The Unfairness of the Current Ebay System
brian26
Posts: 826
I don't sell much on Ebay, so this is why I get so frustrated with the system....
I sold a game-used baseball bat a couple of weeks ago. The auction ended for $60.00 or so on a Wednesday night. I was hoping the buyer would send paypal quickly because there was something I wanted to buy, but that didn't happen. The next morning I sent the Ebay invoice. On Friday, I sent a friendly reminder suggesting I could drop off the bat at the post office if they could send payment before Saturday at lunch. No response. No response for the rest of the weekend through all of the Thanksgiving holiday week. Sent another reminder on day 7 and opened up a non-paying-bidder case. No repsonse. Looked up their info on Ebay and made two friendly calls...got the answering machine both times. So eight days after I filed the npb case, I was finally able to close the case since they never responded. I got my FVF's refunded, but of course my credit card was billed last week for the auction already.
15 days after the auction, I have an opporunity to send a second-chance offer to the bidder who was 2nd in the auction, but unfortunately he hasn't responded either. Heck, 15 days after the auction, does he even remember he bid on this item? Does he have the same interest in the item? Probably not.
What irritates me the most is that after all of this time and energy on my part to sell this item (basically 15 days of my life were wasted as now I'm back to square one), the Ebay system does not even give this guy an automatic negative on his feedback. He still has the same stinkin' feedback as he did before he ever bid on my auction. How is that fair?
I sold a game-used baseball bat a couple of weeks ago. The auction ended for $60.00 or so on a Wednesday night. I was hoping the buyer would send paypal quickly because there was something I wanted to buy, but that didn't happen. The next morning I sent the Ebay invoice. On Friday, I sent a friendly reminder suggesting I could drop off the bat at the post office if they could send payment before Saturday at lunch. No response. No response for the rest of the weekend through all of the Thanksgiving holiday week. Sent another reminder on day 7 and opened up a non-paying-bidder case. No repsonse. Looked up their info on Ebay and made two friendly calls...got the answering machine both times. So eight days after I filed the npb case, I was finally able to close the case since they never responded. I got my FVF's refunded, but of course my credit card was billed last week for the auction already.
15 days after the auction, I have an opporunity to send a second-chance offer to the bidder who was 2nd in the auction, but unfortunately he hasn't responded either. Heck, 15 days after the auction, does he even remember he bid on this item? Does he have the same interest in the item? Probably not.
What irritates me the most is that after all of this time and energy on my part to sell this item (basically 15 days of my life were wasted as now I'm back to square one), the Ebay system does not even give this guy an automatic negative on his feedback. He still has the same stinkin' feedback as he did before he ever bid on my auction. How is that fair?
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Comments
If something works ... WHY CHANGE IT?!
Then when a new CEO comes into the door all we see is increases in fees and BIG changes that hurt the system.
end. They kept telling me if he continued to get NPB strikes he would be kicked off....that didnt' help me any! I almost thought of dropping him a
positive, but kill him in the comment section. I didn't. Im so glad that most of my cards are gone, so I don't have to deal with ebay's crap.
JS
Sellers should have the option to NEG buyers if they do not come through with payment.
Like I said before for 10+ years eBay was BALANCED................then a new CEO comes in and makes HUGE changes that hurt eBay's soul......the SELLER.
They put the time and effort to list the item and get charged fees.
People want to know if a seller is trustworthy ..... so they check their feedback....................... same should be for buyer.
<< <i>Because giving buyers negs doesn't help anyone. No seller pre-screens their buyers, and if they did they'd need their heads examined, since the hassles of having low-feedback, potential-deadbeat bidders are far outweighted by the extra money you generate from their bids. Why do you want this guy to get a neg? Because it will make you feel better? That's fine as far as it goes, but the Ebay experience isn't 'improved' in any discernible way by having sellers negging buyers. >>
This particular person who bought my item also sells stuff on Ebay. The negative would hurt him, and there must be some measure of checks and balances to keep things fair. This guy just wasted 22 days of my life (seven for the auction, seven for the 7-day period waiting for payment, and then 8-days for the FVFs to be reimbursed and the ability to re-list).
<< <i>eBay had a balanced system for 10+ years.....now they are giving sellers no say! Seller pay the fees and have to wait for payments!
Sellers should have the option to NEG buyers if they do not come through with payment.
Like I said before for 10+ years eBay was BALANCED................then a new CEO comes in and makes HUGE changes that hurt eBay's soul......the SELLER.
They put the time and effort to list the item and get charged fees.
People want to know if a seller is trustworthy ..... so they check their feedback....................... same should be for buyer. >>
If I saw a bidder pop up on one my my auctions that had, for example, several negatives for non-payment, you damn bet I would probably cancel his bid and block him.
