line with other third-party e-commerce platforms such as Amazon where many of their merchants also offer free shipping.
There's also a section about the feedback changes. It was interesting to read about the contrasting experiences of two ebay sellers with the recent changes. Clearly the large volume, commodity-type seller is reaping huge rewards with the changes similar to Jack Sheng in the article.
Anyway, food for thought. I'm no eBay apologist, but I always like to better understand the reasons behind their recent changes to their business model, and in that regard this article is very helpful.
////////////////////////////
The article is for subscribers only.
I'll look around for a cut/paste on another site.
Auctions Fade in eBay's Bid for Growth
By GEOFFREY A. FOWLER
SAN JOSE, Calif. -- EBay Inc. is remaking its e-commerce marketplace to combat declining sales. In the process, it has pitted merchants such as Jack Sheng and Walt Kolenda against each other.
Mr. Sheng describes his company, eForCity Corp., as a "mini Wal-Mart." It buys electronics accessories from China and sells 4.3 million of them each year to people looking for deals online. After eBay made it cheaper and easier to list products in large quantities for sale last year, his eBay sales in April were up 46% from a year before. The site's changes have "helped good sellers come out ahead," he says.
Not for Mr. Kolenda, a professional antiques auctioneer who runs his eBay business out of his house. He's the model of the classic eBay sellers who drove the site's huge growth earlier in the decade. But last year his listings fell to less than 10 items a week from a peak of 100, he says, because he grew frustrated with the complexity and pace of changes at the site. Now he says eBay has become a casual interest, not a main source of income.
The two sellers' clashing experiences show how eBay's turnaround strategy is generating an identity crisis for the e-commerce giant. Its community of 25 million sellers is caught between two images of eBay: its early identity as a quirky flea market known for online auctions, and a shift to being more of a bargain basement offering fixed-price goods in bulk.
"EBay used to have a very distinct community culture," says Skip McGrath, who has sold grills and other home-and-garden items on the site for a decade and has written nine books on how to make money on eBay. "Now," he contends, "it's like eBay doesn't know who it is."
The eBay metamorphosis, spearheaded by Chief Executive John Donahoe, comes as the company grapples with slower sales amid a broader shift in Internet shopping habits. EBay helped pioneer e-commerce in the 1990s with its online auctions, but rivals such as Amazon.com Inc. have gained ground with an ever-growing selection of fixed-price items and often with free shipping. Search engines and comparison-shopping sites have also chipped away at eBay's auction system, by making bargain items easier to find on other sites.
EBay has had sliding revenue and profit in the past two quarters, while Amazon has reported record earnings. Over the past 12 months, while Amazon's stock is off 6%, eBay's is down 43%.
Mr. Donahoe, a 49-year-old former Bain & Co. consultant, took over as CEO when Meg Whitman retired early last year. His plan to get the company growing again includes investing in its online-payment service, PayPal, and shedding non-e-commerce businesses such as Internet phone service Skype. In October, eBay announced layoffs of 10% of its 16,000 workers.
Changing Identity
At the heart of his strategy are changes to eBay's online marketplace, which sold nearly $60 billion in merchandise last year and generates over half of the company's $8.5 billon in annual revenue. Mr. Donahoe has told investors he will focus on building the site's business in the "secondary market," a slice of retail that includes out-of-season and overstock items as well as the used and antique items eBay is known for.
Asked about eBay's identity, Mr. Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale Corp. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview.
To that end, Mr. Donahoe is shifting the site's emphasis away from auctions and toward fixed-price listings. The moves have divided sellers, some of whom complain that big merchants now have an edge. Some longtime sellers, including those with unusual inventory that draws people to the site, are giving up on eBay and moving their business elsewhere. Of the top 100 U.S. eBay sellers in January 2008, 16% were no longer active in the first quarter of this year.
Mr. Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping.
EBay had better relationships with its sellers earlier this decade, when its auction system was still catching on with consumers and fueled torrid growth. During the tech-bust year of 2001, eBay's revenue grew 74% and its stock more than doubled, as investors embraced its no-inventory, no-warehouse model.
Sellers like Mr. Sheng used the site to launch new businesses. Now 33 years old, Mr. Sheng started eForCity in his garage with two friends in 1999. He began by selling cellphone accessories from China, then moved into other electronic items. Now his closely held business has $40 million in yearly revenue, employs 250 and splits its operations between El Monte, Calif., and China. While he also sells through Amazon and his own site, eBay remains his largest outlet, he says.
