Pete Rose lashes out at Selig
metalmike
Posts: 2,152 ✭✭
Is there another baseball saga in our lifetime as compelling as the Shakespearean Pete Rose story? One suspects that history may take a broader view of the tale than we do, immersed as we are in the day-to-day, or decade-to-decade retelling.
But Rose himself, personification of so many starkly American virtues and often excesses, seems to have a kind of innate understanding that there are contradictions on the horizon (or already here) that will almost certainly present his ongoing dilemma in a better light than currently is the case.
To my recollection, nobody in this country has been punished to a comparable degree for essentially telling America one big, fat lie. As the Watergate gang can attest, it’s the cover-up that will ultimately do you in.
Major League Baseball’s beef with Pete is ostensibly that he bet on baseball, but I would contend that officialdom’s real agitation resulted from Rose’s denying that he bet on baseball. Certainly his difficulty over the past two decades as baseball’s resident pariah/back-door ambassador stems from the fans’ collective dismay not that he bet on baseball – for most knowledgeable adults understood that was essentially a given – but that he looked the camera in the eye and denied it for so long.
All of this ponderous introduction is designed to once again surrender the podium to Pete, who was signing autographs at the recent SportsFest Show in suburban Chicago. At a time when the sports page headlines have been laden with genuinely ominous accounts of steroid allegations that clearly threaten the vaunted integrity of the game, the man who was saddled with that charge (the integrity question, not steroids) almost 20 years ago has been oddly quiet. No more.
“All I can tell you about my situation, and what I did was very wrong and I wish I hadn’t done it, but you can’t change history,” Rose said in an interview at the Renaissance Schaumburg Hotel and Convention Center. “I didn’t do anything to change the outcome of the game. I bet on my own team to win every night.
“It had nothing to do with the integrity of the game. It didn’t make the score different or alter the outcome of the game. That’s what steroids do; they make guys stronger and they hit more home runs. And I don’t understand why Bud Selig doesn’t know that.”
Asked why there seems to be hardly a blip from MLB about him, Pete said, “It’s because they don’t need me. When they need me they come out of the woodwork. When I made the All-Century Celebration, Master Card paid them $50 million and said if he makes the team, he’s got to be there. Then when I made the Most Memorable Moments in San Francisco, it was another $50 million and I was there. Now, when I was asked if I could go to the last event at Riverfront Stadium, I couldn’t go.
“I am going to the game Tuesday (June 10), and someone wanted to interview me here today to put it on the Fan-O-Gram at the ballpark on Joe Nuxhall Night and MLB wouldn’t OK it, because they didn’t make any money.”
Pete’s agent, Warren Greene, was helping him with the autograph signing. “You’re dead,” Greene told Rose, “but they love to resurrect you from the dead when they need you. It’s an amazing thing.”
“What’s going to happen is, Bud Selig is going to get all this ink and notoriety for cleaning up steroids, and the last time I checked, steroids happened when he was commissioner. And the press is going to say he’s the one that cleaned up steroids in baseball, and no one will ever say that he’s the one that started steroids in baseball. It happened on his watch.
“I hope he cleans it up. I wonder what Babe Ruth thinks sitting up there watching this. I wonder what Hank Aaron really thinks about losing his home run record.”
As I noted at the top of this column, Rose seems to have a well-honed instinct that the steroid discussion should provide fans with yet another opportunity to contrast Rose’s sins – betting on baseball and then subsequently denying it for way too long – with the debate about the legitimacy of MLB’s sacred statistical underpinning.
“I like Barry Bonds. I’m not saying anything about Barry Bonds; I think he’s one of the top-five players to ever play the game,” Rose insisted, but noted that when Bonds was chasing Aaron’s record last year, the Commissioner wouldn’t be there, “because he’s a Hank Aaron fan. Aaron broke the record legitimately.”
All of which sounds like a pretty serious indictment of what has taken place on the field, ironically, over almost the identical two-decade span that Rose was relegated to MLB’s doghouse. “It’s going to be interesting to see. We got the first taste of it last year, because I believe it was the first year someone connected with the steroid question was on the ballot, and Mark McGwire got 23 percent. Are the writers going to forgive Barry Bonds in the next five years?
