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Mike Wrenn (Last request)
mrmint23
Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
I sent Mike Wrenn this email prior to filing a small claims suit.
Mr. Wrenn,
I believe I have done all steps necessary in trying to obtain my money back. When I received the cards they were not worth anything since they had all been resealed. You agreed that if I sent them back you would refund my money. I sent the same by Insured US Postal Service and if the box had a small torn place on the box you then could have realized it probably didn't not harm the contents and if so you could've made a claim with the US Postal Service on the Insurance and received compensation. Now I am out not only the $205 I paid you for the cards I am also out the $25.64 for shipping because of your actions. I don't believe I have been unreasonable in asking for a refund for a product that you sold frauduently. You advertised these cards and also told me in several emails these card boxes/packs were NOT OPENED and new. I have collected baseball cards almost my entire life and enjoy doing so but do not appreciate people who sell items like these and don't have respect for those who collect things in unaltered condition.
My wife works for an attorney here in Tuscaloosa. If I do not receive a response to this email concerning my refund on the cards I will proceed with filing suit against you next week 2/17/2009. I have photos of all items before shipping them back, and I have emails and your advertisements of same. You as well as I know this is a fraud issue and you will not win. Luckily if I am forced to file suit against you I have been advised that at least the judgment I will be rendered will be collected by garnishment probably promptly since I am aware of your employer and their contact information.
If you could simply do the right thing in this situation and refund my money for an item that you sold that was NOT what you advertised this would save you alot of court costs and anguish over the next couple of months. I have tried all that I know to do but I am not willing to give someone $205 for something that is WORTHLESS.
I do hope to hear from you before taking this to a more drastic measure.
Mr. Wrenn,
I believe I have done all steps necessary in trying to obtain my money back. When I received the cards they were not worth anything since they had all been resealed. You agreed that if I sent them back you would refund my money. I sent the same by Insured US Postal Service and if the box had a small torn place on the box you then could have realized it probably didn't not harm the contents and if so you could've made a claim with the US Postal Service on the Insurance and received compensation. Now I am out not only the $205 I paid you for the cards I am also out the $25.64 for shipping because of your actions. I don't believe I have been unreasonable in asking for a refund for a product that you sold frauduently. You advertised these cards and also told me in several emails these card boxes/packs were NOT OPENED and new. I have collected baseball cards almost my entire life and enjoy doing so but do not appreciate people who sell items like these and don't have respect for those who collect things in unaltered condition.
My wife works for an attorney here in Tuscaloosa. If I do not receive a response to this email concerning my refund on the cards I will proceed with filing suit against you next week 2/17/2009. I have photos of all items before shipping them back, and I have emails and your advertisements of same. You as well as I know this is a fraud issue and you will not win. Luckily if I am forced to file suit against you I have been advised that at least the judgment I will be rendered will be collected by garnishment probably promptly since I am aware of your employer and their contact information.
If you could simply do the right thing in this situation and refund my money for an item that you sold that was NOT what you advertised this would save you alot of court costs and anguish over the next couple of months. I have tried all that I know to do but I am not willing to give someone $205 for something that is WORTHLESS.
I do hope to hear from you before taking this to a more drastic measure.
0
Comments
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
<< <i>Likely your wife knows...don't forget to add the court costs to the amount of the suit which the judge will allow - in your letter you should have mentioned court costs, legal fees, etc will be added to the suit, otherwise he has no monetary incentive to reply - he could just wait for the suit or hope you don't file it. I would send him another e-mail mentioning all this to give him a "push" to pay you now. >>
I'm not sure of the exact details because I've never done it, but you could also gather those names at net54 and possibly file a class action type lawsuit against him - that e-mail would shake him up a bit - you'd probably get YOUR money sent back in minutes after he read that...you "should" also mention that possibility as well in another letter also mentioning the court costs, etc.
<< <i>Also, he committed interstate commerce fraud and fraud is punishable by double the amount. >>
Couldn't hurt to mention that in the lawsuit, although to my knowledge a small claims court judge wouldn't allow that...I could be wrong about that, but again...it couldn't hurt to throw that on to the suit. Perhaps an attorney here could provide further guidance.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Another dishonest seller...hopefully he will get his in the end.. >>
And I'm "afraid" these bad economic times will make it worse, perhaps much worse - sometimes it'll turn "honest" sellers into dishonest sellers when they need money to pay their mortgage and feed their families. Always a good idea to proceed with caution on ebay, or anywhere...but especially now.
///////////////////////////////////
Keeping it real.................
I see NO slam-dunk here.
The demand letter is inartfully drafted, and unless the crook is a
low-end amateur it will not likely be effective.
Your strongest point is likely that the crook agreed to issue a refund
and then reneged after you spent additional money to comply with
his return instructions.