If I saw a bidder pop up on one my my auctions that had, for example, several negatives for non-payment, you damn bet I would probably cancel his bid and block him. >>
I would do the same!
Shipping charges are limited and Paypal is the only payment of choice, Paypal will take their cut of shipping as well. They use to calculate their commission from total sale, now they will include shipping to improve their bottom line at your expense.
In addition to these changes, eBay is going on rampage shutting off accounts for any reason they wish and they usually don't care to give specific reasons. Their long term goals is to become Amazon, they want to sell the items for bigger markups *** GREED *** GREED**** GREED ** Small sellers are no longer welcomed as they are perceived to be “Yard sale” Guys per latest Ebay CEO comments..
Did you ever have a charge back via PayPal? If you did you will know the level of service PayPal offers! They will treat you as criminal and freeze your funds, no funds in the PayPal account? No Problem, you gave them permission to take your money from your checking account. remember the “fine” print?
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Brian:
When we invest our emotions in a screwball RICO-Enterprise like EBAY,
WE are responsible for the time we "waste." It is NOT EBAY's fault -
nor the numpty buyer's - when we get emotionally and financially damaged
by the failed transactions. WE own the damage and WE did it to ourselves.
JD does not know our names or care about us. He is NOT the least bit
stressed that he is running the company into the ground. It is foolish
for us to be stressed that HIS failures are "messing with us." It is more
fun to laugh at the mess than to take it personally.
.....
Folks who rely on a sale for money to buy something else, need to use
Immediate Payment Required OR get a new plan. The "new" EBAY is
definitely NOT for everybody.
The listing count is hovering near 30-million items. The sell through rate
will soon be in single digits. It is already below ONE-Percent for some
of the "Diamond PowerSellers."
It is not EBAY's job to be "fair." They have taken a path that has destroyed
BILLIONS of dollars in shareholder equity. The $60 NPB is sort of tiny compared
to the losses suffered by the tutes/pensioners/ investors, who seldom think about
"fairness;" they are just pist that they let a marooooooooon run/ruin the company.
EVERYBODY needs to accept that if they cannot make money on EBAY, they need
a new plan. Being depressed and demoralized by the incompetence of a Bain-trained
buffoon should not be on the menu for sellers.
It is comfortable to play on EBAY. When it is not profitable, we simply need to play
on another team. There are TONS of places to sell online. The notion that "only
EBAY has traffic" is nonsense; sellers make their own traffic via learning to play
the google game.
EBAY is NOT the boss of me. It is one of my advertising vendors. I hire it to help
me make money; when they screw-up, I fire them, they don't fire me.....even
if their nutty DSR-scheme thinks the opposite is true.
There is no peace and no money in "longing for the old EBAY." It is history and
the stuff we have learned on EBAY for the past 10-years+ is OURS to take with
us.......wherever we go.
Everybody has a different pain-threshold when dealing with EBAY. Mine is SUPER
high. I ONLY care about making money, and am willing to endure LOTS of indignities
to do it.
I will leave EBAY when I can't make money. Until then, JD will have to pry the mouse
from my cold dead hand, if he wants me out. BUT, I have LOTS of exit strategies and
LOTS of "plan Bs." Everbody needs lots of baskets for their eggs; one is not enough.
..............
emovieposters - Bruce - was paying EBAY about $200K a year in fees. When he bailed
out - eight months ago - JD said Bruce would come "crawling back." emovieposters
now makes TWICE as much money as it ever did on EBAY, and has less than HALF the
expenses.
If you hate the way EBAY treats its sellers, be a Bruce.
Whatever you do, NEVER quit. ALL you have to do to win - eventually - is to keep playing.
<< <i>
<< <i>Because giving buyers negs doesn't help anyone. No seller pre-screens their buyers, and if they did they'd need their heads examined, since the hassles of having low-feedback, potential-deadbeat bidders are far outweighted by the extra money you generate from their bids. Why do you want this guy to get a neg? Because it will make you feel better? That's fine as far as it goes, but the Ebay experience isn't 'improved' in any discernible way by having sellers negging buyers. >>
This particular person who bought my item also sells stuff on Ebay. The negative would hurt him, and there must be some measure of checks and balances to keep things fair. This guy just wasted 22 days of my life (seven for the auction, seven for the 7-day period waiting for payment, and then 8-days for the FVFs to be reimbursed and the ability to re-list). >>
You aren't weighing the positives vs. the negatives. Nobody's saying the current system is optimal (although I think it's a vast improvement over the old system). What's important is whether or not the Ebay experience, in the aggregate, is better (or worse) when sellers can't neg buyers.
For instance, I can point out all kinds of drawbacks to democracy-- but that's not the same as saying there is a better alternative available. And when you measure the pros vs. the cons with the current system I think the scale weighs heavily towards the pros.