“I don’t know. Are the writers going to forgive Roger Clemens? Wouldn’t it be interesting if Clemens and Bonds would be on the same ballot?”
The allusion to Bonds and Clemens being on the same ballot prompted a query to Rose about whether he thought Bonds would get another chance to play this year. “When you’re 43-44 years old, you need a little bit of spring training, you can’t just expect to rehab for a week and jump in there and deliver,” said the guy who most fans once felt could do just that, had it been required.
“Barry’s value went down because he broke the records and he can’t play defense anymore. Who’s going to pay him what he commands? Bonds is not going to go somewhere and play for $5-$6 million when he’s used to getting $15-$20 million. You and I would, though,” Pete added with a laugh, and I was delighted that he included me in the hypothetical. Clearly he’s never seen me swing at a fastball after the catcher has thrown it back to the mound, or admired my left leg wobble against a curveball.
Anyway, Rose, seemingly the victim of a bit of blackballing himself, stopped short of attributing Bonds’ current dilemma to any collusion on the part of MLB owners (an allegation currently under investigation by the players association).
“I don’t know anything about collusion,” Rose said without a hint of irony in his voice. “I just think the investment was too much for what you’re going to get if Bonds can’t play five days a week. Still, I think if you have the home run king playing baseball, it’s better for the game. Think of all the little kids who went to see Babe Ruth play because he was the home run king.
“And we don’t know if Bonds can DH; that’s a different animal. Some guys can DH, and some guys can’t, plus Barry’s got bad legs. You almost think that if he started playing now, he’d get hurt and start missing games.”
And Rose also addressed the peculiar nature of Bonds’ star power, which is seemingly so geographically limited. “Barry is popular in the Bay Area, but people in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and Montreal didn’t care last year whether he got the home run record.”
For Rose, it’s hardly a surprise that a ball club would turn its back on a player who had produced at the level Bonds has. “The owner said, ‘You did a really good job of filling my house up for 5-6 years; now we’re done with you. Get outta here.”
Noting the almost deafening silence surrounding his case over the last several years as MLB dealt with more damaging problems, most notably the steroid question, I reminded Pete that about 10 years ago or so he had told me in an interview that he was considering filing a lawsuit.
“We always talk about it,” Rose said. I was struck back then by the almost cosmic irony of Rose suing the game he so dearly loves, kinda like Dorothy bringing the Tin Man in front of a magistrate because he botched the directions from MapQuest.
The nagging question: the HOF
“I’m not worried about the Hall of Fame,” he added. “If I ever make the Hall of Fame, I’d be the happiest guy in the world, but I don’t want you to think I go to bed every night and pray I will go into the Hall of Fame.
“I know what kind of player I was, and my fans know what kind of player I was,” Rose continued, striking a note that has been a mainstay for virtually the whole ordeal. “If you ask me, I think the Hall of Fame is a joke if I’m not in it, because I’ve got all those records. I played hard and I didn’t cheat the people. I gave people their moneys’ worth.”
While such lamentations about modern players seeming not to play as “hard” as earlier generations are commonplace among old-timers, they gain additional credibility when coming from Rose, because nobody ever made that charge about him.
“Everybody singles me out because of the way I played, but to be honest with you, every baseball player should play the way I played. Don’t give me credit just because I busted my ass and played the game the way it should be played.
“If I make the Hall of Fame, I make it, but the Hall of Fame is more for your family and your fans. I would like to make the Hall of Fame for my fans.”
Anybody who knows anything about Rose presumably understands the defensiveness that creeps into his voice when he talks about his lifetime ban.
“But, I’m not worried about it. My life’s not going to change if I make the Hall of Fame tomorrow. I’ll just be another member of 170 guys in a club,” he added, with more presumably unintended irony. At the time Commissioner Bart Giamatti placed Rose on the “Permanently Ineligible” list, there were barely more than 200 members of the Hall. After Rose’s nearly two decades on the outside peering in, the current count is 278.
“It would be gratifying, but I would rather be a manager in the game, because in that way I can contribute to the game of baseball and help the game of baseball,” Rose continued.