Since the crook is not in your state, be prepared to invest travel expenses
to the court closest to his addy.
(Alabama has a longarm statute that MAY be of some help, but it is complex
and FAR from impossible for a prospective individual-defendant to defeat.)
Long-Arm Of Alabama
If you file in the crook's hometown, you have the best chance of a win/collection,
but you will have to travel there.
These folks are good at drafting complaints and serving out-of-state folks in small claims:
civil tree
Their prices for most services are "reasonable." (I have no finanical connection to them.)
Interstate small-claims actions are usually a not-worth-it-nightmare.
............
If you file a suit, be prepared to offer "proof" that the items were not
as advertised. You will need an expert to support your position. Some
judges will accept affidavits from such witnesses, some insist on oral
testimony.
Other folks' online complaints/comments about the crook's past actions
will likely be considered hearsay nonsense by the judge. They will not
be admitted.
The cost to bring and maintain an out of state SC action will quickly
exceed $1,000.
If you get a judgement, you may or may NOT be able to collect on it
without professional help; more potential expenses.
///////////////////////////////
This is NOT advice.
If I was screwed by the crook, I would register a godaddy account
and spam the internet, LE agencies, and all media outles with my story.
The web needs a good site where victims of pack-resealers and
card-pirates can get the word out.
Such a site is likely a better investment than a small-claims action
against the out of state crook.
............
Mostly because this will be a case of your word against his. He may have offered a refund, but did he ever admit they were resealed? How would the judge know you didn't rip them open and maybe reseal them yourself? Scammers for the most part are lyers and cheats. The courtroom won't change that.
Sorry to be so negative, I'm definetly rooting for you mrmint guy.
With that said I dislike sellers that do not accept returns.
If any of my customers are unhappy with an item I always refund.
This case is a lil sticky because it involves wax packs.
if it was me I'd have told the buyer to return them and if after I inspect them if they
are how I shipped them I'd refund.
Generally I don't offer a return in my listings if I did it would encourage
people to use me as an approval service. However every time a customer
has asked for a refund/return I have done it.
It really is a no brainer as it develops good will and they seem to buy again from me.
Or at least want to buy again from me.
Mr Wrenn is nothing more then a sleazy slimey scummy person out to get over on folks.
His offering to accept the return then not accept it is my reason for thinking the way I do.
Had he refused from the get go I'd have more respect for him.
Trimmed cards and opened wax seem to be his MO.
Steve
<< <i>He may have offered a refund, but did he ever admit they were resealed? How would the judge know you didn't rip them open and maybe reseal them yourself? Scammers for the most part are lyers and cheats. The courtroom won't change that.
Sorry to be so negative, I'm definetly rooting for you mrmint guy. >>
////////////////////////////
I'm rooting for him, too.
But, when you get involved with a drunk/drugged, man/woman-hater, arbitrary, affirmative-action
placed, reprobate, ignorant, insane crow of a judge.......you just NEVER know what is going to happen in court.
I am not against small-claims actions, but going after individuals that are out of state
is always a challenge. An out of state company with a CLEAR local presence is MUCH
easier.
A rational judge could see the return instructions as a "new contract," if the complaint was
drafted correctly, and might never have to consider whether the items were as advertised.
................................
Fun EBAY revenge.......
Listing Title:
Resealed Packs 1987 TOPPS Purchased On EBAY
In the description you can identify the source of the packs,
and if you keep it very mild the listing is likely to survive.
If you use the crook's EBAY ID, such a listing is powerfull
medicine.
Once you find the lingo that will survive the EBAY TOS, you
could run such listings EVERY WEEK until justice was done.
..................
<< <i>"...You as well as I know this is a fraud issue and you will not win...."
///////////////////////////////////
Keeping it real.................
I see NO slam-dunk here.
The demand letter is inartfully drafted, and unless the crook is a
low-end amateur it will not likely be effective.
Your strongest point is likely that the crook agreed to issue a refund
and then reneged after you spent additional money to comply with
his return instructions.
Since the crook is not in your state, be prepared to invest travel expenses
to the court closest to his addy.
(Alabama has a longarm statute that MAY be of some help, but it is complex
and FAR from impossible for a prospective individual-defendant to defeat.)
Long-Arm Of Alabama
If you file in the crook's hometown, you have the best chance of a win/collection,
but you will have to travel there.
These folks are good at drafting complaints and serving out-of-state folks in small claims:
civil tree
Their prices for most services are "reasonable." (I have no finanical connection to them.)
Interstate small-claims actions are usually a not-worth-it-nightmare.
............
If you file a suit, be prepared to offer "proof" that the items were not
as advertised. You will need an expert to support your position. Some
judges will accept affidavits from such witnesses, some insist on oral
testimony.
