PSA vs BGS post 2000
jswieton
Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭
I am sure this has been discussed before but for some reason I can’t find it while doing a search. My question is, why does BGS capture the majority of the market for cards post 2000? It seems like PSA 10’s sell for more $ then BGS 9.5’s, even for cards post 2000. However, if you look at both population reports it seems that BGS seems to be the method of choice for the majority of super modern collectors. I have always used PSA for both vintage and modern and have been pleased with how they grade both.
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Edited to add: I'm currently bidding on 59 Topps lots at Beckett Media on eBay.
I personally have only PSA graded cards, but I have considered sending 2 or 3 in to Beckett to attempt to catch lightening in a bottle. Then again, I have considered chasing a t-206 det too, and that ain't happening any time soon
Also, I would venture to suggest that a majority of the vintage collectors have little or no interest in modern material. Hence, they would have little interest in Beckett's vintage material. The primary reason Beckett vintage cards may not be considered for vintage collections is that there is significant doubt with regard to the accuracy and authenticity of vintage cards in Beckett holders.
The public, in general, is quite naive and if they read every month in Beckett Price Guide how great Beckett is and see images and realized prices in a publication that they consider the sportscard Bible, then it is reasonable to assume that these Beckett devotees will not only submit their modern cards to Beckett, but will prefer to buy and sell Beckett material.
If you're buying and selling primarily in material that is post 1990, my guess is that your choices are either PSA or BGS. SGC has very little leverage in that particular arena. Personally, I'll take a PSA or SGC card over a Beckett card any day of the week, especially when it comes to vintage. I'm pretty confident in stating that I've bought/sold less than 5 BGS cards in the past 7 years and I don't see that changing any time soon.
<< <i>A majority of people dealing in post-2000 material are collectors, weekend warriors and eBay sellers (this is not intended as a slight to any of these fine folks). Beckett has the attention of these people via their media outlet (monthly price guide) and no subscription or membership fees to have cards graded. They grade quickly and offer the "benefit" of the sub grades. This allows for the escalation and exploitation of price on identical graded items due to hyping the subgrades and suggesting a possible bump based upon the relevance of the sub grades. This is a benefit for the BGS seller versus relying solely on the image that a PSA seller has at their disposal.
Also, I would venture to suggest that a majority of the vintage collectors have little or no interest in modern material. Hence, they would have little interest in Beckett's vintage material. The primary reason Beckett vintage cards may not be considered for vintage collections is that there is significant doubt with regard to the accuracy and authenticity of vintage cards in Beckett holders.
The public, in general, is quite naive and if they read every month in Beckett Price Guide how great Beckett is and see images and realized prices in a publication that they consider the sportscard Bible, then it is reasonable to assume that these Beckett devotees will not only submit their modern cards to Beckett, but will prefer to buy and sell Beckett material.
If you're buying and selling primarily in material that is post 1990, my guess is that your choices are either PSA or BGS. SGC has very little leverage in that particular arena. Personally, I'll take a PSA or SGC card over a Beckett card any day of the week, especially when it comes to vintage. I'm pretty confident in stating that I've bought/sold less than 5 BGS cards in the past 7 years and I don't see that changing any time soon. >>
Scott can you name any vintage cards in Beckett holders that are not "authentic" or have any images?
<< <i>Scott can you name any vintage cards in Beckett holders that are not "authentic" or have any images? >>
Perhaps I can state this more exactly.
There is a significant issue with vintage cards being in Beckett holders that are UNALTERED or in their ORIGINAL state. Perhaps the "authentic" point was missed as I didn't feel the need to get specific. If this is a claim that you still want to challenge, the proof has been provided previously and there is more than ample evidence to support the statement as fact rather than just opinion.
Given the volume of BGS slabbed cards I have personally seen over the years and knowing the volume of material certain individuals submitted that came from sheets and from their "chopping blocks," I'll stand by my earlier statements.
There have been numerous examples and images posted to these boards and to the Beckett boards over the years. If you wish specific examples and/or images, you can hunt them down yourself.