“I’m the best ambassador baseball has today. I am talking to thousands of fans 15 days a month, and I am talking about baseball. And I defend the game. I don’t know of anybody else on the job like that.”
Truly ‘Sorry that he bet on baseball’
“I wish I’d never made a bet in my life. I was wrong, but I can’t change what happened. I did my job on the field to try to make the Hall of Fame, then I screwed up his job,” Rose said in gesturing to Greene, “of trying to get me into the Hall of Fame.”
“I am sorry I bet on baseball,” he said with real exasperation. “That’s the truest statement I’ve ever made.”
That was a reference to the controversial Rose-signed and inscribed baseball that he sells on his website, www.peterose.com.
“I’ve also got a ball that says, ‘Hits 4,256; Steroids 0.’ If that’s what fans want, that’s fine. I’ve also got a black ball like that, too, with the inscription about ‘I’m sorry,’ in gold pen.”
That’s good enough for me. For quite a few years, I was pretty mad about the lying part, but I am pretty sure the punishment for that, and the original sin – no pun intended – of betting on baseball, has been more than sufficient.
Over the coming years, we are probably going to be watching a lot of guys tainted with the steroids brush wind up with plaques in Cooperstown. I can’t handle all the moral and ethical gymnastics required to say that’s OK, but Peter Rose needs to be banned. Just the thought of trying to sort that out gives me a headache.
(Copied from Tuff Stuff website)
USN 1977-1987 * ALL cards are commons unless auto'd. Buying Britneycards. NWO for life.
0
Comments
My Sandberg topps basic set
My Sandberg Topps Master set
Rose is a joke of a person....... but WAS a great player. Oh well!
Steroids is nothing compared to betting on baseball.
Dont try to compare a small thing like steroids to something like betting on games you were directly involved in.
Jackson, Weaver, Rose, etc. Banned forever is the only way to go. Dont like the punishment, dont do the crime.
striking a note that has been a mainstay for virtually the whole ordeal. “If you ask me, I think the
Hall of Fame is a joke if I’m not in it, because I’ve got all those records. I played hard and I didn’t cheat
the people. I gave people their moneys’ worth.” """
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Blanket amnesty for for ALL wrongdoers through 2008, is the final soulution.
If someone is busted for steroids and says "Ya I used them and I made a mistake" everyone is able to forgive."
///////////////////////////////////////
It's always the lie and the coverup that Americans cannot get over.
............
Steroids is cheating inside of the game. The record book and other players
are the victims. VERY bad.
Betting on your own team to win is breaking the rules, but it is victimless;
except, that ALL rule breaking is "against the rules."
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
<< <i>
Steroids is nothing compared to betting on baseball.
Dont try to compare a small thing like steroids to something like betting on games you were directly involved in.
>>
You have a never ending supply of moronic statements, do you. First, you cant even compare the two...apples and oranges. Second, obviously steroids is not a "small thing"...ask any player who will be shunned from the HOF (at least for a good while) and players who are in trouble because of them.
Rose was found to have bet on baseball and was justifiably banned. All his talk about other stuff like baseball's hypocrisy when it comes to allowing him at certain events and not others; or the blind eye regarding steroid use, is irrelevant and meant only to cloud the issue. He knew what he was doing was wrong and should never have done it. At one time Mantle and Mays were faced with the possibility of banishment because of their associations with an Atlantic City casino (Forgive me if the details aren't exactly right, but the gist is correct.) even though neither was even accused of betting on baseball. Both men had the good sense to end their casino associations. It has always been made clear that MLB frowns on baseball-gambling and takes it very seriously.
Equally irrelevant is the argument that Rose should be in the HOF simply because of his achievements on the field. Yes, his career merits induction, but all that was made moot by his gambling. Once banned, the HOF is off limits no matter what one has achieved.
I admired Pete Rose as a player. Now he has made himself a pathetic figure for whom I have no sympathy. He mad his own bed.
Or would some of the voters read Rule 5 of "Rules for Election by the Baseball Writers' Association of America" which states:
"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."
and see that while Rose gets a 100% for his playing record, playing ability and contributions to the teams that he played for, he would get a ZERO (0%) for integrity, sportsmanship and character and ultimately vote NO for election?
