There's a sucker born every minute but....
clayshooter22
Posts: 727 ✭✭✭
PT Barnum would be proud....
I've followed a few Puckett singles I need for my registry set, maybe 30 cards in total.
The cards are not selling. Prices have been from $15-$50 for common modern with pops between 3-35. I've paid no more than $10 for a modern PSA 10 and I'm not buying these at these prices so I just put them on my watchlist. Over the last week every item, not most items, every item has gone unsold and relisted $5-$10 higher? WTH?
Is this happening to anybody else? In today's economy and with Christmas this week...why would a seller RAISE prices?
I contacted 3 sellers and offered $10/ea for 10-20 count lots and the responses, when I get them, seem to be that people want to hold on to this stuff unless they get $20....which is not happening. I guess they like paying listing fees.
Weird.
Mike
I've followed a few Puckett singles I need for my registry set, maybe 30 cards in total.
The cards are not selling. Prices have been from $15-$50 for common modern with pops between 3-35. I've paid no more than $10 for a modern PSA 10 and I'm not buying these at these prices so I just put them on my watchlist. Over the last week every item, not most items, every item has gone unsold and relisted $5-$10 higher? WTH?
Is this happening to anybody else? In today's economy and with Christmas this week...why would a seller RAISE prices?
I contacted 3 sellers and offered $10/ea for 10-20 count lots and the responses, when I get them, seem to be that people want to hold on to this stuff unless they get $20....which is not happening. I guess they like paying listing fees.
Weird.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
0
Comments
I get that there is not a lot of markup in it.....unless you are 4SC or PSA-SET-GUY and they get substantial discounts for subbing. I'm not asking anyone to sub a card for free. Philosophically, I agree. Kinda moot as the cards are already subbed and they have not sold in weeks. At this point what is the up side to paying more listing fees?
I ended my store and stopped selling about August when I spent my free time shooting (I'm on Team USA and we had a match in Cyprus in September). Maybe sellers get free listing fees or something? I don't get it so I thought I'd see if there is some strategy that sellers are using since it seems everyone is marking things up and having "sales" now; ie. JustCollect.
Here's the catch; 4SC subs and lists all the cards I want. They start em at $20 and after three weeks of not selling I can buy them for $10 or wait another week and buy $6-8. These are the same cards. Some of the sellers are board members here. I'm all for making a buck but if it doesn't matter what it costs if you ultimately can't sell it....you still end up with a negative number at this point. Even if you sell it down the road...you've paid all those listing fees along the way? Right? Am I missing something?
btw, These are mostly pop 6-10 and there are only two people actively buying them, of which I am one. When Erik (porkchopper) already has it...I'm the only market.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
In recent weeks we've seen allprosports apparently go belly-up, simsclassicsports has also, it seems, gone belly up, and many high-volume modern sellers have seen fewer than 5% of their PSA 10 listings sell for more than $15 in the past month. If this trend continues there won't be any more dealers around to help guys finish their sets, because you cannot consistently sell PSA 10's for $10 a piece and ever hope to turn a profit. This was the point I was trying to make (and I should have been more clear about that)-- your point about sellers refusing to acknowledge that a grading fees represent a sunk cost are well taken.
PS, Thanks for the PSA 10 Skybox Molten Metal card last night Boopotts, I have been looking for that one for quite a while.
IT makes no sense to keep running auctions but i completely understand why an unsold item at 9.99 would be put for $15 in an ebay store. I do that all the time. Sometimes unsold 9.99 items will sell for $40 at a later date when the right person sees it.
Puckett does not sell anymore. Pop1s get $15-$30 on a lucky day and even low pop basics only get $15. But that is just my experience i am sure you would know better and i am sure many go unsold at 9.99 too.
I look at this way, i would rather put a puckett psa 10 in my store for $15 then sell it for $6. The market might not be there today but tomorrow someone might come along and start a puckett set. Lots of players go in cycles from extremely hot to frigid cold.
Look at yount, hrbek, jeter, clark, murphy, brett and griffey. One day psa 10s are $100, next day they are $10 and vice versa.
I sold a psa 9 87 opc hrbek for $79 now i get $15 for psa 10 pop 1's.
I sold pop1 griffeys for $20 all day last year now they get $60-$100
You know the Puckett market well. You are also a schrewd businessman.
Anything else I can say to butter you up and pry a couple of those pucketts from you?
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>He's not budging, and you obviously want it. If it were me, I'd pay the tiny amount extra he's asking since I am not willing (or too busy in this case) to do all the work that went into that PSA 10 myself (ie. - locating the product, paying for the product, pre-grading it myself to see if it is worthy of subbing, and then subbing it to TPG). That's where it would end for a self submitter, but a seller also has to list it on auction site, answer PITA emails from buyers low-balling him, and then ship to the buyer. Trust me, it's not as easy as most buyers think. >>
Nam,
It's not that he's not budging...he's jacking the price after it doesn't sell? If you can explain that one.....please do. And I'm not talking auction - store listing. I'm talking auction to auction.
