Any chance my Muhammad Ali Autograph is legit? UPDATED: Thanks PSA/DNA & Scott Single

ROCKDJRW · April 17, 2009 12:21PM

Several years ago I purchased this autograph on the condition if PSA/DNA thought it was good I would buy it. They did and so I purchased it. I never had a reason to doubt it as being authentic until I looked at Scashaggy's website aout Ali autographs. I noticed mine looks very close to the one listed in the reprint/forgeries/ autopen section Listed here. I am no expert and for all I know PSA got it right but it gave me reason to be concerned. Any opinions?

BunchOBull · April 17, 2009 12:27PM

Is the flip on that slab even legit? I'm not familiar with that flip. Sadly, it does look exactly like the auto-penned example on the site, just with a finer pen.

ROCKDJRW · April 17, 2009 12:30PM

The flip is legit. I subbed the card myself. I had the same feeling on the signature

storm888 · April 17, 2009 12:33PM

I think it is good.

BUT, PSA/DNA will be glad to take a new looksee,
if you are real worried about it.

scashaggy · April 17, 2009 12:36PM

It's an autopen.

ROCKDJRW · April 17, 2009 12:59PM

Thanks for the opinions! Do I have any options with PSA? BTW Scashaggy awesome site.

scashaggy · April 17, 2009 1:00PM

<< Thanks for the opinions! Do I have any options with PSA? BTW Scashaggy awesome site. >>

Thanks. This is not the first autopen I have seen authenticated by PSA, GAI. etc.

scashaggy · April 17, 2009 1:11PM

Here's another example.

storm888 · April 17, 2009 1:15PM

"...Do I have any options with PSA? .."

..............................

Sure.

Since you bought the card and submitted it yourself,
the warranty claim is likely limited to the authentication
fee.

If you had bought the card in the slab, you could likely
claim the price you paid under the warranty.

Obviously, somebody at PSA/DNA will need to look at
the card to give their current opinion.

/////////////

That is a GREAT Ali site!!!

scashaggy · April 17, 2009 1:16PM

Oh yea, if you click here and go to the article called 'Fake Ali's in big auction houses?' (about half way down the page), you will see other autopens authenticated.

scashaggy · April 17, 2009 1:19PM

ROCKDJRW, do you have a larger pic of that autopen you could send me?

ROCKDJRW · April 17, 2009 1:40PM

<< ROCKDJRW, do you have a larger pic of that autopen you could send me? >>

Sure pm sent.

70chip · April 17, 2009 1:57PM

That is an incredible site scashaggy, I really enjoying looking through it. WELL DONE!!!!!

schr1st · April 17, 2009 5:09PM

Sorry for the bad new Rock.

Very cool site, scashaggy! Have you had anyone approach you about the dual signed 1992 ProLine Ali cards?

Link to one currently on eBay

I don't remember him having signed any of the Ali cards "Clay", yet they seem to be showing up on eBay fairly often. I noticed on your site that you have a section detailing some of the questionable versions, but didn't see anything about these. Just as an FYI: the embossed stamp in the lower corner of the card is generally meaningless, as the embossing stamp was recreated and is used regularly for forgeries.

scashaggy · April 18, 2009 12:51AM

<< Sorry for the bad new Rock.

Very cool site, scashaggy! Have you had anyone approach you about the dual signed 1992 ProLine Ali cards?

Link to one currently on eBay

I don't remember him having signed any of the Ali cards "Clay", yet they seem to be showing up on eBay fairly often. I noticed on your site that you have a section detailing some of the questionable versions, but didn't see anything about these. Just as an FYI: the embossed stamp in the lower corner of the card is generally meaningless, as the embossing stamp was recreated and is used regularly for forgeries. >>

Thanks, I am currently working on an article on the fake Proline autos. About the stamp, if it was recreated, forgers would have to get their hands on unsigned auto versions of the card. Where would they get them from?