I mean, 4256 hits is 4256 hits, but the rules clearly state that what you did on the field makes up only a portion of what is considered in the voting process. In other words, if you are a bad human being, the votes may choose not the vote for you.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Steve Howe belongs in the HOF . >>
Just a funny recollection related to the Howe saga: I don't recall the exact year, but I think it was around 1981. It was well after Howe won ROY, but before his first bout with drug abuse became public knowledge. I was visiting my uncle who happened to have a friend over his house. The friend was a veteran LAPD detective. We were talking about the Dodgers when the detective friend said that Howe would soon be gone from baseball. When I asked why he said, simply, "Drugs." It sound shocking and unbelievable at the time.
Looking back, the detective was only half right. Drugs ruined Howe's promising career, but that career end definitely came well beyond "soon."
////////////////////////////////////////////////
That they MAY; or, not.
I am not going to bash the inductees, but I could find some "less than sterling"
characters in their ranks.
75% is a high hurdle, but in a given year - at some point - the number would
likely be there.
Selig's unyielding position precludes us from knowing how folks might vote.
He keeps asking himself, "Is cheating the game, the same as cheating AT the game?"
He keeps answering "yes." NOT everybody, agrees.
Events seem to indicate that Selig has been "worse" for baseball than Rose EVER was.
When drug-pumped HULKS were helping Selig collect money, his failures to act caused
some folks to find that he HIMSELF might be short on the integrity/character front.
<< <i>Bet on baseball, banned for life. ............its thats simple, really.
Rose is a joke of a person....... but WAS a great player. Oh well!
Steroids is nothing compared to betting on baseball.
Dont try to compare a small thing like steroids to something like betting on games you were directly involved in.
Jackson, Weaver, Rose, etc. Banned forever is the only way to go. Dont like the punishment, dont do the crime. >>
I don't think you truly understand the bigger picture if you think betting on baseball is any worse than steroid usage. Both are cheating. One sin is no greater than the other. Steroids ARE NOT a small thing.
Steroid usage has forever tarnished an era of baseball, as well as some pretty important MLB records. Please tell me how Pete Rose had this bad of an effect on MLB? Truly, Pete Rose didn't, if anyone is very honest with themselves.
EDIT: spell
<< <i>That they MAY; or, not. >>
Yes, you are correct. This means the voters have the option of considering whether Player X is a bad human being. This is unlike the By-laws of the Pro Football Hall of Fame which require voters to consider only what happens on the field. (Makes you wonder what would happen if a player committed a felony on the field of play against another player. Of course, this is not what the By-laws are referring to.)
And though I highly doubt Mr. Selig's eyes will ever read this thread, of course, there is a difference between cheating the game versus cheating at the game. Example of cheating at the game: stealing signs, pitcher with foreign substances (emory board), corked bat (Sammy Sosa). Examples of cheating the game: steroids/HGH ... though this crosses over to cheating at the game as well, gambling by people in baseball.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>There's no way we'll know for sure until, if and when Rose is eligible, but I ask, IS IT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT ROSE WOULD RECEIVE 75% OF THE VOTE?
Or would some of the voters read Rule 5 of "Rules for Election by the Baseball Writers' Association of America" which states:
"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."
and see that while Rose gets a 100% for his playing record, playing ability and contributions to the teams that he played for, he would get a ZERO (0%) for integrity, sportsmanship and character and ultimately vote NO for election?
I mean, 4256 hits is 4256 hits, but the rules clearly state that what you did on the field makes up only a portion of what is considered in the voting process. In other words, if you are a bad human being, the votes may choose not the vote for you.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
The important thing is that Rose gets on the ballot and gets a fair shake. Let the writers decide if he belongs, not some bureaucracy.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
<< <i>Let the writers decide if he belongs, not some bureaucracy. >>
I suppose that is my ultimate inquiry. It seems like there are more than some people who think that Rose on Ballot = Automatic Induction. Am I the only one who thinks it is a very likely possibility that Rose falls short of receiving the requisite 75% for induction? I really think it would not be surprising at all if Rose received 40% to 50% of the vote or that he never's gets inducted during his lifetime. And then that would be something, e.g., after all this hooting and hollaring, Rose finally gets on the ballot and falls substantially short of receiving enough votes; essentially mooting decades of discussion about him getting on the ballot.
