Okay, let's settle this once and for all / VSG

EagleEyeKid · July 11, 2008 4:31PM

Regarding a recent thread, which I didn't see until a friend PM'ed me and linked it;
I think it's kind of funny several members had a tiffy fit about it. So let's end this right now.
I am the grader for Vanguard (VSG). I told several board members who I trust several
months ago that I was getting into a new hobby. I was given an opportunity to look
and grade a bunch of modern cards which I feel I'm very good at.
This was a way to make some extra money and have fun at something I love to do.
I will say that this is NOT my product. I don't sit in my basement and slab cards. I'm involved
with this product. The slabbing/sealing, and flip production are done somewhere else....Florida,
and I'm in California.

You can bash, make fun, or whatever you choose about the product...it doesn't bother me.
I believe it's a very professional and attractive product. I scan the product after it's done in
case someone wants the jpg which I can host for their auctions. So that's the bottom line.
The product may be around for a month, a year, or crash and burn in a month....who knows.
Does anyone really care? Probably not.

bobbybakeriv · July 11, 2008 4:38PM

I don't have a problem with it. It is a free market and you have every right to do it. It's not like you are coming on here and promoting it or bashing PSA. No big deal Brian. I hope you are successful in your endeavor. Bobby

nam812 · July 11, 2008 10:41PM

<< Regarding a recent thread, which I didn't see until a friend PM'ed me and linked it;
I think it's kind of funny several members had a tiffy fit about it. So let's end this right now.
I am the grader for Vanguard (VSG). I told several board members who I trust several
months ago that I was getting into a new hobby. I was given an opportunity to look
and grade a bunch of modern cards which I feel I'm very good at.
This was a way to make some extra money and have fun at something I love to do.
I will say that this is NOT my product. I don't sit in my basement and slab cards. I'm involved
with this product. The slabbing/sealing, and flip production are done somewhere else....Florida,
and I'm in California.

You can bash, make fun, or whatever you choose about the product...it doesn't bother me.
I believe it's a very professional and attractive product. I scan the product after it's done in
case someone wants the jpg which I can host for their auctions. So that's the bottom line.
The product may be around for a month, a year, or crash and burn in a month....who knows.
Does anyone really care? Probably not. >>

Good luck with that Bryan. It sounds very interesting, and I'm sure its a lot of fun. Who here hasn't dreamed of grading cards all day? I sure have, but then when the novelty wore off, and it felt like any other job, I would want out.

The only part that is confusing to me is that after the cards have been slabbed in Florida why do they ship them all the way back to you in California just so you can scan them? That seems like a very big expense for a new company.

DrJ · July 11, 2008 10:58PM

The biggest issue I see is that every VSG card for sale on eBay is graded out at a Gem Mint 10. In my opinion this is a total scam to make a quick buck on trimmed cards or cards which would otherwise not rate a 10.

Where are all of the VSG 6,7,8, and 9's?

EagleEyeKid,

I suggest you distance yourself from this scam as soon as possible as it will (and may already have) ruined your reputation.

CDsNuts · July 11, 2008 11:00PM

The big VSG submitters always get the good grades.

PoppaJ · July 11, 2008 11:01PM

<< 

<< Regarding a recent thread, which I didn't see until a friend PM'ed me and linked it;
I think it's kind of funny several members had a tiffy fit about it. So let's end this right now.
I am the grader for Vanguard (VSG). I told several board members who I trust several
months ago that I was getting into a new hobby. I was given an opportunity to look
and grade a bunch of modern cards which I feel I'm very good at.
This was a way to make some extra money and have fun at something I love to do.
I will say that this is NOT my product. I don't sit in my basement and slab cards. I'm involved
with this product. The slabbing/sealing, and flip production are done somewhere else....Florida,
and I'm in California.