Other folks' online complaints/comments about the crook's past actions
will likely be considered hearsay nonsense by the judge. They will not
be admitted.
The cost to bring and maintain an out of state SC action will quickly
exceed $1,000.
If you get a judgement, you may or may NOT be able to collect on it
without professional help; more potential expenses.
///////////////////////////////
This is NOT advice.
If I was screwed by the crook, I would register a godaddy account
and spam the internet, LE agencies, and all media outles with my story.
The web needs a good site where victims of pack-resealers and
card-pirates can get the word out.
Such a site is likely a better investment than a small-claims action
against the out of state crook.
............ >>
Storm, who I believe is the finest poster on here, and is always spot on and I have learned a ton of great information from him over the years, with some points here is incorrect and unintentionally misleading regarding small claims court procedures and realities. I have filed dozens of small claim court cases in a number of states over the years.
In a nutshell:
1. I've never known a small claims court yet, that didn't allow filing by mail - you can call them and they are always quite helpful and will always mail you the necessary documents at no cost, and you can mail the paperwork back along with a check for the court costs - follow the instructions to a tee. And yes, the documents need to be filed in the jurisdiction of the defendant.
2. The second big thing is I have never filed a case yet that was contested - the defendant "knows" they are guilty so I guess they figure why waste their time defending a sure thing loser for them.
3. The problem isn't winning the case - that's the easy part - the problem can be collecting the money. If it comes to that...TTT this thread and I'll offer my experiences about that.
Good luck!
1. I've never known a small claims court yet, that didn't allow filing by mail - you can call them and they are always quite helpful and will always mail you the necessary documents at no cost, and you can mail the paperwork back along with a check for the court costs - follow the instructions to a tee. And yes, the documents need to be filed in the jurisdiction of the defendant."
Virtually all states allow service by mail in SC. Some require a motion
that requests such service be made prior to the same being valid.
Any experienced defendant knows how to play games on the issue
of personal service. Such games can be a major pitfall for even very
experienced plaintiffs.
Service is really not much of an issue in this instance. Jurisdiction may
be the problem for the plaintiff. AL is far away from NY, and I don't have
much confidence in AL's long-arm statute being liberally construed in favor
of the plaintiff. That does NOT mean it could not happen, ONLY that it could
be VERY tough. Especially if I was the target defendant.
2. The second big thing is I have never filed a case yet that was contested - the defendant "knows" they are guilty so I guess they figure why waste their time defending a sure thing loser for them.
I have been far less "lucky." I say "lucky" in quotes because default
judgements have come back to bite me as a plaintiff on MANY occassions.
A default judgement seems easy, but years later there can be added aggravation.
As time passes, after a judgement lien is placed on a Defendant's property, he
may rehab himself financially and hire a lawyer to fight the lien. The FIRST words
out of the lawyer's mouth have to do with the issue of "default." A skilled lawyer
can cost a plaintiff a tiny fortune in efforts to set aside a default.
In an effort to cost out of town plaintiff's money, it is pretty common for an
experienced defendant to fail to show up until very late on the day of trial in SC.
The judge routinely enters a default judgement, and the plaintiff heads back
home; maybe hundreds of miles away. Four hours later, the defendant shows
up and begs the judge for a hearing to set aside the default. Most SC judges
HATE defaults and routinely grant such motions; even if they are made DAYS
later. The plaintiff and his "default judgement" must come back to the foreign
jurisdiction and respond to the motion weeks later.
(I have won and lost about an equal amount of such motions on both sides
of the courtroom. Excusable Neglect is a powerfull chip, and different judges
have different views on the issue.)
If the default is set aside - as ANY skilled liar/defendant can effect - the judge will
set a NEW trial date that is weeks away. The plaintiff then has to drive home,
wait six-weeks, and decide if it is worthwhile to travel AGAIN to try the case.
Almost NONE of the money spent by plaintiffs chasing their remedy is ever
recovered in such circumstances.
None of the above is a MAJOR headache, if the defendant is local. The problem
here is that the crook lives in NY, and the plaintiff is in AL.
3. The problem isn't winning the case - that's the easy part - the problem can be collecting the money. If it comes to that...TTT this thread and I'll offer my experiences about that.
That is the hard part - and the main reason that MANY small-claims actions
are not really worth maintaining.
If the defendant is a peasant and stays that way for the life of the renewed
judgement, the plaintiff may find nothing to lien.
If the defendant is a pro and has stuff that can be liened, he will know every
way to defeat collection on the lien. Eventually, most plaintiff's will settle for
less than the entered judgement.
THERE ARE CERTAINLY success stories on getting paid. But, there is usually
a lot of extra work involved in collecting.