/s/ JackWESQ
I do agree however, Selig is an equine's keister
<< <i>'m a Pete Rose (the player) Fan, I enjoyed the times I watched him play. I'm sure there are worse "people" in the hall than him and I know there are worse players than him in there as well. The hall of fame selection process is flawed but that's the way it is, just like the betting on baseball rule. He deserves whatever punishment those in charge hand out, I just don't think those in charge are as honorable and forthcoming as they would have you think (MLB execs and the sportswriters). >>
I don't take what Pete Rose ever says seriously. That being said, Pete Rose was one of the best players who ever played the game. I totally respect the sport and understand why he shouldn't be in the HOF, but I wish there was a way he could be.
This is sad to see where Pete Rose is going these days...Look at this ball for sale on his website,
<< <i>Old news. If Pete wasnt such a degenerate gambler and liar he wouldnt be ion this mess. He is still an addict and he is still an embarassment to the game. >>
The game's done plenty to embarrass itself without Rose's help, but he's such a complete loser I hope he is never again affiliated with MLB or is inducted into the Hall of Fame. As is often the case, it's not so much the crime as the cover-up. Our culture is incredibly forgiving. Had Rose shown some contrition and made his way through the mea culpa talk show circuit when he first had the chance, he wouldn't be in this mess indeed. In fact, I bet he'd be even more popular.
4,256
All-time Major League record for most games played:
3,562
All-time Major League record for most at bats:
14,053
All-time Major League record for most singles:
3,215
All-time Major League record for most total bases by a switch hitter:
5,752
All-time Major League record for most seasons of 200 or more hits:
10
All-time Major League record for most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits:
23
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 600 or more at bats:
17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 150 or more games played:
17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 100 or more games played:
23
Only player in Major League history to play more than 500 games at five different Positions:
1B (939) 2B (628) 3B (634)
LF (671) RF (595)
Major League record for playing in the most winning games:
1,972
All-time National League record for most years played:
24
All-time National League record for most consecutive years played:
24
All-time National League record for most career runs:
2,165
All-time National League record for most career doubles:
746
All-time National League record for most games with 5 or more hits:
10
Modern National League record for longest consecutive game hitting streak:
44
Modern National League Record for most consecutive game hitting
streaks of 20 or more games:
7
<< <i>Please tell me how Pete Rose had this bad of an effect on MLB? >>
Yeah, there's nothing to see here. Move along, move along...
Sincerely,
The 1919 "Black" Socks
<< <i>All-time Major League record for most career hits:
4,256
All-time Major League record for most games played:
3,562
All-time Major League record for most at bats:
14,053
All-time Major League record for most singles:
3,215
All-time Major League record for most total bases by a switch hitter:
5,752
All-time Major League record for most seasons of 200 or more hits:
10
All-time Major League record for most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits:
23
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 600 or more at bats:
17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 150 or more games played:
17
All-time Major League record for most seasons with 100 or more games played:
23
Only player in Major League history to play more than 500 games at five different Positions:
1B (939) 2B (628) 3B (634)
LF (671) RF (595)
Major League record for playing in the most winning games:
1,972
All-time National League record for most years played:
24
All-time National League record for most consecutive years played:
24
All-time National League record for most career runs:
2,165
All-time National League record for most career doubles:
746
All-time National League record for most games with 5 or more hits:
10
Modern National League record for longest consecutive game hitting streak:
44
Modern National League Record for most consecutive game hitting
streaks of 20 or more games:
7 >>
All-time Major League record for phone calls made to a bookie from clubhouse.
All-time Major League worst haircut of the 80s.
seriously though, Pete is such a pathetic guy now. And he's trying to play that part too. He was a hell of a player....definitely a role model between the lines. I think within 20 years, he'll be inducted into the Hall. by then, whomever is in charge of making those kinds of decisions will have to think that he's paid his dues.