Fun Story - poppage on a 1/1 1916 Zeenut Jimmy Claxton - SCAN ADDED
VitoCo1972
Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭
So, a buddy of mine in his late 30's has been collecting baseball cards with his dad since he was a kid in the 70's. They used to go to flea markets and just pickup whatever was being sold cheap. One day, they bought a few older cards (he doesn't remember what they paid - not much I wouldn't think), a couple Ramleys, a few Cracker Jacks in decent shape - no stars. But there was this one card in great shape for it's age - a 1916 ZeeNut Jimmy Claxton. A few weeks ago he asked me to drop by and go through the whole grading process with him. I went through most of his stuff - some great things. The guy collects everything and has awesome old stuff. Some really nice Red Hearts, a full Ted Williams Fleer set (he's a big Williams guy - and if he graded all his Williams would challenge for #1 on the Ted Williams Master registry) and the Claxton jumped out at me. The Claxton was in a penny sleeve floating around in a cracked snap case. I nearly fainted. I was like, "dude, you need to protect this NOW." So I put together about 12 cards for him to send in as a grading intro. 3 different subs - the first one was just the Claxton on the 24 hour turnaround. Well, it just popped:
1 EXCELLENT 5 1916 ZEENUT PACIFIC COAST LEAGUE JIMMY CLAXTON HAND CUT
For those that don't know, Claxton was the first African American to play white dominated high level professional baseball - 31 years before Jackie Robinson. He only played (I think) 1-2 games before being found out to be black - they had said he was a dark skinned Cuban I believe. If someone has a good story on Jimmy, I'd love to read it.
I checked SGC and PSA's pop reports and it's the second highest 1916 ZeeNut ever graded and the only Claxton ever graded. I remember someone posting on here awhile ago that this was their white whale. Now, he has no intention of selling it, although I'd be curious what people think it would bring on the open market. I'm so excited for him. He doesn't post here so I HAD to tell the story to people who would get kick out of it. He told me I could post the story as long as people didn't start offering him money or trades for it! Also, if there are no others graded, what's the estimate on how many others could possibly be out there?
He told me he'd send me a scan when it's back to him in a few days.
1 EXCELLENT 5 1916 ZEENUT PACIFIC COAST LEAGUE JIMMY CLAXTON HAND CUT
For those that don't know, Claxton was the first African American to play white dominated high level professional baseball - 31 years before Jackie Robinson. He only played (I think) 1-2 games before being found out to be black - they had said he was a dark skinned Cuban I believe. If someone has a good story on Jimmy, I'd love to read it.
I checked SGC and PSA's pop reports and it's the second highest 1916 ZeeNut ever graded and the only Claxton ever graded. I remember someone posting on here awhile ago that this was their white whale. Now, he has no intention of selling it, although I'd be curious what people think it would bring on the open market. I'm so excited for him. He doesn't post here so I HAD to tell the story to people who would get kick out of it. He told me I could post the story as long as people didn't start offering him money or trades for it! Also, if there are no others graded, what's the estimate on how many others could possibly be out there?
He told me he'd send me a scan when it's back to him in a few days.
0
Comments
<< <i>
For those that don't know, Claxton was the first African American to play white dominated high level professional baseball - 31 years before Jackie Robinson. He only played (I think) 1-2 games before being found out to be black - they had said he was a dark skinned Cuban I believe. If someone has a good story on Jimmy, I'd love to read it.
>>
There was a player named Fleetwood Walker, you might want to do a little history check on. I realize history can be very painful . Armando Marsens was supposed to be from Cuba as well .
Knowing the truth, no matter how painful , is better than drinking the Koolaid.
Delusionment , although consicletory (SP?) , in the end , has a bitter price.
Very nice poppage , none the less--congrats!!!
Bosox1976
Yes, Walker was the first African-American ballplayer. Yes, the International League in 1887 modified its ban against black ballplayers.
Claxton played in the PCL for a game or two about 30 years later [I heard that Claxton was passed off as an American Indian...] before he was found out to have African-American Ancestry.
You can argue about whom was first or not, or you can just say congratulations on the nice poppage and for obtaining one of the first African-American professional baseball cards in existence.
M
p.s. I would guess that that Zeenut would sell for much more than $10,000, probably greater than $20k, depending on the strength of the image.
Wow, nice
Steve
<< <i>calaban7: why do you have to come across as such an @$$ about that...?
Yes, Walker was the first African-American ballplayer. Yes, the International League in 1887 modified its ban against black ballplayers.