I feel like calling Google to let them know..........
I am consumer biased, but I will point out the flaw even in the current system. If a buyer cannot prove payment, he deserves an automatic neg. I do not understand why that is not built into the system right now. Also, buyers who do not pay should not be able to leave feedback either. However, there may be a loop hole to all this. Say a seller is selling counterfeit collectibles. The buyer won the auction, but someone on the message board emailed the buyer to warn him the item is a fake. Will that buyer suffer in terms of feedback?
I am all for a mechanism where buyers must have the funds to pay immediately. Soon as they win a bid, the money should be automatically extracted from their credit card, paypal, checking account or what have you.
But you sellers must understand that when buyers do pay, they have a right to criticize you if you did not describe the item correctly. The petty stuff like how long it takes to ship is not important to me and I can sympathize with the small time sellers who do not do this as full time and cannot be at the post office everyday for one $5 package.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>Google should create an auction site, everyone would trust Google. Google checkout is safe and secure just like Paypal.
I feel like calling Google to let them know.......... >>
The do. It's called Google Base. No charge to list, and you can offer google checkout instead of paypal payment options. fees are half the cost.
There's just one little problem. The eyeballs on eBay dwarfs that on Google Base. But, Googles search engine traffic dwarfs that of eBays. So, one option is to buy a paid ad on Google that would drive traffic to your website for specific cards.
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The shareholders would disagree.
Somewhere between 80,000 and 200,000 good sellers have been
bot-suspended for DSR/CSR lapses during the past 6-months. Many
of the "dolphins" - as they are called by the bloggers - are longtime 100%
FB sellers with MANY years of experience.
VERY few scamsters get caught in JD's nets; just the dolphins.
The changes allowed JD to dump the little sellers without being blamed
for it. It is mathmatically impossible for a little seller to survive the DSR/CSR
scam, and JD gets to blame it all on "fussy buyers."
JD says EVERYDAY that he wishes he could tear the whole thing apart
and start over to build a platform that could compete with AMZN. It is
funny that he has indeed quickly torn the thing up, but more FUNNY
that his "blind vision" is NEVER going to be able to compete with Bezos.
......
As a seller who left ONE NEG for a buyer in almost 10-years, I agree
that leaving NEGs for buyers is goofy.
BUT, allowing scamsters and scum - posing as "buyers" - to put good sellers
out of business by leaving unwarranted FB and stars is even more goofy.
ps - If he never pays, you can always win one of his auctions and neg him that way.
Not only that, I had 2 offers from users to buy items outside of Ebay the first 2 days! Stupidity!
Robert
<< <i>i used Ebay to generate repeat customers and now sell more than half my stuff to them without any listing/final value fees. screw EBAY
That is sheer genius... coming from a repeat customer of some guys I used to deal with on ebay.
We Opened an online store and reduced the number of condition sensative items = ie. baseball cards. (Even graded items have problems.)
We are a lot happier having all the responsibility, no fees and no extra costs - all controlled by us. Our customers seem happy and I love the ability to post up to 10 photos per auction !
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I hear you.
I helped three folks open ecrater stores this week. My learning curve was
VERY steep, but after the second one I found it easier than EBAY.
I am particularly impressed by the SPEED at which ecrater dumps content
to google. MANY items were hitting page one within a few hours. The MSN
and YHOO spiders also grab stuff within 24-hours of FREE registration.
Promoting the stores is a lot of work, but not hard work. The absence of fees
at ecrater should allow folks to spend money on ads and other promotions.
There are no offsite ads that suck customers away from your own listings.
Stores can be linked from places like facebook, squidoo, twitter, myspace, etc.
One interesting feature is that sellers can set-up a freestanding website with
their own domain and forward the traffic directly to their ecrater stores. This
allows the promotion of the top-level domain without having to invest in the
powerful infrastructure that ecrater provides for FREE.
Sellers can accept whatever payment they wish, and google checkout is
SUPER cheap compared to PP. Also, as I have noted before, dealing with
PayPal off-EBAY is totally different and painless experience; none of the
"protection" nonsense that is used on EBAY to STEAL from sellers.
I tested google and PP, and found both worked perfectly at checkout.
Also, sellers can have FIVE stores under each ID. This allows for specialty
stores.
The FREE 10-picture limit sort of gets rid of the need for photo services.
The pics are the MONSTER-size guys, that cost a bunch on EBAY.
BEST of all, there is no interference from teenage maroooooooons and
poorly-designed bots. The bots do, however, police designer-fashion
for counterfeits, but unlike EBAY there is a FAST resolution scheme that
reinstates listings for mistakenly removed GENUINE items.