Also, it's not a "tiny" amount. The difference between the listing price and $10 common high/pop is aboout $600 for all the cards I want. That's the difference between the two. For $600 I'll wait for 4sc to list it or send it myself. I'll sub cards at $5 each and get 1/2 to 1/3 PSA 10's without fail, so I'll have about $12 into each of them which is about the same as $10+shipping. I need 300 cards so even $2 savings is worth waiting or sending in myself. I do send in 400-500 cards a year on the $5 specials-sell on ebay, both auction and store-and deal with customers/eBay. So I know the drill.
At the end of the day, when it doesn't sell for $15; why not bulk sale it to a guy that will Paypal you $200 for 20 cards. Much easier than 20 individual sales....I think that even makes it more complelling to sell to me.
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>......I'll sub cards at $5 each and get 1/2 to 1/3 PSA 10's without fail, so I'll have about $12 into each of them...... >>
That's if you hit 50% PSA 10's.
At only 33% PSA 10's you are over $17 per card (im basing that on 40 cards subbed) and that's not accounting for what it costs to acquire the raw cards in the first place (which admittedly isnt that much).
It's not that he's not budging...he's jacking the price after it doesn't sell? If you can explain that one.....please do. And I'm not talking auction - store listing. I'm talking auction to auction.
Clay he is trying to get back the fees he has in already. Just because a card does not sell the first time does not mean it won't sell the second or third time around.
Also maybe he is banking on some Christmas money?
I have done exactly what you are saying this guy is doing. I have raised the price of an item by 5.00 after it didn't sell. You would be
surprised how often an item sells the second time thru.
Steve
Maybe I'm too patient and the guys buying are impulse buying and so price +/- $5 isn't a concern. I have 300+ of these to buy/sub so $5-$10 extra each adds up. I've bought or sub'd 500+ in 2008 so it's not like I'm going to pay $5-$15 extra per card. If I needed only a handful, sure, but I'm trying to buy 20 card lots+ at a time so am I wrong for trying to deal?
Nam, You're spot on with the 33% and $17. I find I'm at about 50% on modern bulk and 33% on inserts mostly because I try to stretch 9's into tens. Must be the optimist in me. I think it easier and cheaper to sub cards but I find I'm willing to pay about 2Xgrading fees to buy a PSA 10 and the bonus is I get the instant gratification.
Miller,
"Frankly, to me its worth the extra money so guys like Roger, Boopotts, 4SC and PSA-Set-Guy can be around in business and help me complete the sets that I am working on." You are talking about way different business models. If 4SC grades my card and I wait 4 weeks I buy it at $6. There is no martket for the card at $20-$15-$10 or even at $6. If I offer Roger $10 each then aren't I doing him a favor by buying from him? at an above market price? He doesn't have to sell. I would think it wise to consider making a couple bucks per card than pay listing fees for months but maybe they get $20-$25 per common from someone after it sits in their store for months/years. I've never held a card that long I wanted to sell.
I'm not complaining so much as trying to understand what the intent is when a seller RAISES the price on a listing that doesn't sell. If the market won't support $15, why try again at $20?
Win, I'm sure it happens but I would bet that more listing fees are spent than profit gained...by a mile. If I'm wrong, so be it. I'd never know. When my cards don't sell at auction I've always dropped the minimum enough to make sure it sells.
I honestly thought I was helping these guys by offering $10 when I know for certain that if I wait I can buy the same card from 4SC at $6 at some point in the next year. When you need 300+ you have to be somewhat selective.
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>........I would bet that more listing fees are spent than profit gained.......... >>
I'm not saying you're completely wrong, but at 5 cents a month it only costs him 60 cents a year to keep that card in his eBay store at $50 fixed price. I dont know eBay's exact traffic numbers, but im sure there are thousands of new eyes (as well as the millions of existing eyes) every day searching eBay. All he needs is one pair of those eyes to see it and say "Wow, a Gem Mint PSA 10 of a Hall of famer like Kirby Puckett can be mine for only $50?.....What a great deal.....click victoriously"
My Registry Sets
Not saying that won't happen, but it hasn't been happening as I've been watching the cards for a month to gauge traffic. No sales, not one for anything other than PSA 10 Topps, Donruss, and PSA 9 Fleer Updates.
I know Roger trades these a bit. I'd be interested to hear from him how successful his items are when they sit at about the same price. Roger, do they "eventually" sell for what you want or is it more typicall that they only sell when reduced?
I know the market has softened lately but I bet you have some good info as far as historical sales.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>Nick,
Not saying that won't happen, but it hasn't been happening as I've been watching the cards for a month to gauge traffic. No sales, not one for anything other than PSA 10 Topps, Donruss, and PSA 9 Fleer Updates.