Mr. Kolenda, 48, also began selling on eBay in 1999. The Barre, Mass., resident used eBay to earn extra cash in the winter months, when his business of estate-sales auctions was slow. The enterprise was small: At his peak, says Mr. Kolenda, who goes by "Auctionwally," he made about $35,000 in profit from eBay sales.
By 2005, eBay's growth was tailing off as the novelty of auctions faded. That year, Ms. Whitman recruited Mr. Donahoe to run the online marketplace. While the pair improved the site's look and feel, they shied away from more radical adaptations to shifts that were taking place in e-commerce. In 2007, for the first time, eBay's listings of items for sale declined.
New Fee Structure
At the start of 2008, when Ms. Whitman retired and Mr. Donahoe took over, he said at a public event: "We need to redo our playbook, we need to redo it fast and we need to take bold actions." That same day, he unveiled a new fee structure.
It reduced the charge to post items and increased what eBay collected when an item sold. For example, the fee to list a $25 auction item dropped to $1 from $1.20, but eBay's sales commission on an item of that price rose to 8.75% from 5.25%. Mr. Donahoe says the move helped align eBay's interests with those of its best sellers.
It was a boon for Mr. Sheng, the vendor of electronic goods. Listing fees were his main advertising expense, because he put up at least half a million items for sale a month, but sold only about 20% of them. Overall, the new fee structure with lower listing fees reduced his costs by 12%. He then put 60% more listings on eBay.
Mr. Kolenda was in a different situation. Listing fees weren't so important to him, because he was listing only a few hundred items a month at most. But sales commissions mattered a lot because he sold most of the items he did list. EBay's higher-commission fee structure increased his cost of doing business by 5%. "They tried to pitch this as a fee reduction," Mr. Kolenda says.
EBay made clear at the time of the changes that while it was cutting some fees, others would rise. It said sellers preferred this structure because it reduced their risk if an item didn't sell. But some sellers were so unhappy about the changes that they organized a brief boycott of eBay in February 2008. Mr. Kolenda says he didn't join the boycott, but he complains that his products started to get lost in a flood of new listings from larger merchants.
One reason was a change eBay made in what customers see first when they search for types of items. Before, the first items to pop up were those for which an auction was about to end. Sellers developed ways to game that system, such as trying to make their auctions expire at times of the week when buyers were most active.
Mr. Donahoe installed an entirely new system to determine which items appear first in a search. It uses a complicated formula that takes into account price and how well an item's seller ranks in customer satisfaction. The change meant that highly rated merchants got more exposure on the site. EBay also offered fee discounts to the best-rated sellers.
Mr. Sheng's initial customer-satisfaction rating was 4.4 out of 5, just above the 4.3 that eBay considers a minimum. To raise his rating, he hired five more customer-service employees, for a total of 30. He also invested in new software to upgrade his service. By June 2008, his rating had risen to 4.6.
Even more impressive, the percentage of his items that sold rose by half, to 30%, as his listings surfaced more often near the top of search results.
Mr. Kolenda, without the resources to hire customer-service people, had a tougher time with the new system. After watching one part of his rating slip to 4.2 last year, he sought to get customers to give him better ratings by explaining to them the mechanics of eBay's new system. He soon managed to raise his score to 4.8, but he says the new emphasis on customer service also doubled the amount of time he had to spend on each sale.
Rating Buyers
In another change, eBay quit letting sellers leave negative ratings for buyers. EBay says it wanted to stop sellers from retaliating against buyers who gave them poor customer-satisfaction scores. But Mr. Kolenda says that with the change, sellers lost protection from buyers who withheld payment or paid very late.
Withholding payment was a bigger issue for someone like him -- selling relatively expensive items -- than for businesses like Mr. Sheng's that sell less-expensive merchandise. Mr. Kolenda says that after he lost the ability to rate buyers negatively, his rate of slow-paying and nonpaying buyers tripled.
Mr. Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry.
In June 2008, an annual eBay sellers' conference in Chicago grew heated as sellers grilled and sometimes booed company executives.