(Sellers simply fax/email the requested docs for fast review, and the
listings are put back; no need to do the whole listing over again, as
must be done on EBAY's takedowns. ecrater will also pre-approve
listings for copyrighted items in bulk, PRIOR to the seller wasting time
creating ads for items that might later be rejected.)
I don't like the small typefaces, and the small selection of graphic options,
but it is minor and most EBAYers would probably not be bothered by it.
There are ACTUAL live-folks who answer phones and offer patient help.
Since EBAY stores no longer get their share of traffic - and there is little
that sellers can do to promote those stores - it seems ecrater has the
right solution for folks who want the advantages of their own website
AND are willing to work to drive traffic.
As soon as the holidays are over, some of my eggs will go into the
ecrater basket.
Hi there. I know what your going through. I am going to start the process tonight on a npb. I sold a card 8 days ago and haven't recieved payment. I wouldn't really get upset, but I checked the buyers feedback and he has bought about $300 worth of cards in the past week and since he could pay these other sellers he should be able to pay me. I think that deserves a neg.
Now that eBay is going to an all paypal system I would think they could or would set something up where they didn't take the fvf's out until a buyer paid. That way the seller wouldn't have to go through the hasle of filing the npb and waiting for a refund.
to google. MANY items were hitting page one within a few hours. The MSN
and YHOO spiders also grab stuff within 24-hours of FREE registration. >>>
That's good to hear - there is no doubt that Google's search algorithm limits or blocks many of the ebay auctions and sales.
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The general problem is related to the VERY poor relationship between
EBAY and google.
EBAY is google's LARGEST customer. They buy more words - at higher
prices - than any other customer.
When google becomes disgusted with EBAY's unreasonable pricing
demands, google institutes the "punishment package," discounts -
via rebates - placement costs to lower-tier customers, and displaces
EBAY in natural selection.
.........
Also, "BestMatch" simply does NOT work. I know that on this card forum,
there is no complaint about BM, but in ALL other categories BM is seen
as the worst change that EBAY has ever made. google sucks from the
indexing that EBAY provides on its open servers. When the content of
the index is nonsense or not-relevant - as is the case with MUCH of
BM-indexing - items are routinely passed over by google, even if EBAY
has purchased some of the adwords contained in the missed listings.
Here is a fictitous example:
EBAY listing:
"Duke Snider Relic Card Game Used Jersey."
BestMatch return on search for the above listing using the search term "Duke Snider Game Used:"
MANY items are displayed, but NOT the subject listing.
In that example, BM has concentrated on the absence of the word "relic." (An irrelevant word to
buyers, but VERY relevant to BM.)
This kind of indexing can cause MANY EBAY titles to be passed over by google, or to be
picked-up BUT assigned a deep-page display; page 10 instead of page one.
"Garbage In, Garbage Out" actually does apply to the BM info that EBAY provides
for google to access. google knows it, EBAY says "BM delivers what buyers want."
Also, EBAY now attempts to help assure that folks who have "raised/elevated"
search standing on the site, ALSO get preference within the search engines.
Good for Diamond PowerSellers, with 1% STRs, but not good for ordinary sellers.
.......................................
On the STR issue: Sell Through Rates are at the heart of success for EBAY's
longtime sellers. Historically, we list and most of it sells; not as good today
as it has been in the past, but still pretty good. Small sellers cannot use
EBAY w/o maintaining HIGH STRs. We cannot pay to list stuff in CORE that
does not sell.
Diamond Power Sellers don't have that problem.
Example:
They can list 1M items, sell 10,000 items, and be happy. That is a 1% STR.
They can list $1-million of merch and sell $1,000, and be HAPPY.
MOST pay no fees, UNLESS their items sell. They then pay a percentage
to EBAY.
On the above $1,000 sale, the DPS likely ends up with about $900. His
COGS is low because he sells carp made by slaves in Com-Chi, and
all he has to do to keep the money flowing is push a few computer keys
to constantly relist his unsold garbage; most of which garbage is dropshipped
directly to his buyer and NEVER touched/warehoused by him.
The "level playing field" that Pierre promised to safeguard is LONG gone.
Collectible sellers can use ecrater and their own sites to create their own
level field.
......................
A Few Dolphins In JD's Net
Ebays FB system has always sucked, it just sucked a different way. Buyers were getting screwed over by disreputable sellers mis-decribing thier items and when a buyer mentioned that in the FB, they got a retaliation neg. Sellers would withhold positives for buyers who paid promptly until the buyer left FB, because the sellers were scared they would get a neg due to their "description" or slow shipping times.
Ebay responded to this by going off the deep end in the other direction.
The solution to this whole problem would have been to allow people to have a different rating for buying and for selling. You would have the worst of both worlds, but it would be fair and equal to all parties. Of course the best thing to do would be to remove a numerical number and force buyers to "READ" the feedback and decide on their own.