OMG EBAY # 370063918385

Mickey71 · July 5, 2008 9:20AM

Can someone post a link. Needless to say, this 57 Koufax will not be sent in for review to get the 8.5. A minimum of 3 PSA graders looked at this card and determined it was an 8. I do believe in errors, but not being honest sometimes bothers me. This card was graded quickly by 1 grader who missed the bottom left corner- period.
Mickey71

lawnmowerman · July 5, 2008 9:21AM

link

AragornTheBold · July 5, 2008 9:23AM

someone had a hot date they were late for that night

otwcards · July 5, 2008 9:28AM

Or the card could be making contact with the holder or be shadowing a little wear.

Granted, it does not appear to be an, but then again, you can always go by images.

WinPitcher · July 5, 2008 10:37AM

Geez is this the best you can find Mickey?

The card has great centering, three mint corners (which is what an 8 needs)

I just don't see the problem.

Maybe someone else can point it out?

Steve

mickeymantle24 · July 5, 2008 10:42AM

I do not see much of a problem either, the lower left coner does have a small ding, but its not a Gem Ment 10 so something has to be wrong with it!

lawnmowerman · July 5, 2008 10:46AM

I agree with Steve. When I first posted the link for you, I didn't get the meaning of the thread either.

The card looks great and is accurately graded.

Mickey71 · July 5, 2008 12:01PM

Steve,
You're kidding right? 3 mint corners. Which ones are mint? Although, if a bunch of you accept this as an 8 it's okay I guess. I just know that my expectations of an 8 are much higher than the card discussed in this thread. Plus, it's 4th of July weekend and maybe a firecracker hit part of the lower left corner.
Mickey71

milbroco · July 5, 2008 12:01PM

I agree that the card should have been lower than an 8. The bottom left corner has more than a "ding", it is more like a worn corner, layered and flattened. I have had cards graded 8's and lower that have better corners all around.........I know, we all have but here is one.....

Leiascards · July 5, 2008 12:04PM

Both bottom corners have wear, but it was submitted on a good day and got an 8 instead of a 7 or 7.5. Grading is subjective..

on that payton the corers are not the problem its the edge about mid way down the right side.

WinPitcher · July 5, 2008 12:40PM

First of all we are looking at a scan that is 4x the size of the card.

Of course it is going to look worse then it is.

Your sarcasm about 3 graders (not sure where you heard that) Hint, that is only used when 2 graders can't agree.

And I'm not sure it is on every card like you seem to think,

Also, the only corner that has a problem (to me anyway) is the bottom left so from there
you should be able to deduct your answer.

Lastly, the card is not a dog like you tried to claim and I bet anything if it was yours you would be
acting like it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Want to show us PSA dogs? No problem, just make sure that they are first.

That card is decent. Is it hi end for the grade? I doubt it, it surely does not have the problems you make it out to have either.

Steve

Estil · July 5, 2008 12:50PM

Personally I think the corners are too soft for an 8. But that's just me.

Mickey71 · July 5, 2008 1:41PM

Steve,
If I owned the card I would not think it was the best thing since sliced bread. I would honestly sell the card on ebay. I would scan the card and not hype it for fear of the buyer being upset. I am more of a collector than a seller so I pick and chose wisely so I don't generally have any 8's that look like the Koufax. I'm just stating that I would feel incredibly lucky submitting that card and receiving an 8. Also, PSA has stated before that a minimum of 3 people look at the card. Do they in fact do this- I really don't know.
Mickey71

Leiascards · July 5, 2008 1:43PM

I have always seen its 2 graders then a third if their opinions differ drastically. Its the grader and a "supervisor" then if necessary the third. I am betting 9 out of 10 cards don't even get the second look, thats usually how things like that work.

BobaFett72 · July 5, 2008 1:46PM

i agree that's a gift 8 for sure.

7 would be more appropriate, or 7.5. heck on a bad day it might get a 6.5.

Leiascards · July 5, 2008 1:47PM

It is slightly overgraded, but like Steve said its not a dog it just went in on a good day., or had a 20 attached to it. LOL

HighChopper · July 5, 2008 2:24PM

Easily a PSA 3.7.

What are you guys talking about?

cardbender · July 5, 2008 11:19PM

That's a sweet Payton rookie, that clearly looks undergraded.

Weak Koufax (although nice photo) looks over graded.

Happens every day. They're only human.

WinPitcher · July 6, 2008 12:33AM

IMO the outstanding centering and overall eye appeal allowed the Koufax to slip into an 8 holder.

My problem was the OP's statement about dishonesty and 3 grader comment.

That seems to have been lost through all the hoopla.

I agree it is not a hi end example.