You can bash, make fun, or whatever you choose about the product...it doesn't bother me.
I believe it's a very professional and attractive product. I scan the product after it's done in
case someone wants the jpg which I can host for their auctions. So that's the bottom line.
The product may be around for a month, a year, or crash and burn in a month....who knows.
Does anyone really care? Probably not. >>

Good luck with that Bryan. It sounds very interesting, and I'm sure its a lot of fun. Who here hasn't dreamed of grading cards all day? I sure have, but then when the novelty wore off, and it felt like any other job, I would want out.

The only part that is confusing to me is that after the cards have been slabbed in Florida why do they ship them all the way back to you in California just so you can scan them? That seems like a very big expense for a new company. >>

Good point Nick .... I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it

fur72 · July 11, 2008 11:08PM

<< Where are all of the VSG 6,7,8, and 9's? >>

I guess I really dont think this is a big deal. As a collector I know a VSG or any other smaller grading company is not as reputiable as the big boys. I just found it strange all the cars on ebay were VSG 10 all being sold from the same seller. Its an open market and buyers of VSG cards should understand what they are getting. I can call anything a FUR 10, cap and seal it.

CDsNuts · July 11, 2008 11:09PM

Let me step in and vouch for the OP. For those that don't know EagleEye, he deals in mostly modern hockey and historically has had around a 90% success rate for Gem Mint cards whether he's submitting to PSA, BGS or SGC.

I wouldn't be shocked if the arrangement was that the VSG owner sends a bunch of modern hockey to EagleEye who picks out all the 10s and sends em back to be slabbed. As far as the grading company, it's probably only financially viable for him to slab the 10s at this point and everything else is a waste of plastic and time. The problem with this is it makes the company look illegitimate because only 10s are in slabs. Maybe he's only slabbing his own cards and doesn't care if others submit ever.

Ironmanfan · July 11, 2008 11:09PM

I thought VSG was emulating GEM more than they were PSA

DrJ · July 11, 2008 11:18PM

<< Let me step in and vouch for the OP. For those that don't know EagleEye, he deals in mostly modern hockey and historically has had around a 90% success rate for Gem Mint cards whether he's submitting to PSA, BGS or SGC.

I wouldn't be shocked if the arrangement was that the VSG owner sends a bunch of modern hockey to EagleEye who picks out all the 10s and sends em back to be slabbed. As far as the grading company, it's probably only financially viable for him to slab the 10s at this point and everything else is a waste of plastic and time. The problem with this is it makes the company look illegitimate because only 10s are in slabs. Maybe he's only slabbing his own cards and doesn't care if others submit ever. >>

That is a good point, but where is VSG's website, where are their grading standards, what is their submission process.

If the only way for cards to get slabbed is for EagleEyeKid to grade cards sent in by his "boy" and then he grades them all 10's, it takes this new service even further from being legit.

lawnmowerman · July 11, 2008 11:25PM

<< As far as the grading company, it's probably only financially viable for him to slab the 10s at this point and everything else is a waste of plastic and time >>

Exactly

Bryan is a very good grader and an honest dude. Bryan and I have done submissions to psa together and I have seen his cards first hand. I also saw the product before it was listed on ebay. It's pretty good if you ask me.

I can see this whole thing being blown out of proportion.

bman90278 · July 12, 2008 12:09AM

This is a very interesting post. Although I don't have any first hand experiences with EagleEyeKid / Bryan, I believe there is always room for another company in grading and it's totally realistic and possible VSG will have stringent guidelines like the PSA, but it does take time for new companies to establish themselves. Also very interesting to see the comments made by our members here.

Also, when I was in the automotive racing industry during the 90's, I personally had several small customers (really just automotive hobyists) who worked out of their homes and made it big time within a few years. One of them had set the standard in late model Ford Racing with their racing organization and also has a very well known racing publication & internet tv for all drag racing venues as well as one of the highest viewed automotive websites on the net. A few others made it big enough that they were bought out by very large companies which are very successful on the NASDAQ. Although my experiences mentioned are in the automotive racing industry, I was just saying anything is possible with the right dedication, knowlege, and financial backing companies can be success against large corporations or successful companies.