Fixed-Price Emphasis
Nonetheless, he continued to roll out changes. He wanted to emphasize fixed-price items, not just auctions, which he believed had become too cumbersome for some shoppers. In August 2008, Mr. Donahoe announced eBay was sharply cutting listing fees again -- for products offered at a fixed price.
While listing an item for auction could still cost up to $4, sellers of fixed-price items could now pay a flat rate of 35 cents for a 30-day listing, which included multiple copies of the item. Some large online retailers began to list hundreds of thousands of items on eBay.
That change initially caught Mr. Sheng off guard. His technology was designed only to maximize sales by placing new auction listings. After a few months of revenue decline, he invested in software that syncs his inventory with the new priorities of eBay's search engines. His eBay sales, which used to come almost entirely from auction-style listings, now come about 50% from fixed-price listings. He says his sales in the first quarter of 2009 were up 20% from a year earlier.
Late last year, eBay celebrated Mr. Sheng as its first merchant to gain positive reviews from more than a million unique customers. It named a room after him at its headquarters. EBay's changes "are truly part of the requirements to keep the eBay marketplace healthy and vibrant for the long haul," Mr. Sheng says.
Mr. Kolenda, selling goods whose intrinsic value is uncertain, must continue to rely on auctions to try to establish the price. The addition of many more fixed-price listings and the new way searches work diluted his presence on the eBay site. Last year, Mr. Kolenda began exploring alternative online marketplaces such as Bonanzle.com and video auction site Dealitlive.com, with which he has just taken a job as a consultant.
"Now I can't really afford the time to list on eBay," he says. He thinks that "the folks running eBay now don't understand the auction business."
So far, Mr. Donahoe's changes haven't improved eBay's financials. He predicts the company will catch up to the pace of growth in the rest of e-commerce next year -- which Forrester Research puts at 13%, in the U.S. -- and will grow faster than the industry in the following year.
Mr. Donahoe says eBay's makeover isn't creating a zero-sum game for big merchants and antiques auctioneers, in which one must lose if the other wins. "We aren't dictating who's successful and not successful on eBay," he says. "All we're doing is ensuring that the sellers who provide the things that buyers want get exposure and positive reinforcement."
Write to Geoffrey A. Fowler at geoffrey.fowler@wsj.com
Here is the full WSJ article.
Aussie Link
"...Asked about eBay's identity, Mr Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview...."
"..Mr Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping..."
"...Mr Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry..."
.........
JD's and Meg's incompetence is paying for my new Winnebago.
IF their JUNK stock ever gets above $25 again, I will have a matching
houseboat, after I cover at $10+......... AGAIN.
<< <i>The incredibly blind vision of JD:
"...Asked about eBay's identity, Mr Donahoe said he wants shopping on the site to offer the same sort of low-price experience as buying at bulk retailer Costco Wholesale. There, "the inventory is somewhat fluid, but everything they've got is a great deal," he says in an interview...."
"..Mr Donahoe says that some sellers won't be able to make the transition as eBay changes, but that a transformation is essential. "We have to create a marketplace where we're helping our sellers give our buyers what they want," he says, which he believes increasingly includes a fixed price, quick service and free shipping..."
"...Mr Donahoe says eBay was an aberration among e-commerce sites in allowing sellers to rate buyers, and he needed to bring it into line with the rest of the industry..."
.........
JD's and Meg's incompetence is paying for my new Winnebago.
IF their JUNK stock ever gets above $25 again, I will have a matching
houseboat, after I cover at $10+......... AGAIN. >>
They've already failed in their quest to best Amazon as a third-party merchant platform. eBay once was offering unbelievable incentives for fixed-price, online retailers to set up eBay marketplaces. Buy.com is their biggest win to date, but they have failed against Amazon.
Now, they see themselves competing against Costco? Costco is really, really good at what they do. They make very low margin % on their goods, sell in high volume, and the quality is very, very high. Also, they have great customer support and return policies. All these things combined make it hard for me to believe that eBay could ever match--much less best--Costco.
I just think they aren't really sure what the strategy should be, so they are grasping at straws. While I don't short stocks, I can certainly see the logic in Storm's doing so.
//////////////////////////////
Step ONE:
FIRE JD.
IF Norrington can be unbrainwashed, give her 12-months
to FIX the thing. If her head is ruined, toss her with JD.
