The 1951 Mays Delema: Is this normal, or a trim job? (VERDICT IS IN: THE CARD IS OK)

digicat · October 28, 2008 5:11AM

I recently picked up my "dream" card, a 1951 Bowman Willie Mays. However, when I got the card in my hands, a close inspection of one of the right edge got me worried.

Along the right hand side of the card (when viewed horizontaly), the edge is not straight, and flairs out a little at the bottom.

I got a few close-up pics of that edge, and you can see some odd cut marks.

The holder looks intact. Could PSA have missed a trim job, or is this just what 1951 Bowman cards look like?

BunchOBull · October 28, 2008 5:21AM

It may just be a slight dogear from the cutting process...but the grain right on the corner looks different than the remaining right edge...that may just be wear though.

BunchOBull · October 28, 2008 5:22AM

One other thing...may be a spooned out corner...it looks pancaked from the side and from above slightly greater in dimension.

edit to add: That's such a beautiful card, the grade isn't fitting, even with the centering and corner wear...the issue may be completely mechanical and may explain what is, I believe to be, a low grade for such quality appearance.

digicat · October 28, 2008 5:26AM

The grain of the cut is what bothers me. It looks like it was cut with multiple strokes when viewed through a loupe. Kinda like it was whittled on or something. And it's just that edge too. The top and bottom edges are kinda rough (like other 51s that I own). The left edge looks like the edges on other 51s that I own. The right edge though, looks different. The last scan shows the odd grain of the edge the best of all the pics.

BunchOBull · October 28, 2008 5:30AM

I don't know much about these issues, but OPC from the late '80s on back, display different horizontal and vertical cutting grain. How does it compare to the left side? They should be really similar.

Ya know, your concern is valid, I'd feel the same, but something here is saying "not a trim job." I just can't prove that statement.

edited to add: sorry, you answered the question already.

digicat · October 28, 2008 5:30AM

<< How does it compare to the left side? >>

They're totally different.

With the ammount of coin on the table with this, I need to be 100% sure that I'm not getting a bad card. Getting one that's already professionaly graded is step one, but sometimes errors are still made.

BunchOBull · October 28, 2008 5:37AM

I'd definitely contact Joe and tell him what's up. Provide these images too. I'm sure he'll be helpful.

originalisbest · October 28, 2008 5:45AM

I think you're over-analyzing... card edge looks fine, and typical. Really, I think you have no worries and an email to Joe should put your mind at ease. Nice card!

Ladder7 · October 28, 2008 5:49AM

I've got a '51 B with a similarly cut edge and I'm certain it is unaltered... On mine, the roughest edge is across the top. The flared edge could be from nearly 60 years of being handled. Also, your Mays borders don't appear undersized. Regardless of what's said here, I'd be comfortable if it was on my list. But, it seems you'll be doubting that card's legitimacy and may want a refund for PoM.

Your hi res scans magnifies all the wear. Still, it's a very nice, low-end 6.

fattymacs · October 28, 2008 6:17AM

Looks like a 51 rough cut to me. I'll examine a few closely when I get home.

BunchOBull · October 28, 2008 6:24AM

I'm glad some folks experienced with this issue chimed in, I think it's a beautiful card, glad to hear the consensus is of approval.

Ironmanfan · October 28, 2008 7:24AM

Buy the holder not the card

digicat · October 28, 2008 7:27AM

<< Buy the holder not the card >>

Umm.. k.

originalisbest · October 28, 2008 7:50AM

That's a sweetly centered lo-grade Mick, ladder!!!

HAMMERFAN44 · October 28, 2008 8:23AM

Solid grade, killer card digicat...congrats!

StopYurWhining · October 28, 2008 8:29AM

im sure its fine; otherwise why pay all that extra money for the plastic coffin?

leathtech · October 28, 2008 10:12AM

Sweet looking card - The scan looks great to what model scanner do you have?

digicat · November 5, 2008 9:25AM

I contacted PSA and arranged to send the card back for a free review. The offiicial verdict:

"After reviewing your ‘51 Bowman #305 Mays card (Cert #31102294), our head grader has determined that your card does not show evidence of trimming. The top edge is a bit rough, but not abnormal. Therefore we feel confident the card is not altered and it is correctly graded an EX-MT 6."

