How much does this salutation trace over effect the value of this Ty Cobb single signed ball?
thenavarro
Posts: 7,497 ✭✭✭
This ball has spiked my interest. However, it has a big league flaw. It's a signed Ty Cobb ball described as the following:
"Ty Cobb is remembered as much for his intimidating demeanor as his legendary batting accomplishments. In 1936, despite an enduring reputation as the meanest player in the game, Cobb became the leading vote-getter among the first group to be elected into the brand new Hall of Fame, beating even Ruth and Wagner. As much as Cobb enjoyed his reputation for being hard nosed, he remained an accommodating autograph signer. This OAL (Harridge) ball bears a superb example of his signature on a side panel in jet black ink (10/10) along with his date notation "5/9/53". The salutation, "Best Wishes" preceding Cobb's signature appears to have initially been written in green ink, and then written over in the same black pen by Cobb, as determined by third party authenticators who've inspected it. The ball's stampings have faded substantially. A heavy coat of shellac protects the surface. Apart from a minor blemish on the seam above the inscription and another affecting the "B" in "Best", the ball's creamy toned surface is fairly clean. LOAs from PSA/DNA and JSA."
My questions are as follows:
What is the probability that only the salutation was traced over and not the whole signature? (I realize from the scan that you can tell that there's not green under the sig, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is what's the probability that the black writing was done at the initial time of signing, and was not years later by someone else AFTER the green had faded away?)
What would be a reasonable price to pay for the ball considering the flaw?
What percentage of value would you expect this ball to maintain compared to a non-flawed example?
Sorry for the large picture, but it's the best way to show the flaw.
thanks,
Mike
"Ty Cobb is remembered as much for his intimidating demeanor as his legendary batting accomplishments. In 1936, despite an enduring reputation as the meanest player in the game, Cobb became the leading vote-getter among the first group to be elected into the brand new Hall of Fame, beating even Ruth and Wagner. As much as Cobb enjoyed his reputation for being hard nosed, he remained an accommodating autograph signer. This OAL (Harridge) ball bears a superb example of his signature on a side panel in jet black ink (10/10) along with his date notation "5/9/53". The salutation, "Best Wishes" preceding Cobb's signature appears to have initially been written in green ink, and then written over in the same black pen by Cobb, as determined by third party authenticators who've inspected it. The ball's stampings have faded substantially. A heavy coat of shellac protects the surface. Apart from a minor blemish on the seam above the inscription and another affecting the "B" in "Best", the ball's creamy toned surface is fairly clean. LOAs from PSA/DNA and JSA."
My questions are as follows:
What is the probability that only the salutation was traced over and not the whole signature? (I realize from the scan that you can tell that there's not green under the sig, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is what's the probability that the black writing was done at the initial time of signing, and was not years later by someone else AFTER the green had faded away?)
What would be a reasonable price to pay for the ball considering the flaw?
What percentage of value would you expect this ball to maintain compared to a non-flawed example?
Sorry for the large picture, but it's the best way to show the flaw.
thanks,
Mike
Buying US Presidential autographs
0
Comments
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
To me, the likely scenario is that Cobb (who was famous for preferring to sign with green ink) started to sign in green but ran out before he finished the word "wishes", so he proceeded to finish in black ink.
I would bet that the tracing was done by Cobb himself at the time of the original signing. It doesn't look like "Ty Cobb" is hiding any green, so I'd say nothing else was traced.
As far as value goes, $6,500-$9,000+ would be reasonable, especially being backed by Spence & PSA/DNA. Had this ball been a game-used one, it might reach the $15,000-$20,000 range. (I doubt it was game-used since it's on a Harridge ball ... Cobb retired in '28 and Harridge was AL Pres from '31-'58.)
What a great piece of history! The ball is breath-taking in the least. Thanks for sharing
JMHO,
PoppaJ
<< <i>Mike, I dont think it will affect it in the least. Thats a nice clear signature on that ball. Whats the story on this ball? Are you buying? >>
thanks for the opinions so far. It's in an upcoming David Kohler auction. Just trying to get a guage on market value so I know whether to set aside some funds or whether it will be too much from the beginning and would just waste my time to pursue.
Mike
<< <i>dont touch that ball without disposable gloves..that looks like the dangerous black mold on the lacing....nasty! >>
I just wonder if it is above or below the laquer.
Not as much (value loss) as you might think.
As many autograph collectors know most vintage Cobb sigs from the mid 20th Century are in Green ink. This one looks like the pen Cobb started with (green) crapped out, so he switched pens.
All the ink is in Ty's hand IMO.
Steve
<< <i>Hi Mike,
To me, the likely scenario is that Cobb (who was famous for preferring to sign with green ink) started to sign in green but ran out before he finished the word "wishes", so he proceeded to finish in black ink.
I would bet that the tracing was done by Cobb himself at the time of the original signing. It doesn't look like "Ty Cobb" is hiding any green, so I'd say nothing else was traced.
As far as value goes, $6,500-$9,000+ would be reasonable, especially being backed by Spence & PSA/DNA. Had this ball been a game-used one, it might reach the $15,000-$20,000 range. (I doubt it was game-used since it's on a Harridge ball ... Cobb retired in '28 and Harridge was AL Pres from '31-'58.)
What a great piece of history! The ball is breath-taking in the least. Thanks for sharing
JMHO,
PoppaJ >>