Ruth Auto

mnstortuga · August 15, 2008 8:23PM

So I really was excited when this guy said he had a Ruth Auto until I saw it...This "COA" looks like something my 6 year old neice did up on Word. Any thoughts? I'm going to send it to PSA/DNA non the less just to be sure.

schr1st · August 15, 2008 9:15PM

I'll be curious to see what PSA/DNA says. There is no way in hell I'd buy it, but I'll be curious to see what they say.

StanTheManMusial · August 15, 2008 9:20PM

I'd stay way clear of that one!

A forgery, but not as bad as some I have seen. No way PSA passes that. Save your money that you will be wasting for the PSA authentication/rejection fees.

PoppaJ · August 15, 2008 10:09PM

"In an unrelated matter, Half.com has learned that hundreds of certificates of authenticity originally issued by autograph authenticator Donald Frangipani have been fraudulently copied or altered. Until further notice, Half.com will not permit any use of certificates of authenticity on its site that have been issued by Donald Frangipani. Listings that refer to examinations or certificates of authenticity from Mr. Frangipani will not be allowed."

I'd stay away too!

PoppaJ

StanTheManMusial · August 15, 2008 10:17PM

A fraudulantly copied or altered Frangipani LOA is about as good as one directly from the man himself, as far as I am concerned. Neither is worth the ink or paper it's drawn up on, in my opinion. I'm sure many other seasoned autograph collectors feel the same way.

mnstortuga · August 15, 2008 10:33PM

Thanks guys! At least this client of mine has a few nice autos...I just pulled out a 1977 Yankees Team ball but no Reggie on it!

CARDSANDCOINS · August 15, 2008 10:56PM

Look for the Munson on the ball-not reggie!

oaktown · August 15, 2008 11:56PM

Frangipani was one of the 'authenticators' from the HBO series that centered around fake autographs. He basically would certify anything that came into his office.

mnstortuga · August 16, 2008 12:05AM

<< Look for the Munson on the ball-not reggie! >>

The Munson is on there and is just off the sweat spot. It is pretty nice but has a very slight hint of a smudge. My scanner is down as of a few hours ago but I'll post a few scans this afternoon.

Vintageismygame · August 16, 2008 1:02AM

For more on this subject, go to Youtube and type in Memorabilia and watch the video. It is about 15 minutes long.

Matt

Pete14Rose · August 16, 2008 1:04AM

<< Frangipani was one of the 'authenticators' from the HBO series that centered around fake autographs. He basically would certify anything that came into his office. >>

Was he the guy caught on hidden video forging autos?

bdunndchi · August 16, 2008 1:14AM

<< Frangipani was one of the 'authenticators' from the HBO series that centered around fake autographs. He basically would certify anything that came into his office. >>

I thought so.

Stone193 · August 16, 2008 1:34AM

Frangipani is suing HBO for that segment on Real Sports.

Regardless of the "connection" that was attempted with respect to him, I still think he's kind of shady and "would" authenticate stuff for the right price and has questionable skills.

mike

Pete14Rose · August 16, 2008 2:37AM

I've searched all morning and can't find it....and honestly can't tell you if it's the same guy....but I remember an undercover (hidden cam) video I watched a while back about a forger. The guy was caught on tape forging Babe Ruth autos. Then the "dealer" went into a box a pulled out dozens, upon dozens of Ted Williams, Jo Dimaggio and Babe Ruth autos. I am almost certain of the details. It was a while ago.

If anyone remembers anything similar, and can find a link, please provide it here. I am pretty sure it was an HBO piece.

Thanks,
Jay

SDSportsFan · August 16, 2008 3:20AM

Donald Frangipani was also an "authenticator of choice" for Coaches Corner Auctions.

That should tell you all you need to know right there.

RUN..........FAR..........AND FAST..........away from this Ruth, and anything else supposedly authenticated by Donald Frangipani

Steve

nam812 · August 23, 2008 6:37AM

<< 

<< Look for the Munson on the ball-not reggie! >>

The Munson is on there and is just off the sweat spot. It is pretty nice but has a very slight hint of a smudge. My scanner is down as of a few hours ago but I'll post a few scans this afternoon. >>

Maybe the smudge happened since it was so close to the "sweat" spot.

fkw · August 23, 2008 6:43AM

1) forgers rarely sign torn magazine photos. Why?... when you can sign a nice photo or ball and make 2-10X more.

2) the sig looks good.

But then again Ruths sig is not all the hard to forge.

You need history of the item from the family that owned it for the last 60+ years

HobbyKings · August 23, 2008 6:51AM

From my experince I would say its a fake.

HK

elsnorto · August 23, 2008 6:58AM

<< 1) forgers rarely sign torn magazine photos. Why?... when you can sign a nice photo or ball and make 2-10X more. >>

But given such items are easier to find and generally far less expensive to obtain, wouldn't paper items such as these be an excellent medium in the event the forger messes up?