Claxton played in the PCL for a game or two about 30 years later [I heard that Claxton was passed off as an American Indian...] before he was found out to have African-American Ancestry.
You can argue about whom was first or not, or you can just say congratulations on the nice poppage and for obtaining one of the first African-American professional baseball cards in existence.
M >>
I'm sorry for coming across as an @$$. I guess , i've never been very PC. When I was in 4rth grade, our teacher Mr. Quigley, at the beginning of every class , made the folowing statement " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows." All year long, the same statement. When we had the end year final, that was one of the questions. True or false " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows? " I was one of maybe 10 students , out of probably 28 that answered correctly.
I know a little about unrevised history, including baseball history. I also know that setting history straight , can make one appear to be an @$$. Its better than sharing the koolaid.
I did congradulate him on his poppage , as its very well deserved. Hope this helps.
Steve
That may change when he finds out it can fetch up to 20 k.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>calaban7: why do you have to come across as such an @$$ about that...?
Yes, Walker was the first African-American ballplayer. Yes, the International League in 1887 modified its ban against black ballplayers.
Claxton played in the PCL for a game or two about 30 years later [I heard that Claxton was passed off as an American Indian...] before he was found out to have African-American Ancestry.
You can argue about whom was first or not, or you can just say congratulations on the nice poppage and for obtaining one of the first African-American professional baseball cards in existence.
M >>
I'm sorry for coming across as an @$$. I guess , i've never been very PC. When I was in 4rth grade, our teacher Mr. Quigley, at the beginning of every class , made the folowing statement " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows." All year long, the same statement. When we had the end year final, that was one of the questions. True or false " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows? " I was one of maybe 10 students , out of probably 28 that answered correctly.
I know a little about unrevised history, including baseball history. I also know that setting history straight , can make one appear to be an @$$. Its better than sharing the koolaid.
I did congradulate him on his poppage , as its very well deserved. Hope this helps. >>
How could the perpetuation of the idea that Claxton was the first pro black ballplayer be construed as campaign being staged by the politically correct?
<< <i>This article says Claxton was the first - and has a pictue of a Zeenut -- is this the one Vito? >>
Yep, that's the card! And Calaban - no worries. I'm way less interested in Jimmy Claxton's claim to being the first than the excellence of the card. If he was the first, great. if not, it's still a killer card
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I think you're confusing getting a simple historical fact wrong with "drinking the kool aid". I honestly doubt there is some sort of conspiracy to cover up the fact that the other guy(s) were African American and/or that they played before Claxron. I also don't think that being corrected on his error is "hurting" Vito in any way. I'm not sure anybody knows where you're coming from with this, but it sounds like you're trying to be Bill O'Reilly but completely missing the mark.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>calaban7: why do you have to come across as such an @$$ about that...?
Yes, Walker was the first African-American ballplayer. Yes, the International League in 1887 modified its ban against black ballplayers.
You can argue about whom was first or not, or you can just say congratulations on the nice poppage and for obtaining one of the first African-American professional baseball cards in existence.
M >>
I'm sorry for coming across as an @$$. I guess , i've never been very PC. When I was in 4rth grade, our teacher Mr. Quigley, at the beginning of every class , made the folowing statement " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows." All year long, the same statement. When we had the end year final, that was one of the questions. True or false " Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows? " I was one of maybe 10 students , out of probably 28 that answered correctly.
I know a little about unrevised history, including baseball history. I also know that setting history straight , can make one appear to be an @$$. Its better than sharing the koolaid.
I did congradulate him on his poppage , as its very well deserved. Hope this helps. >>
How could the perpetuation of the idea that Claxton was the first pro black ballplayer be construed as campaign being staged by the politically correct? >>
There is a reason that any answer , other than the real answer , needs to be given. Simply put, Who was the first black pro-player ? Is it that difficult to answer ? If the internation league or American Association were not the major leagues of their time, why not strike all the records , from that time , of those major league players that extended into the 20th century ? The answer is that they WERE the major leagues of their time . We have a problem then. Who are we told is the first black major leaguer ? Tough one , except it runs into the face of unrevised baseball history. Political correctness dictates that the great Jackie Robinson was the 1st, when he clearly was not.
Grant you , the Claxton card may be the 1st black card. I simply do not know. Its an impressive poppage no matter what. If its the first black card, its even more impressive , and worthy of what ever the market determines it to be.
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Congratulations again. Sorry for derailing your post. My wife thinks I need meds . Just a history buff though.
Great card !!!!!!!