So remember, just because someone has a new company doesn't mean much. We aren't forced to buy VSG cards and maybe in time some buyers of VSG Cards will get them reslabed in similiar graded PSA slabs. Only time will tell.

Regards,
Brian

DrJ · July 12, 2008 12:17AM

<< This is a very interesting post. Although I don't have any first hand experiences with EagleEyeKid / Bryan, I believe there is always room for another company in grading and it's totally realistic and possible VSG will have stringent guidelines like the PSA, but it does take time for new companies to establish themselves. Also very interesting to see the comments made by our members here.

Also, when I was in the automotive racing industry during the 90's, I personally had several small customers (really just automotive hobyists) who worked out of their homes and made it big time within a few years. One of them had set the standard in late model Ford Racing with their racing organization and also has a very well known racing publication & internet tv for all drag racing venues as well as one of the highest viewed automotive websites on the net. A few others made it big enough that they were bought out by very large companies which are very successful on the NASDAQ. Although my experiences mentioned are in the automotive racing industry, I was just saying anything is possible with the right dedication, knowlege, and financial backing companies can be success against large corporations or successful companies.

So remember, just because someone has a new company doesn't mean much. We aren't forced to buy VSG cards and maybe in time some buyers of VSG Cards will get them reslabed in similiar graded PSA slabs. Only time will tell.

Regards,
Brian >>

Very good points. I think the key to any start-up business is an injection of legitamacy from the get go. For a card grading company, basic necessities are posted grading standards, submission instructions, and preferably a website (which anyone can put up for a few bucks these days). When a compnay starts without the basic tools required to perform a legitamate business, they will be questioned either rightly or wrongly and potentially have long term negative effects on their reputation.

For a perfect example, look at GAI and their recent fiasco last year. They had the tools in place, had financial problems apparently and appear to have sunk their business in a period of a month.

SoFLPhillyFan · July 12, 2008 12:22AM

<< That is a good point, but where is VSG's website, where are their grading standards, what is their submission process. >>

Yeah dammit, and we want a message board too where we can bash your grading standards and submission process!

Best of luck in the new venture. Seriously.

44Magnum · July 12, 2008 12:45AM

<< For a card grading company, basic necessities are posted grading standards, submission instructions, and preferably a website (which anyone can put up for a few bucks these days). When a compnay starts without the basic tools required to perform a legitamate business, they will be questioned either rightly or wrongly and potentially have long term negative effects on their reputation. >>

I totally agree with Justin on this one and just have some questions.
How does a collector go about submitting cards to VSG for grading?
I've seen people slam josefina for selling their own graded cards, but isn't this the same thing?
I searched eBay by completed auctions and current auctions for VSG graded cards. There are 20 total and every one is a hockey card and every one is graded a 10. Does VSG only grade hockey cards and is every card automatically a 10?

<< The only part that is confusing to me is that after the cards have been slabbed in Florida why do they ship them all the way back to you in California just so you can scan them? That seems like a very big expense for a new company. >>

Yes, please clear that up...

I have no problems with other grading companies and feel there is always room for another LEGITIMATE grading company in this hobby. However, when I can't find any information at all on this company, it tells me that it is not legit! I have a feeling they are only grading their own cards and everything is graded a 10. Who here can honestly say they would submit cards to a company they knew nothing about and could not find any public information on?

bman90278 · July 12, 2008 12:54AM

<< Very good points. I think the key to any start-up business is an injection of legitamacy from the get go. For a card grading company, basic necessities are posted grading standards, submission instructions, and preferably a website (which anyone can put up for a few bucks these days). When a compnay starts without the basic tools required to perform a legitamate business, they will be questioned either rightly or wrongly and potentially have long term negative effects on their reputation. >>

You hit the nail on the head Justin. I would certainly look for websites any time I see something new I don't know about.