Step TWO:
Dump Skype at whatever the original owners will pay for it.
Step THREE:
Spinoff PayPal in an IPO that vests 50% of the new shares
in current EBAY shareholders.
Step FOUR:
Bring the trapped BILLIONS home from offshore. Pay the taxes
and use the balance to buyback EBAY shares.
Step FIVE:
Fire 50% of managers/supervisors that have been hired or promoted
in the past five-years.
Step SIX:
Eliminate ALL outsourced service contracts. Hire local workers at prevailing
wages in existing US call center locations.
Step SEVEN:
Make a serious and firm commitment to a "ZERO Tolerance" fraud policy.
Cooperate with fraud-busters and IP-owners instead of threatening them
and litigating against them. (Behaving like an evil RICO-enterprise got us
where we are; STOP IT.)
Step EIGHT:
Bifurcate the platform. One portal for HUGE/small retailers with BINs. One
portal for collectibles and garage sale items with BINs and Auctions. Entry
to both remains at the EBAY homepage.
Step NINE:
STOP micro-managing the sales/service policies of sellers. Absent fraud
or non-delivery of merch, mind your own biznez. The market knows how
to cull bad sellers; "star-systems" only catch dolphins, and allow most
ALL of the sharks to keep swimming.
Step TEN:
Try all of the above and then get back to me, if you still need help.
I will not expect to hear from you.
<< <i>OK, his shipping was too high and he was forced to lower his rates. That's good I suppose, but I'm with the last poster - if you don't like the shipping cost, don't bid.
The problem is ebay fails to explain to buyers the damage that an apparently decent 4-star rating can have.
I, like many sellers, do this part time (I am a high school teacher and coach). And I have 4 kids. So my days are relatively full and I do not always make it to the P.O. due to my schedule.
As a result, I'm not the fastest shipper. I might get a package to you in 6-7 days instead of 4 days. Some buyers have left me 3 or 4 stars in the shipping time column. That was fine with me, until a few months ago, I started getting "warning messages" from ebay every time I listed an item that said "your rating is almost below 4.5 stars" after which time disciplinary action would be taken. I also have 100% feedback so it was hard to believe I'd be suspended for this. >>
I also teach and coach and have kids and sell on ebay and it never takes me 3-4 days to ship out someone's item... I just use paypal to print out postage and tape it to a bubble mailer. It really on takes a matter of seconds to accomplish. If I have time I'll drop it off at the PO if not it just goes in my mailbox and the postman picks it up when he drops off my mail. I just don't understand why people say this is so time consuming when steps can be take to make the process so simple!
What I also find funny is someone’s rational for charging high shipping prices when I know for a fact something can be shipped out in a bubble mailer in most case for around $2.50 without the seller having to take a loss on shipping.
Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars.
"Of the top 100 U.S. eBay sellers in January 2008, 16% were no longer active in the first quarter of this year."
I just hope eBid's new listing tool comes out sooner rather than later.
<< <i>"...I just think they aren't really sure what the strategy should be, so they are grasping at straws...."
//////////////////////////////
Step ONE:
FIRE JD.
IF Norrington can be unbrainwashed, give her 12-months
to FIX the thing. If her head is ruined, toss her with JD.
Step TWO:
Dump Skype at whatever the original owners will pay for it.
Step THREE:
Spinoff PayPal in an IPO that vests 50% of the new shares
in current EBAY shareholders.
Step FOUR:
Bring the trapped BILLIONS home from offshore. Pay the taxes
and use the balance to buyback EBAY shares.
Step FIVE:
Fire 50% of managers/supervisors that have been hired or promoted
in the past five-years.
Step SIX:
Eliminate ALL outsourced service contracts. Hire local workers at prevailing
wages in existing US call center locations.
Step SEVEN:
Make a serious and firm commitment to a "ZERO Tolerance" fraud policy.
Cooperate with fraud-busters and IP-owners instead of threatening them
and litigating against them. (Behaving like an evil RICO-enterprise got us
where we are; STOP IT.)
Step EIGHT:
Bifurcate the platform. One portal for HUGE/small retailers with BINs. One
portal for collectibles and garage sale items with BINs and Auctions. Entry
to both remains at the EBAY homepage.