schr1st · April 18, 2009 1:15AM

There was another 1992 Pro Line Ali card created (BV is 2.00):

http://cgi.ebay.com/1992-PRO-LINE-FOOTBALL-PRODUCT-MUHAMMAD-ALI-CHAMPION_W0QQitemZ170322224387QQihZ007QQcategoryZ37795QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm presuming the backs are the same.

scashaggy · April 18, 2009 5:49AM

<< There was another 1992 Pro Line Ali card created (BV is 2.00):

http://cgi.ebay.com/1992-PRO-LINE-FOOTBALL-PRODUCT-MUHAMMAD-ALI-CHAMPION_W0QQitemZ170322224387QQihZ007QQcategoryZ37795QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm presuming the backs are the same. >>

The back of the base version and the signed ones are different.

Here are a few images from my site:

You will see that the unsigned card has the number in the lower right corner, the Signed one doesn't.

I still think some of them are fake, this one for example:

I lean towards Ali's people doing them or maybe even the Proline people?

NickM · April 18, 2009 7:35AM

scashaggy - perhaps the card itself is a fake too.

Nick

stevek · April 18, 2009 7:43AM

scary chit but not overwhelmingly surprising - fake autographs out there is the rule not the exception.

scashaggy · April 18, 2009 8:29AM

Anything's possible.

ROCKDJRW · August 21, 2009 2:11AM

I just wanted to give an update on this and give a personal thanks to Scott Single and PSA/DNA. I posted this on a Friday night and by Monday I already had a email and phone call from Scott. He told me not to worry that he would check it out and if an error was made he would make everything right. I waited until they were coming to the Fans Edge show (7-17) and emailed Scott and asked if it was ok if I brought it to him then. I brought the autograph to Scott and he couldn't have been nicer. Sadly the autograph was not good but I was offered (and accepted) PSA/DNA authentication in the full retail value of the signature. Scott even had couple of autographs looked at for me before I submited them to make sure they were ok! Every company makes mistakes. Great companies make them right! Over the years I have had issues with PSA( .5's, Rube ETC) but service like this is why I will keep coming back. Thanks Scott! BTW I am waiting for one autograph to come back and I will post scans of the auto's I had slabbed.

slantycouch · August 21, 2009 2:19AM

Glad to hear it was resolved. That's a quality business practice.

48leafpsa · September 3, 2009 5:22AM

here are the ali autos i have. from the 2000 Upper Deck Master Collection set:

[IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/cory71/scan0005.jpg">

vladguerrero · September 3, 2009 12:13PM

<< I just wanted to give an update on this and give a personal thanks to Scott Single and PSA/DNA. I posted this on a Friday night and by Monday I already had a email and phone call from Scott. He told me not to worry that he would check it out and if an error was made he would make everything right. I waited until they were coming to the Fans Edge show (7-17) and emailed Scott and asked if it was ok if I brought it to him then. I brought the autograph to Scott and he couldn't have been nicer. Sadly the autograph was not good but I was offered (and accepted) PSA/DNA authentication in the full retail value of the signature. Scott even had couple of autographs looked at for me before I submited them to make sure they were ok! Every company makes mistakes. Great companies make them right! Over the years I have had issues with PSA( .5's, Rube ETC) but service like this is why I will keep coming back. Thanks Scott! BTW I am waiting for one autograph to come back and I will post scans of the auto's I had slabbed. >>

Great to hear they took care of you like that, this was a pretty obvious case though, do you have a email address for Scott? I collected a autograph set and 5 of the cards psa/dna failed recently showed up in psa slabs of a large dealer, not a good feeling.

ROCKDJRW · September 3, 2009 12:18PM

Hope this helps.
Scott Single
Operations Manager
PSA/DNA
(949) 567-1160
ssingle@collectors.com

Any chance my Muhammad Ali Autograph is legit? UPDATED: Thanks PSA/DNA &amp; Scott Single

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Any chance my Muhammad Ali Autograph is legit? UPDATED: Thanks PSA/DNA & Scott Single