<< <i>A majority of people dealing in post-2000 material are collectors, weekend warriors and eBay sellers (this is not intended as a slight to any of these fine folks). Beckett has the attention of these people via their media outlet (monthly price guide) and no subscription or membership fees to have cards graded. They grade quickly and offer the "benefit" of the sub grades. This allows for the escalation and exploitation of price on identical graded items due to hyping the subgrades and suggesting a possible bump based upon the relevance of the sub grades. This is a benefit for the BGS seller versus relying solely on the image that a PSA seller has at their disposal.
Also, I would venture to suggest that a majority of the vintage collectors have little or no interest in modern material. Hence, they would have little interest in Beckett's vintage material. The primary reason Beckett vintage cards may not be considered for vintage collections is that there is significant doubt with regard to the accuracy and authenticity of vintage cards in Beckett holders.
The public, in general, is quite naive and if they read every month in Beckett Price Guide how great Beckett is and see images and realized prices in a publication that they consider the sportscard Bible, then it is reasonable to assume that these Beckett devotees will not only submit their modern cards to Beckett, but will prefer to buy and sell Beckett material.
If you're buying and selling primarily in material that is post 1990, my guess is that your choices are either PSA or BGS. SGC has very little leverage in that particular arena. Personally, I'll take a PSA or SGC card over a Beckett card any day of the week, especially when it comes to vintage. I'm pretty confident in stating that I've bought/sold less than 5 BGS cards in the past 7 years and I don't see that changing any time soon. >>
Perfect post. I couldn't have stated it any better.
I originally asked you a simple question, you could of said yes or no but instead you come back defensive and claim I'm "challenging" what you said...
you never answered my second question either, "where do you get I'm challenging what you said"
I'm sure you'll answer back with something I never asked in the first place..
P.S. my original question was serious as I would of like some pics if possible for my archives why get so bent out of shape? seriously....
<< <i>Scott I'm not gonna argue with you, any bonehead knows BGS slabbed a bunch of sheet cuts do you want a medal or something?
I originally asked you a simple question, you could of said yes or no but instead you come back defensive and claim I'm "challenging" what you said...
you never answered my second question either, "where do you get I'm challenging what you said"
I'm sure you'll answer back with something I never asked in the first place..
P.S. my original question was serious as I would of like some pics if possible for my archives why get so bent out of shape? seriously.... >>
Perhaps I misread the "tone" of the post and perhaps I was a bit terse in my reply, but I've had more than my share of challenges and insults from folks anytime that I mention BGS's history and explain their lack of presence in the vintage market. Unfortunately, I do not have the inclination or desire to build a database of images. As I stated, there have been a myriad of images posted here and elsewhere in the past.
I do wish I could provide you with images from the 1957 Topps sheets I saw cut and submitted quite a few years ago that were graded pretty much straight BGS 8.0. The same guys also took down a 1986 Fleer basketball sheet and some 1970's and 1980's OPC hockey sheets. Mostly BGS 9.5's on all of those. And I was sickened when they showed me a small stack of BGS 9.5 ARod and Jeter SP's they had just received (I believe it was 3 ARods and 2 Jeters) that they said they trimmed from PSA and BGS 8 and 9 holders.
I was just interested in knowing about cards with questionable authenticity in holders.
Have yourself a great weekend and learn to relax a bit no sense in giving yourself a heart attack over cardboard..
I like all of the "big 3" for different reasons. The all have strong and weak points. They ALL have dirt that could be dished on here. I do realize this is a PSA board, and BGS gets bashed here as bad as PSA does on the pro SGC boards. I guess it's pointless to try and argue with people who are homers for a certain grading party whether it be on here, SGC's site, or Beckett's. I must say it's interesting that a bias for one company or the other can make people feel so much more "secure" with the grading party they decide to go with. That can leave people vulnerable when they close their mind to the real hobby wide problem and think it's not happening with their grader of choice. To each their own....
EDIT: add comments
<< <i>Yet, 1 of the biggest trimmers(self-admitted) has personally told me that he has been sending all of his stuff to one of the "big 3" grading companies(vintage and modern, but mostly vintage). I can tell you for a fact that he is NOT doing business with BGS. That leaves 2.... Of course almost no one here wants to believe any of that. I understand why, but it's just funny that many people on here want to believe it's only a BGS problem. Rest assured, there are many questionable actions in this hobby that may or may not involve vintage cards, big name people/auction houses, and big grading companies not named BGS.
EDIT: add comments >>
Well said...
But that kinda talk will earn the title of "troll" around these parts...