Step NINE:
STOP micro-managing the sales/service policies of sellers. Absent fraud
or non-delivery of merch, mind your own biznez. The market knows how
to cull bad sellers; "star-systems" only catch dolphins, and allow most
ALL of the sharks to keep swimming.
Step TEN:
Try all of the above and then get back to me, if you still need help.
I will not expect to hear from you. >>
$4 for a stamp and plain envelope is not the same as $4 for a well-packed bubble mailer. As a buyer, I compare the price to the effort and rate accordingly. If it's clear that the shipping was materially marked up (e.g., $10 for a $5 flat rate box), I believe that it warrants a less than "very reasonable" rating. Even free shipping warrants a poor rating if the seller was careless and did not properly secure the item. As a seller, I generally use BINs and price accordingly.
Lastly, I agree with Jasen (leathtech) -- It doesn't take two minutes to properly package an item if you are halfway organized.
Scott
Always plenty of PSA-graded cards in my ebay store -- https://ebay.com/str/thelumbercompanysportscards
JBills makes a good point. Most people have been to high school, where a B is considered to be a good grade. A student with a B average will not get suspended from school.
The main problem is the wording associated with 4 stars: accurate, satisfied, quickly, reasonable. For eBay's system to work properly, they need to add "not" before each of these four words.
If PSA decided to adopt the eBay grading system, then a 1952 Mantle graded PSA 9 would be OK (but just barely), while a PSA 8 Mantle would be worthless.
<< <i>Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars. >>
You seem to be using ebay's false logic - that is, if you cannot get the product in the buyer's hand in 3-4 days, you are not acting properly as a seller. If you cannot conform to ebay's new definition of their ideal seller, you should be weeded off the site. And that, I believe, is their intention after reading the WSJ article. And when you leave less than 5 stars for a transaction (unless there were serious problems with it), then you are helping accomplish that transition.
It doesn't always takes me 6-7 days to ship, it depends on what else is going on at that time in my life. I am also at the whim of the PO. Living in WYO, everything here goes through Denver, which is not always speedy since I do not live within 5 hours of a big city. Some packages have taken almost two weeks even if mailed next day. Sometimes it's like living in Russia...
I'd even accept 3-4 category stars as a result of my situation. But my point is that if ebay considers this a failing grade then they need to take more steps to make buyers informed about the ratings. Some buyers might enjoy the items I sell, even if it does take a couple days longer for them to arrive. They might be willing to leave 5 stars anyway.
In the long run, I will not remember if an item took 3 or 6 days to get to me. But I will be sorry if small sellers are forced off the site.
This is especially true of the sports collectibles industry, where there are very few large conglomerates selling what we collect.
<< <i>
<< <i>Basically I know the right ways to act on ebay and I get very close to 5 stars from my buyers - so If a seller can not act like I act when I ship I will not leave a seller 5 stars. >>
You seem to be using ebay's false logic - that is, if you cannot get the product in the buyer's hand in 3-4 days, you are not acting properly as a seller. If you cannot conform to ebay's new definition of their ideal seller, you should be weeded off the site. And that, I believe, is their intention after reading the WSJ article. And when you leave less than 5 stars for a transaction (unless there were serious problems with it), then you are helping accomplish that transition.
It doesn't always takes me 6-7 days to ship, it depends on what else is going on at that time in my life. I am also at the whim of the PO. Living in WYO, everything here goes through Denver, which is not always speedy since I do not live within 5 hours of a big city. Some packages have taken almost two weeks even if mailed next day. Sometimes it's like living in Russia...
I'd even accept 3-4 category stars as a result of my situation. But my point is that if ebay considers this a failing grade then they need to take more steps to make buyers informed about the ratings. Some buyers might enjoy the items I sell, even if it does take a couple days longer for them to arrive. They might be willing to leave 5 stars anyway.
In the long run, I will not remember if an item took 3 or 6 days to get to me. But I will be sorry if small sellers are forced off the site.
This is especially true of the sports collectibles industry, where there are very few large conglomerates selling what we collect. >>
I never said I need the item in 3-4 days I just said if it takes you that long to get the item shipped then there is a problem... I fully understand the the buyer has no control over how long it takes the USPS takes to get something from A to B. What sellers do have control over is how long it takes to get the whole process started. If the seller is shipping something out 4 days after I have paid then I would consider dinging their stars.