I was not happy with this sub- with scans

Mickey71 · December 21, 2008 9:08AM

There were cards graded a 7 that are clearly NM-MT. The Santo is also NM-MT. The 63 football are beautiful. Not an 8 in the whole sub. You be the judge.

Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country
1 1 15571890 NEAR MINT 7 1963 TOPPS 2 LENNY MOORE Card US
2 1 15571891 NEAR MINT 7 1963 TOPPS 96 RAY NITSCHKE Card US
3 1 15571892 NEAR MINT 7 1963 TOPPS 91 JIM RINGO Card US
4 1 15571893 NEAR MINT 7 1962 TOPPS 167 SAM HORNER Card US
5 1 15571894 NEAR MINT 7 1958 TOPPS 212 BUBBA PHILLIPS Card US
6 1 15571895 NEAR MINT+ 7.5 1964 TOPPS 375 RON SANTO Card US
7 1 15571896 NEAR MINT 7 1969 TOPPS 100 HANK AARON Card US
8 1 15571897 NEAR MINT 7 1962 TOPPS 140 GEHRIG AND RUTH Card US
9 1 15571898 NEAR MINT 7 1973 TOPPS 100 HANK AARON Card US
10 1 15571899 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS 260 JOHNNY BENCH Card US
11 1 15571900 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS 620 ROOKIE CATCHERS- OUTFIELDERS Card US
12 1 15571901 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1975 TOPPS 5 '74 HIGHLIGHTS NOLAN RYAN Card US
13 1 15571902 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1958 TOPPS 5 WILLIE MAYS Card US
14 1 15571903 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1953 TOPPS 191 RALPH KINER Card US
15 1 15571904 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1971 TOPPS 676 TOMMIE REYNOLDS Card US
Total Items: 15
Date Received: 12/1/2008
Date Shipped: 12/4/2008
Order Status: Shipped

TheMcgwireMuseum · December 21, 2008 9:10AM

where's the scans?

nam812 · December 21, 2008 9:13AM

Here's a scan of a sub you might be happier with:

lsutigers1973 · December 21, 2008 9:20AM

They all look to be graded accurately if not a little generously. Every card posted with scan is OC with one corner that appears to be a little dinged.

cefy1 · December 21, 2008 9:22AM

Grades look right to me based on the centering.

Mickey71 · December 21, 2008 9:32AM

The scans may not be the greatest. The corners have no dings. Extremely minor touches. The Gary Carter is almost perfectly centered. If most of you are saying that these are O/C, what standards are you applying that make these o/c. PSA 8's can be 65/35. I do not think any card I scanned is worse than 65/35. I did not say these were 9's or 10's. The 69 Aaron is razor sharp.

Mickey71

StanTheManMusial · December 21, 2008 9:35AM

The Aaron you speak of looks accurately graded, as does the others.

fergie23 · December 21, 2008 9:38AM

The Carter looks like an 8. The others are too OC to pass the eye appeal test for me. A kinder grader might have given you 8s on some of them.

Robb

Boopotts · December 21, 2008 9:39AM

<< <i>The scans may not be the greatest. The corners have no dings. Extremely minor touches. The Gary Carter is almost perfectly centered. If most of you are saying that these are O/C, what standards are you applying that make these o/c. PSA 8's can be 65/35. I do not think any card I scanned is worse than 65/35. I did not say these were 9's or 10's. The 69 Aaron is razor sharp.

Mickey71 >>

That may be what the grading standard say, but anyone who's submitted a fair quantity of vintage will tell you that cards with the centering which most of these exhibit will not end up in PSA 8 holders more than 10-15% of the time, even if the centering 'technically' meets the criteria for a PSA 8. So, while your cards may be undergraded based on PSA's written standards, they are in no way undergraded based on the standards which PSA graders apply to cards in 'real life'.

lsutigers1973 · December 21, 2008 9:39AM

65/35 T/B or L/R can still be an 8 but not if the front is OC both directions. The 69 aaron appears to be more like 70/30 or 75/25 L/R, not to mention it is OC T/B too.

53BKid · December 21, 2008 9:55AM

<< <i>65/35 T/B or L/R can still be an 8 but not if the front is OC both directions. The 69 aaron appears to be more like 70/30 or 75/25 L/R, not to mention it is OC T/B too. >>

Examining the Aaron under 400 magnification, left to right is 135/111 mm or 54%/46%.

julen23 · December 21, 2008 9:55AM

centering on '69 aaron prevented better grade.

carter rc ^ santo cards look very very nice.

oh how grading paradigm has changed in a year.