AGAIN, I don't want to disourage folks about the merits of SC, but I don't
want to mislead them into thinking that a win in SC is the same as "getting paid."
///////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////
I am ALL about revenge and justice. But, sometimes SC is just not the best
remedy.
<< <i>"In a nutshell:
1. I've never known a small claims court yet, that didn't allow filing by mail - you can call them and they are always quite helpful and will always mail you the necessary documents at no cost, and you can mail the paperwork back along with a check for the court costs - follow the instructions to a tee. And yes, the documents need to be filed in the jurisdiction of the defendant."
Virtually all states allow service by mail in SC. Some require a motion
that requests such service be made prior to the same being valid.
Any experienced defendant knows how to play games on the issue
of personal service. Such games can be a major pitfall for even very
experienced plaintiffs.
Service is really not much of an issue in this instance. Jurisdiction may
be the problem for the plaintiff. AL is far away from NY, and I don't have
much confidence in AL's long-arm statute being liberally construed in favor
of the plaintiff. That does NOT mean it could not happen, ONLY that it could
be VERY tough. Especially if I was the target defendant.
2. The second big thing is I have never filed a case yet that was contested - the defendant "knows" they are guilty so I guess they figure why waste their time defending a sure thing loser for them.
I have been far less "lucky." I say "lucky" in quotes because default
judgements have come back to bite me as a plaintiff on MANY occassions.
A default judgement seems easy, but years later there can be added aggravation.
As time passes, after a judgement lien is placed on a Defendant's property, he
may rehab himself financially and hire a lawyer to fight the lien. The FIRST words
out of the lawyer's mouth have to do with the issue of "default." A skilled lawyer
can cost a plaintiff a tiny fortune in efforts to set aside a default.
In an effort to cost out of town plaintiff's money, it is pretty common for an
experienced defendant to fail to show up until very late on the day of trial in SC.
The judge routinely enters a default judgement, and the plaintiff heads back
home; maybe hundreds of miles away. Four hours later, the defendant shows
up and begs the judge for a hearing to set aside the default. Most SC judges
HATE defaults and routinely grant such motions; even if they are made DAYS
later. The plaintiff and his "default judgement" must come back to the foreign
jurisdiction and respond to the motion weeks later.
(I have won and lost about an equal amount of such motions on both sides
of the courtroom. Excusable Neglect is a powerfull chip, and different judges
have different views on the issue.)
If the default is set aside - as ANY skilled liar/defendant can effect - the judge will
set a NEW trial date that is weeks away. The plaintiff then has to drive home,
wait six-weeks, and decide if it is worthwhile to travel AGAIN to try the case.
Almost NONE of the money spent by plaintiffs chasing their remedy is ever
recovered in such circumstances.
None of the above is a MAJOR headache, if the defendant is local. The problem
here is that the crook lives in NY, and the plaintiff is in AL.
3. The problem isn't winning the case - that's the easy part - the problem can be collecting the money. If it comes to that...TTT this thread and I'll offer my experiences about that.
That is the hard part - and the main reason that MANY small-claims actions
are not really worth maintaining.
If the defendant is a peasant and stays that way for the life of the renewed
judgement, the plaintiff may find nothing to lien.
If the defendant is a pro and has stuff that can be liened, he will know every
way to defeat collection on the lien. Eventually, most plaintiff's will settle for
less than the entered judgement.
THERE ARE CERTAINLY success stories on getting paid. But, there is usually
a lot of extra work involved in collecting.
AGAIN, I don't want to disourage folks about the merits of SC, but I don't
want to mislead them into thinking that a win in SC is the same as "getting paid."
///////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////
I am ALL about revenge and justice. But, sometimes SC is just not the best
remedy. >>
Storm - I initially misjudged your knowledge on this matter, and as usual you share helpful information for the benefit of members on this forum - CU oughta pay you a salary, and I'm almost not kidding.
And I fully understand your new points here, having gone through a number of experiences. To elaborate a bit about my "record" of winning SC cases...I filed cases whereby I knew I would both win and there was an excellent chance the defendant would pay. IE: to spend time and money, say $50 or more to file and go after somebody for $200 who lives in an apartment complex who could easily and quickly vamoose, and of course as you know the writ of execution is another around $150 in plaintiff fees which the court adds to the judgement, but to throw good money after likely bad money is bad business...then a $200 loss turns into a $400 loss.
I could go on and on regarding this but I'll leave it at that for now, and hopefully the "letter", perhaps redone adding the points you and I mentioned to induce the scammer to pay the OP, will dispense the need for further action.
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
<< <i>Is this the dude who did like a group rip, bought the packs himself then opened them, pulled out the good cards, then resealed everything and mailed them to the rip people? >>
I think that was Gary
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set