Also, In my previous post I mentioned one of my small customers in the automotive industry who made it successful....well I feel he made it big really quick because of his great web site and his great message boards, but he also got good ink in magazine articles, sponsored race cars, etc......he promoted and promoted his business. No matter how good your company is, it's all about P.R. !

bman90278 · July 12, 2008 12:56AM

<< I have no problems with other grading companies and feel there is always room for another LEGITIMATE grading company in this hobby. However, when I can't find any information at all on this company, it tells me that it is not legit! I have a feeling they are only grading their own cards and everything is graded a 10. Who here can honestly say they would submit cards to a company they knew nothing about and could not find any public information on? >>

I don't feel it's fair to say it is not legit, but I agree he needs to do what you mentioned.

psafan · July 12, 2008 3:36AM

Brian/Eagle Eye Kid, answer 1 question. have you ever trimmed a card?

EagleEyeKid · July 12, 2008 4:33AM

Brian/Eagle Eye Kid, answer 1 question. have you ever trimmed a card?

I have tried; was not successful and threw it in the trash. I think 90% of collectors
have tried at one point or another, and I would of been lying if I said I never tried it.

Okay, I just woke up and I'll try to answer some of your questions.

Right now, there are some tiny glitches that needs to be straightened out, but I think
I'll get through them. I had an idea, and someone on the eastcoast collaborated with me.
Whether it's a crazy idea or not, only time will tell. This is the temporary website that we
put together http://vanguardsportsgrading.iwarp.com

We're still trying to figure out a much smoother way to work out from grading to slabbing.
I take my share ($) after grading and send the difference to the slabber along with the cards.
Right now, this is done more for fun than a business. If it works out for the best, then great.
If not; it's no big deal....life goes on.
I've had several submissions that only stated that they wanted the minimum grade of a 10.....
That's not a problem. So far, I've graded some 8s and 9s....not a whole lot. Some just wanted
to get a taste or a sample. Again, these are all modern cards, so there should be nothing lower
than an 8 (my perspective). I'm not saying that the possibility of a grade lower than an 8 is impossible,
but why submit something that is lower than an 8. Heck, why submit anything lower than a 9?

My photobucket is obviously my name on here. I'm using that to host pictures. My partner has my login
info and will scan cards onto that site. So far, we've slabbed a little over 1000 cards. You may see them
on ebay.....or some other auction site, I don't know.

If any board members want to see the product in hand, send me 1 or 2 cards, and I'll grade it.
I'll discount on the grading fee. PM me.

44Magnum · July 12, 2008 5:26AM

Thanks for answering the questions. I appreciate your honest answers. Good luck with your venture!

WinPitcher · July 12, 2008 5:31AM

Good Luck Bryon.

Steve

fur72 · July 12, 2008 5:50AM

Wow this thread really took off. I can sum this one up with a quote from one of my favorite comedy's.

"Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it "guaranteed", i will. I got spare time."

pandrews · July 12, 2008 5:55AM

Bryon has one of the best grading eyes i know of..

ROCKDJRW · July 12, 2008 8:18AM

I like the idea of a respected board member offering quick effective grading opinions. I have many cards of lower value that I would like to have holdered for display purposes and protection. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a card from Bryan that he describes as Gem Mint so I don't see a problem with him slabbing it as such. BTW PM sent!

Edited due to error listed below

Elemenopeo · July 12, 2008 9:00AM

I'd just like to point out that the OP spells his name Bryan with an A, not with an O. Strange as it may be.

Sincerely,

Bryon

pandrews · July 12, 2008 9:27AM

<< I'd just like to point out that the OP spells his name Bryan with an A, not with an O. Strange as it may be.

Sincerely,

Bryon >>

well i was just copying winpitcher.. i knew there was a BryOn around here somewhere.

lawnmowerman · July 12, 2008 9:32AM

<< Bryon has one of the best grading eyes i know of.. >>

I concur

BobaFett72 · July 12, 2008 9:36AM

I dont doubt he has tremendous grading skills, but the point that the grading is done across the country, the slabbing is done somewhere else, the website is a freebee 10 minute cut and paste job and all the cards are graded MINT 10 isnt inspiring. I love small business and entreprenuership but if your gonna do something, do it right without the whiff of impropriety that ventures like this inevitably produce.