I know Roger trades these a bit. I'd be interested to hear from him how successful his items are when they sit at about the same price. Roger, do they "eventually" sell for what you want or is it more typicall that they only sell when reduced?
I know the market has softened lately but I bet you have some good info as far as historical sales.
Mike >>
You would be shocked at what sells in an ebay store over the course of a year.
Puckett was selling well when i first started but now he is dead for the most part.
I let a run of puckett psa 10s start at .99 a few months back just to gauge what the natural market is since none were selling for me and most ended up in the $8-$20 range. There is a big difference for me if i can avg $15 per card and $10 a card. If i am getting $10-$12 on pop1s i will not submit that player anymore. The only time I really do $10 per card is for company set collectors that i know are buying 60 and 70 cards at a clip. Plus some products are really tough and i might spend $40 on 5 small oddball sets that yield 2 10s total and 1 is schmidt and 1 is puckett so i am into them for almost $26ea approx not including my time.
I totally agree that pop 1's are what you and other bulk submitters should be after. I still think there is a good market as Erik pays top dollar for those. I guess I was trying to seperate low pop 1-2 from higer pop 6+ cards when discussing the auction prices I was seeing. There is all the reason in the world to hang a pop 1 in a store at $20-100. As long as it is the only pop 1 I would think <$20 is cheating yourself.
I just don't get the reason to hang a pop 6 card in a store for a year, even at .30, when the money could be turned over a few more times in hope of getting more player collector cards subbed. Maybe I put too much into it as I have about 2000 raw Pucketts that need to be submitted and if someone really doesn't have the raw or doesn't need the cash flow then no reason to turn it over.
I used to deal back in the 80's and early 90's and turnover was the key. Let the market set the price and turn everything over. The money was made in buying right and the comparison for this issue would be submitting right.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
In those cases, do you not sell the remaining sets?
<< <i>Roger,
I totally agree that pop 1's are what you and other bulk submitters should be after. I still think there is a good market as Erik pays top dollar for those. I guess I was trying to seperate low pop 1-2 from higer pop 6+ cards when discussing the auction prices I was seeing. There is all the reason in the world to hang a pop 1 in a store at $20-100. As long as it is the only pop 1 I would think <$20 is cheating yourself.
I just don't get the reason to hang a pop 6 card in a store for a year, even at .30, when the money could be turned over a few more times in hope of getting more player collector cards subbed. Maybe I put too much into it as I have about 2000 raw Pucketts that need to be submitted and if someone really doesn't have the raw or doesn't need the cash flow then no reason to turn it over.
I used to deal back in the 80's and early 90's and turnover was the key. Let the market set the price and turn everything over. The money was made in buying right and the comparison for this issue would be submitting right.
Mike >>
I am not working on fixed dollars where if i sell that puckett psa 10 for $6 I can then use that $6 to generate more income. My sales have no effect on my purchases since this is a hobby for me and really does not effect my life financially. If there is an item or collection or box or case i think i can make money on, i buy it. I look at it this way. If i think it will eventually sell or have potential to sell one day i will just park it.If its something i know nobody else in the world wants, i will give it away for free. Puckett is not on the free list yet but he is getting there..
And to answer the other question, i dont resell the raw stuff from my breaks although i should. I try to move some stuff but it is too time consuming. I have every card not 10 worthy sitting in 5000ct boxes from my breaks including tons of tough inserts, hof rc's etc. I guess one day i can put up some raw 20ct marino and elway rookie lots and arod lots and 5000ct ken griffey jr lots that will probably sell for decent money.
<< <i>Puckett was selling well when i first started but now he is dead for the most part. >>
lol, sorry, I about lost it when I read that. Puckett isn't dead for the most part, he's dead for the all-the-way part! Anyway, it's sad, but it made me giggle. Probably only funny to me, but it hit me from a funny angle.
By the way, if you have a 5000ct box full of not-10-worthy Ripkens laying around, I'll PM you my address!
<< <i>
<< <i>Puckett was selling well when i first started but now he is dead for the most part. >>
lol, sorry, I about lost it when I read that. Puckett isn't dead for the most part, he's dead for the all-the-way part! Anyway, it's sad, but it made me giggle. Probably only funny to me, but it hit me from a funny angle.
By the way, if you have a 5000ct box full of not-10-worthy Ripkens laying around, I'll PM you my address!
I completely forgot that puckett is dead... Probably should have used better wording...
I am sure i can fill a 5000ct box of ripken but they are not sorted so anytime you want to come over and look through 1 million unsorted cards, let me know. I pretty much broke every single wax box and boxed oddball set from the 80s and 90s so i probably have a ripken master set almost complete laying around somewhere.