Snorto~

SDSportsFan · August 23, 2008 7:15AM

<< 1) forgers rarely sign torn magazine photos. Why?... when you can sign a nice photo or ball and make 2-10X more. >>

Then again a smart forger, knowing the above, might try to pass their work on just such an item, thinking they stand a better chance of their ruse working since the average collector wouldn't expect such a "low value" item to be forged.

Steve

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 7:21AM

So was this shown to be a forgery?

I agree with FKW it looks awfully good to me too.

Ruth's auto is highly forged, heck back in the late 80's

a guy from Hartsdale NY got so greedy (or stupid) or both he used a felt pen!

He served a yr or 2 in the slammer for that.

Went by the name of danny ducheck and ran a store named fantazia.

Many think he is now DR Koos.

Steve

lawnmowerman · August 23, 2008 7:24AM

<< 

Went by the name of danny ducheck and ran a store named fantazia. >>

Fitting last name to say the least

mnstortuga · August 23, 2008 7:26AM

I was told "not to waste my money" in regards to PSA/DNA submission. When I googled up the COA dude, I read enough to agree........

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 7:30AM

IMO just because it has that crappy COA does not mean the auto is bad, It simply means the COA is bad.

If legit, that ruth auto has got to be worth a few grand?

FKW is a very knowledable <sp> vintage collector.

If I had it in hand I'd make my own decision based on the type of ink used.

If it was in magic marker I'd throw it away, if it is done in fountain pen I'd might
give it a shot.

surely worth the fee to see?

Steve

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 7:43AM

Steve,

It's clearly a forgery. If you are familar with Ruth's sig, there is no way a person could think that is legit. Not a bad forgery, and better than a lot of them, but Babe did not sign that. Why do you think Frangipani was the authenticator? I know why.

mnstortuga · August 23, 2008 7:45AM

The "ink" on the auto looks just like the news print only jet black. There are absolutely NO deviations in the thickness or shade in the ink. In my simple terms it looks "two dimensional".

mnstortuga · August 23, 2008 7:49AM

I dont know how to find out the printing of the book but the flip side of this torn newsprint says "Baseball Magazine for July" on the top header. It is also page 340 of this publication which would mean it's a book. I might find out the book was published after Ruth died...

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 8:15AM

Tim I disagree.

Steve

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 8:18AM

I am NOT saying it is legit I am saying it is worth the shot to see.

Saying Ruth did not sign that way means what?

The Babe looks real good, the R in Ruth had me somewhat concerned.

Depending on what it look like in hand is how I would go.

I surely would not care what COA it had.

Actually I'd ask a few guys over at net 54 before I spent any dough at PSA DNA.

Steve

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 8:23AM

<< Tim I disagree.

Steve >>

That's fine. No hard feelings. If he sends it to Spence or PSA, he will find out exactly what I am saying. A mere waste of fees. I just don't like to see people waste money on stuff that is obviously bad.

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 8:26AM

Steve,

I mainly collect autographs, and if there is one area of the hobby I know well is baseball signatures of the vintage guys like Ruth, Gehrig, Walter Johnson, Mantle, Dimaggio, ect.. I'm not into the modern guys so much, just mainly the bigger stars of the past.

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 8:27AM

He may also find out that it is real.

Slim chance I know.

But a chance non the less.

I'd see what Richard Simon says before I'd send anything to Spence.

Steve

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 8:34AM

That thing looks very similar to some of the Marino family Ruth forgeries. I would not be so sure it was not from that ring.

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 8:45AM

Here are a couple more that were deemed forgeries. They are all over the place.

Edit: to fix pics

WinPitcher · August 23, 2008 8:47AM

Tim I know they are, I'm simply saying that by the auto we can't tell.

The COA is crap but who knows why it was used?

The only way a person can find out FOR SURE is to have someone look at it in person.

Surely you agree with that?

Steve

StanTheManMusial · August 23, 2008 8:54AM

Honestly, I trust my gut and experience as much as PSA or Spence. I have been doing this long enough to feel confident in my eye. Not saying I know it all, but I will say I am very picky/stringent before I go passing opinions as to authenticity or not. All those guys do is the same thing I do, by looking at something and using their experience and eye to determine if something is legit or not.

EDIT: To add, I am not going just based on the Frangipani LOA, I am going on the sig alone. If you can get a hold of Richard Simon over on Net54, send him this way. I have no doubt he will tell you the same thing I am saying.

brianwintersfan · August 23, 2008 9:39AM

<< From my experince I would say its a fake.

HK >>

What experience?? Buying toast with an image of Michael Jordan burned into it!

DrJ · August 23, 2008 10:21AM

<< From my experince I would say its a fake.

HK >>

Gio,

How many Ruth Autos do you own?

I have zero and have never owned one, so I cannot speak to the authenticity of the above example.

TNTonPMS · August 23, 2008 10:41PM

THAT ! is NOT a Babe Ruth autograph . . .

Horrible fake in every single way

mikeschmidt · August 23, 2008 10:52PM

Frangipani had a horrible and well-deserved reputation.

Ruth Auto

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