WinPitcher · July 12, 2008 12:40PM

Nobody is being forced to buy or slab any cards with this company.

Why all the negativity?

Steve

WinPitcher · July 12, 2008 12:40PM

Yeah after I posted above I saw that I spelled his name wrong.

I didn't want to edit it though.

Steve

bobbybakeriv · July 12, 2008 12:41PM

<< Nobody is being forced to buy or slab any cards with this company.

Why all the negativity?

Steve >>

Exactly.

DrJ · July 12, 2008 1:11PM

No need for negativity, but people here bash GAI and BVG to the hills and they provide a far far far superior experience and service.

He has a ton of work to do if he desires legitamcy in grading. This venture is not starting out well, but maybe he will right the ship in the future.

Best of luck and hopefully you straighten out real quick.

J

uniship · July 12, 2008 1:23PM

lol

psafan · July 12, 2008 4:43PM

how much for a 100 card submission? and how much to have you trim all 100 for me?

EagleEyeKid · July 12, 2008 4:50PM

psafan, answer this 1 question for me. Why is it that you no longer use the "DaBigHurt" on here?
Elaborate on why you got NARU'ed and back up the lies that you spewed.

WinPitcher · July 12, 2008 9:55PM

We bash GAI and rightfully so.

Steve

KbKards · July 12, 2008 11:25PM

The OP needs to budget some money for real advertising and stop using PSA's board to promote the new grading company he works for. Using the board just like eBay spammers do, trying to cleverly pose their advertisement in the form of a stupid observation or question. This is a lot worse because he's not trying to get you to bid on his cards, he's using the PSA board to try to get you to use his new grading service. While he tries to distance himself by saying "I will say that this is NOT my product", if you're the grader then it is your product. I find it hard to believe that PSA would allow the principals of other grading companies to come on their boards and pimp their product.

HeritageAddict · July 13, 2008 12:00AM

KB, Bryan did not start a thread promoting his Grading service, he started this thread in response to another thread questioning said grading service. I think when he offered to give a grading discount to anybody here it was simply his way of saying "If you have doubts send me something to grade and then draw your own conclusions." I really don't see the issue, every company has to start somewhere and not every start up will have the budget to jump right in with major advertising, fancy website, etc.,

metalmike · July 13, 2008 7:58AM

Plus you are new here.Eagleeye is not and if trusted dudes like LMM have good things to say that's good enuff for me.

lawnmowerman · July 13, 2008 8:18AM

<< Plus you are new here.Eagleeye is not and if trusted dudes like LMM have good things to say that's good enuff for me.

Appreciate that Mike! You're a good dude as well.

WinPitcher · July 13, 2008 9:18AM

Is KB really new here?

I remember the day he started and he jumped right in w/o missing a beat.

Steve

fandango · July 13, 2008 11:17AM

<< Is KB really new here?

I remember the day he started and he jumped right in w/o missing a beat.

Steve >>

not everyone is who the seem.....

nightcrawler · July 14, 2008 12:07AM

Good luck on this venture Bryan, I hope everything works out well.

I am so curious about this, I just might have crack out a BVG and send it to you to see how it crosses over, heh heh.

wolfbear · July 14, 2008 12:24AM

Why stop at 10?

Many would pay a premium for a card graded an 11 ...

billwaltonsbeard · July 14, 2008 12:47AM

<< Why stop at 10?

Many would pay a premium for a card graded an 11 ... >>

I know this guy would.

gumbyfan · July 14, 2008 12:51AM

<< 

<< Why stop at 10?

Many would pay a premium for a card graded an 11 ... >>

I know this guy would.

>>

I can see it now, STD Grading (Spinal Tap Determinations). Why would you settle for a 10, when our cards go to 11?

Okay, let's settle this once and for all / VSG

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