TRUE NOTE FROM MY WIFE ::::: my husband really DOES KNOW HIS STUFF ABOUT BASEBALL,although HE does get carried away alot.
Obviously the MLB is a completely different issue, but nobody in this thread mentioned anything related to MLB besides you.
Post it on 54 and watch the water froth. I suspect you'll be contacted by a ton of collectors and a few auction houses wanting it.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>cant wait to see it, ive never heard of a zeenut card before >>
I believe this is a scan of a reprint of the card. Zeenuts from the teens are very difficult to find with coupon attached.
I have always been led to believe that they were the 'first'
I do not think Cal was being anything, and was just simply correcting the OP
In any event, I agree, post this topic over at net 54 and watch them 'froth'
Steve
Walker has traditionally been credited as the first African-American major league player. Recent research by the Society for American Baseball Research indicates William Edward White, who played one game for the Providence Grays in 1879, may have been the first.[9]
William Edward White was the son of a white former slaveholder from Georgia and his mixed-race mistress. White attended college at Brown University where he also played varsity baseball. He filled in for one game for the Grays on June 21 when the Providence team was short-handed.
It is unclear, however, if White's contemporaries in Rhode Island knew of his racial background. White's race is never mentioned in any accounts of his baseball exploits at Brown or with Providence. Furthermore, the 1880 census, as well as several later censuses, indicate his race as "white." He may have been passing as a white man during his time in Rhode Island.[10]
Sorry if this derailed the thread, but I found it interesting and never heard this before.
Thought I'd share.
Steve
i like it
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From baseball-reference.com
Moses Fleetwood Walker
Bats Right, Throws Right
Weight 159 lb.
Schools University of Michigan, Oberlin College
His brother was Welday Walker, who played 5 games in 1884, to Fleetwood's 42 games.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Steve
<< <i>You're all a bunch of Kool-Aid drinkers. I suggest trying Hi-C or Capri Sun for a change. >>
what? no Sunny-D?
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<< <i>My buddy's card doesn't have the coupon. It's nearly impossible, from what I'm told, to find them in tact. I only see one PSA card graded with a coupon. >>
Does anyone know if Mark's example has a coupon?
m
<< <i>If VitoCo1972's card is missing the coupon, how did it ever get a grade of 5?? I would think that would make this an incomplete card. I thought that they would only grade this as Authentic or at least note the missing coupon on the flip. I know they kill the Red Man cards without the coupon. A really great looking card >>
Again, it's not my card - it belongs to a friend. But - having the coupon is seen as being an unbelievable bonus. They only note on the PSA Flip if is HAS a label - not if it doesn't.
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<< <i>If VitoCo1972's card is missing the coupon, how did it ever get a grade of 5?? I would think that would make this an incomplete card. I thought that they would only grade this as Authentic or at least note the missing coupon on the flip. I know they kill the Red Man cards without the coupon. A really great looking card >>
There are a large number of issues that are graded without coupons / tabs, etc. Hires can be graded both ways.
The vast majority of Zeenut cards [those that were produced with tabs, which is not all of them] are found today without tabs, because of the redemption process. Especially Zeenut cards before the 1930s, there are very few examples extant with tabs. As such, they are typically collected w/o tabs, and although tabs command a huge premium, many cards, like Claxton [and Dimaggio in the 1930s] are exceptionally valuable without tabs.
m
It's PRETTTYYY!!!
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Looking for Charlie (Charley) Maxwell cards.
Auction house ?
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Only played a couple games yet at the right time and luck to be included in the 1916 E137 set. Introduced as an "Indian" player, but later after his friends showed up at a game he was found out to be black. The card was mentioned in the Burns film too.
For those that dont know the Zeeneut sets, Claxton is not any scarcer than any of the other 1916 Zeenuet cards. But then again finding any certain player Zeenut is very tough because the high number of different cards made over the 27 years they made cards. Out of the 4,000+ different Zeenut cards out there, there is only one Claxton pose. He is right up there with the Thorpe and 2 J.DiMaggio cards as the most desired E136/E137 cards.
I have seen about 10 Claxton examples over the years, this card (PSA-5) is one of the nicer ones. The scan of the coupon intact card is obviously 100X rarer because the coupons are so much tougher than a bottom trimmed (couponless) card. Coupon intact cards make up less than 1% of the cards that have survived.
IMO its a $8K card, anything more is overpaying.
<< <i>Since it's hand cut, I wonder if there is any room left for it to be made into a 7, 8, or better before being deemed only authentic? >>
The only place that there is allowed to be any alteration is the removal of the coupon, which is consistent with the original intent of distribution.
M