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Advice if you're buying or selling at the National

JTBJTB Posts: 186
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I just ran across this economics experiment (conducted by John List currently at the Univ of Chicago). It was conducted in 2002-2003, but it's pretty darn interesting. He found people at a card show who were shopping for (or selling) a 1989 UD Griffey PSA 9. He then asked them to negotiate with dealers for the card. Since most dealers (obnoxiously) don't put prices on cards, he wanted to see if the prices differed according the race and sex of the customer. Here's what he found (prices are averaged over lots of transactions):

For White Males (aged 20-30)
Initial Price: 108.75
Final Price: 100.35

For White Females (aged 20-30)
Initial Price: 119.41
Final Price: 106.98

For Nonwhite Males (aged 20-30)
Initial Price: 113.50
Final Price: 104.25

For White Males (aged 60+)
Inital Price: 120.58
Final Price: 107.33

How about when they were selling instead of buying?

For White Males (aged 20-30)
Initial Offer: 38.06
Final Offer: 42.05

For White Females (aged 20-30)
Initial Offer: 26.64
Final Offer: 33.99

For Nonwhite Males (aged 20-30)
Initial Offer: 26.47
Final Offer: 33.52

For White Males (aged 60+)
Inital Offer: 29.34
Final Offer: 35.16

Advice for nondealers: Whether you're buying or selling, you should dress as a young white male.
Advice for dealers: You should buy from young nonwhite males and sell to old white guys.

Comments

  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    It's interesting.

    Results are not illogical.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • SportsCardCollectorSportsCardCollector Posts: 320 ✭✭


    << <i>Advice for dealers: You should buy from young nonwhite males and sell to old white guys. >>


    I'm dead.
    "It's not so important who starts the game but who finishes it."
    - John Wooden
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭
    Although I am sure there is some pattern behind this, the actual study is the typical type of nonsense colleges are promoting these days. It doesnt take into account the "eye appeal"/centering of the card, which could change the price, if the dealer they were selling it to did not already have one or had two dozen, if it was at the beginning of the show or the end, etc etc.

    Just a bunch of horsecarp made up to give the race baiters some information they could spin to make certain groups look like racists and other groups look like victims.
    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • bigfischebigfische Posts: 2,252 ✭✭


    << <i>Although I am sure there is some pattern behind this, the actual study is the typical type of nonsense colleges are promoting these days. It doesnt take into account the "eye appeal"/centering of the card, which could change the price, if the dealer they were selling it to did not already have one or had two dozen, if it was at the beginning of the show or the end, etc etc.

    Just a bunch of horsecarp made up to give the race baiters some information they could spin to make certain groups look like racists and other groups look like victims. >>



    not to mention the skill of the person to get the price he or she wanted.
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  • JTBJTB Posts: 186


    << <i>Although I am sure there is some pattern behind this, the actual study is the typical type of nonsense colleges are promoting these days. It doesnt take into account the "eye appeal"/centering of the card, which could change the price, if the dealer they were selling it to did not already have one or had two dozen, if it was at the beginning of the show or the end, etc etc.

    Just a bunch of horsecarp made up to give the race baiters some information they could spin to make certain groups look like racists and other groups look like victims. >>



    And your response is the typical nonsense that demonstrates why good education is so important. Those patterns emerged from hundreds of transactions. Your "alternative explanations" would only make sense if white males, for example, were more likely to look for Griffeys with less eye appeal (and therefore a lower price) than were those in the other groups. This makes no sense. The same is true for your other "explanations." In the full article List also addresses several other legitimate alternative explanations that you're too dense to even imagine. You're doing a great job of confusing "random error" and "systematic error". I cover these in Research Methods 101. You fail.

    As for negotiation skill, that could explain the final offer/price, but not the initial offer/price.

    Sorry for the hostility, but good educators hate ignorance.

    JT
  • BrickBrick Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I usually do not get involved in these discussions, but since I am a member of the group most discriminated against I will offer a couple thoughts. The reason many dealers do not price their cards obviously is they "size up" the customer and set a price they feel they can get. I would think young white males would be considered normal card collectors with knowledge of pricing as they purchase many cards. Older white males may be thought to have more disposable income and able to pay more. Young women are usually not collectors and may be thought to be buying a gift for a collector and so the higher asking price. Although there are some I do not see many non-whites at card shows and dealers may feel they are novices and may pay a premium (especially for a card of an African American star such as Griffey or Tiger Woods). And sadly it seems the dealers are correct as those with highest asking price paid the most, second highest asking price paid second highest amount and so on down the line. I did notice that young white males received the smallest discount from original asking price which tells me that is because either there was less mark-up to begin with or they are not as good negotiators as the other groups. Actually it may be that this study proves older white males are the best negotiators followed by young females, then young non whites and finally young white males cannot negotiate worth a darn. Two questions I have. Don't people between 30-60 buy cards? Did the individuals involved in this study have preconceived ideas and set out to get results they already believed? They could easily do this by having the groups act as I have described each group. By the way I hate it when cards are not priced. I do not like to be "sized up" and taken advantage of.
    Collecting 1960 Topps Baseball in PSA 8
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    Ralph

  • JTBJTB Posts: 186


    << <i>Don't people between 30-60 buy cards? Did the individuals involved in this study have preconceived ideas and set out to get results they already believed? They could easily do this by having the groups act as I have described each group. By the way I hate it when cards are not priced. I do not like to be "sized up" and taken advantage of. >>



    Question 1: Yes
    Question 2: That's a very good question and that's why this study was much better than other similar ones. The people didn't know what the study was really about. List just asked them to go out and get the best deal they could. I think they were offered prizes for getting the best deal to convince them that it was only an economics experiment about getting the best deal.
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