Steve

WinPitcher · July 6, 2008 12:43AM

Steve,
If I owned the card I would not think it was the best thing since sliced bread. I would honestly sell the card on ebay. I would scan the card and not hype it for fear of the buyer being upset. I am more of a collector than a seller so I pick and chose wisely so I don't generally have any 8's that look like the Koufax. I'm just stating that I would feel incredibly lucky submitting that card and receiving an 8. Also, PSA has stated before that a minimum of 3 people look at the card. Do they in fact do this- I really don't know.

The ebay seller gave a large scan so he is doing exactly what you claim you would do. (sell it honestly)
He also did not hype it either. No mention of it getting an 8.5

I have no problem with that card. I sure as heck (like you) do not have it in hand.

Many here claim it should be a 7.5, I have no idea of the value of this card from 7 to 8
but surely it is not the dog you tried to make it out to be.

PSA uses 3 graders ONLY when 2 graders do not agree with a grade. So NO they never said
that a MINIMUM of 3 look at every card. That is the way I read it anyway.

Sometimes people think if they say something over and over it becomes fact.

So, like you I'll repeat myself once again, PSA never said a minimum of 3 graders look at every card.

Steve

Edited to add: The market has spoken as the card went unsold. (At he price the seller wanted that is)

julen23 · July 6, 2008 1:16AM

if i'm selling any cards that fall into the "psa twilight zone" grading area,

i only hope my auctions end (w/ premiums) like yesterday.

good looking mickey.

j

billwaltonsbeard · July 6, 2008 8:23AM

Both bottom corners on that Koufax look pretty shabby. This is an example of what I was referring to in an earlier post. I think graders are easier on vintage cards. If a 2001 Topps Traded Albert Pujols RC was submitted with corners like that, it would get a 6. Anyone think I'm wrong?

Mickey71 · July 6, 2008 2:01PM

When I referred to the notion of not being honest, I was referring to the protocal of grading the card. I was in no way referring to the seller who provided an excellent scan of the card. Actually , I would like to scan my cards like that-it was excellent. Dishonest may have been the wrong wording so for that I was wrong. I was clearly only talking about the grade of the card and the fact that I believe it is overgraded. There are supposed to be 3 people look at the card. In my opinion the card is not an 8. A reviewer or head grader can also look at the card. The graders anonamously enter the grade they believe the card to be. They put it in the computer and pass it to the next grader who then grades the card. In the event that trhis becomes like 6, 7, & 8 grades a head grader can break the tie so to speak. This has been said by Joe and is said by every PSA dealer I know. Just to add, it's PSA's show so they can use as many graders as they feel necessary at the time. When they get smothered with subs I would expect grading to be slower and less consistant. I know Andy Madec fairly well and we've discussed the grading process many times with regards to multiple graders looking at cards. Andy at one time was a PSA grader. I'm sure Andy would be okay with me saying this. Just to add, "Andy is one of the most decent and respectful gentleman around."
Mickey71

jdmi32 · July 6, 2008 2:21PM

The card is definitely not a candidate for a bump, but I see nothing outrageous about the 8 it received. A well-centered 57 Koufax is hard to find, and maybe the centering on this card was enough to overcome the soft corners. I do think most days this card would have gotten a 7 though.

65nova · July 6, 2008 2:22PM

I believe this card belongs to a board member here

StanTheManMusial · July 6, 2008 5:21PM

To me, the card does look more like a 6.5. A PSA 7 at best, if the submitter was lucky. I know I have some 6's graded before the half point system, and they look better than that Koufax.

WinPitcher · July 6, 2008 9:14PM

There are supposed to be 3 people look at the card.

You keep saying that and that is WRONG.

Steve

nam812 · July 6, 2008 10:53PM

<< <i>There are supposed to be 3 people look at the card.

You keep saying that and that is WRONG.

Steve >>

If he says it 2 more times BeetleJuice will appear.

RonBurgundy · July 6, 2008 11:30PM

I looked at this card the other day. In my opinion, having had experience with PSA grading 57's, the card is not overgraded. No way it ever gets a bump, but if a '57 is perfectly centered, no print, and has 3 solid corners, it's going to go 8. That's what happened here.

PSA's grading with late 50's issues (57-59) varies widely. If you'll recall, I punted Baxter over the bridge (again) when some of my 58's were 6's several months ago. Most graded 7 or 8 on resubmission.

Ron

WinPitcher · July 6, 2008 11:37PM

but if a '57 is perfectly centered, no print, and has 3 solid corners,

Bingo we have a winner. Ding ding ding!

Is the card hi end? Nope, is it the dog some make it out to be? Nope again.

Cards with white borders I need to see in hand, as the amount of wear (seen) can vary from scan to scan.
All I can really tell with these cards is centering which that card has plenty of!

Would I pay what the owner was asking for this card? Nope

Would I like that card in my collection? Yup

If 3 graders looked at it then 2 of them must feel this way.

Steve

OMG EBAY # 370063918385

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