J

mealeworm · December 21, 2008 10:18AM

The Carter looks better, but the others look about right. I feel for you because I got burned on my last two smaller subs. Not one was higher than
I thought and 4 out of 11 were lower. The ones that were lower were the most expensive ones of the bunch but that doesn't matter

Bosox1976 · December 21, 2008 10:27AM

I'd say you got hosed. Centering for all is within guidelines for 8's - as is a slight touch or two:

NM-MT 8: Near Mint-Mint.
A PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

Carter RC and the football seem to fit the description. Hard to see the touched corner on the Aaron.

Sportsamerica · December 21, 2008 10:29AM

What does the back of the carter look like? That might be the issue...

jswieton · December 21, 2008 12:50PM

I agree that the centering falls within the limits of an 8. There could be other issues going on with the cards. How do the backs and edges look? It seems that Psa is sometimes inconsistent with how they grade the centering. It seems like it depends on how old the cards are and how wide the borders of the cards are. They seem to be allot more forgiving with cards with wider borders. It might just be an optical illusion but that’s how it appears to me. I just got this Lebron back and I thought I was going to get a PSA 9 (OC) or an 8 for sure because of the centering.
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IchiroDeported · December 21, 2008 12:58PM

i think you got a mixed back. the carter and the santo seem undergraded, the others seem accurately graded. I dont like the centering.

ldferg · December 21, 2008 12:59PM

from the scans, the one that looks to be 'under' graded is the carter. i agree the centering is knocking these down for you. did you request no qualifiers?

OAKESY25 · December 21, 2008 1:10PM

I thought this had a shot at an 8.. perfect condition.. real beauty.. centering!!! ughh

Mickey71 · December 21, 2008 1:23PM

Here are some of the backs. The backs are high end "big time".

otwcards · December 21, 2008 1:41PM

Perhaps it is the scans, but there appears to be more wear, especially on the bottom edges that, when combined with the marginal centering, equates to the grades being correct.

jswieton · December 21, 2008 4:39PM

<< <i>I thought this had a shot at an 8.. perfect condition.. real beauty.. centering!!! ughh

>>

you should try cracking that bob clemente out and resubing it. That looks like an 8 4sure. I can guarentee you if that card was a 1961 common they would have given it an 8. The higher $ gards seem to get graded a lot harder.

TJMAC · December 21, 2008 9:02PM

The Carter and Santo look like 8's to me. Great looking cards regardless of the grade.

Morgoth · December 21, 2008 10:50PM

I think you got screwed on the Aaron and Carter. If you resub both they will eventually get 8s. Not all 7's are created equal, I would rather have your 7's than this POC. Probably the worst 7 I have seen in a long time.

1960toppsguy · December 21, 2008 11:01PM

I'd say you are fairly fortuniate to have 7's on most of those cards.

WinPitcher · December 21, 2008 11:04PM

lol boy some here really know how to split hairs.

grades of cards that are 7 and or 8 can be interchanged daily.

Ive even seen 6's become 8's and 8's become 6's.

If grading was scientific I'd whine more myself, it isn't and thus we

always seem t split hairs when our cards do not achieve the desired grades.

So basically you have 3 choices, sell them raw and declare them (in this case) NM/MNT

resub them hoping they get bumped, or accept them for what they are (or were on that day anyway)

Steve

WinPitcher · December 21, 2008 11:05PM

The Banks above would have been better served had it been put into a 9 OC slab.

Steve

WinPitcher · December 21, 2008 11:08PM

Except for the Carter I think the grades were appropriate. I sent in a 75 Munson that I too
thought was a sure 8 possibly a 9 and it got a 7. 75's are tough.

IMO cards that have centering issues like these have are NM out of the pack.

Steve

rbdjr1 · December 21, 2008 11:30PM

I would send the entire batch addressed to Joe Orlando, and ask if he could get these cards reviewed for a possible upgrade. make sure you complete the proper paperwork and enclose a check for regrading & for return registered mail. A beautiful Christmas card to Joe and the family can't hurt!

rd

bobbybakeriv · December 22, 2008 12:08AM

I'd say the Carter is undergraded. Sorry to see your bad luck. Try it again!

Morgoth · December 22, 2008 12:47AM

Steve the problem I have with the banks is that it doesn't have nine corners. You can see the dinged even in that crappy scan. Doesn't qualify for centering and corners dont give it the bump to 9 oc status, I can't see how it grades 7, could be a WIWAG but in a new holder

I was not happy with this sub- with scans

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