Being that I plunked down almost $1500 for this card, I figured I couldn't be too cautious, even if it did make me look like a hypochondriac.

bman90278 · November 5, 2008 9:33AM

I'm very happy to hear that PSA's head grader says there is no evidence of trimming and that the card stayed in it's holder. Congrats.

brian

rube26105 · November 5, 2008 10:16AM

i just woke up and saw the card and my brain said "what you talkin bout willis"

hes got that gary coleman look to him or something there, maybe its just me

fuj · November 5, 2008 10:54AM

That is a relief. All that worrying over nothing! Glad it worked out.

RipublicaninMass · November 5, 2008 11:52AM

LOVE te card. Always wonderdered where that Burlap back stop and the barn in the background is??

MBMiller25 · November 5, 2008 12:50PM

Great Mays card, Where did you purchase it from? Glad to hear it came back clean!

bcwcardz · November 6, 2008 7:09AM

Do you think if it was trimmed that they would actually tell you? PSA is not one to admit mistakes thats for sure by seeing threads go poof is evidence of this.

WinPitcher · November 6, 2008 7:30AM

I thought the same thing yesterday when I first read this. What else did you expect them to say?

IMO if I felt it was trimmed I'd send it to SGC for there opinion.

I also think the card is ok but I don't have it in hand.

Always good to get an un biased opinion.

Steve

stevek · November 6, 2008 7:34AM

<< I thought the same thing yesterday when I first read this. What else did you expect them to say?

IMO if I felt it was trimmed I'd send it to SGC for there opinion.

I also think the card is ok but I don't have it in hand.

Always good to get an un biased opinion.

Steve >>

Makes perfect sense.

stevek · November 6, 2008 7:36AM

<< 

<< I thought the same thing yesterday when I first read this. What else did you expect them to say?

IMO if I felt it was trimmed I'd send it to SGC for there opinion.

I also think the card is ok but I don't have it in hand.

Always good to get an un biased opinion.

Steve >>

Makes perfect sense. >>

but BTW - I agree that the card doesn't appear trimmed...but very hard to tell if not in hand.

digicat · November 6, 2008 7:44AM

<< Do you think if it was trimmed that they would actually tell you? PSA is not one to admit mistakes thats for sure by seeing threads go poof is evidence of this. >>

<< IMO if I felt it was trimmed I'd send it to SGC for there opinion. >>

If I sent it to SGC and they decided that it was trimmed, I'd then have SGC's word vs PSA's word, which is not going to get me my money back. If PSA decided it was trimmed, they'd have compensated me. If they determined that the holder had been compromised, I'd have recourse against the original seller to get my money back.

In the past, I have sent a few problemed PSA slabbed cards back to PSA for evaluation, and in those times, they agreed with my assessments and took care of me. I trust PSA's professionalism and their product guarantee. Otherwise, why would I buy PSA graded cards?

bcwcardz · November 6, 2008 7:57AM

the best way would have been to crack it then submit it to psa as a raw card and see how it comes back.On an expensive card like this that seems a lil extreme but just as an experiment the next time this issue comes up for anyone ,crack it and resub and post the results here.Ill keep my eye open for inexpensive guinea pigs.

WinPitcher · November 6, 2008 10:09AM

If I sent it to SGC and they decided that it was trimmed, I'd then have SGC's word vs PSA's word

Then I am not sure what you want here, it was in a PSA slab that was uncompromised that should have been good enough.

Steve

digicat · November 6, 2008 10:59AM

<< Then I am not sure what you want here, it was in a PSA slab that was uncompromised that should have been good enough. >>

I saw something that worried me and wanted PSA to comment on it. They did, and I'm happy.

As I said, I've found a few cases where PSA made a grading error, and they made things right when asked about it.

And, as I said before, I was looking to cover my bases, as this was a significant purchase for me. The 3 possible outcomes would have been:

1) PSA says the card is OK
2) PSA says the card is trimmed, and compensates me for it
3) PSA says the slab was tampered with, and I go after the original seller to get my money back

The 1951 Mays Delema: Is this normal, or a trim job? (VERDICT IS IN: THE CARD IS OK)

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