Methinks I'm about to be screwed because I did not put delivery confirmation on an item.

RonBurgundy · June 9, 2008 12:42PM

Sold a lot of 50's vintage recently on the Bay. Buyer lives 300 miles away, same state. I ship package parcel post, fully insured on 5/27 but forgot to add delivery confirmation. Guy emails me last week saying he hasn't gotten the package, and again today.

I think it may be because parcel post is slow (yes, I should've sent it priority), but I'm starting to get the feeling I'm being duped.

Ron

Allen · June 9, 2008 12:45PM

I ship everything with DC using PayPal labels. I still get probably 2-3 emails a week saying "Have you shipped?" "Where is my card?" and the DC says it was dlvd. days before. I send them the tracking info and they never respond, makes you wonder how many people try to get something for nothing.

envoy98 · June 9, 2008 1:01PM

Same thing has happened to me. The funny thing is, they all get emails from paypal as soon as the label is printed. So they know it's been shipped and even have the tracking info.

If you insured the package, he'll have to file the claim to get reimbursed. Plain and simple. The nice thing is, the PO can tell you if it was delivered and to whom. It's just that payPal won't use that as proof of delivery. It takes too much work for them to read a letter from the PO. I had the exact same thing happen to me by a guy on ebay several years ago. Sent it with INS but no DC. He filed dispute, I lost. Went to collect on Insurance and he wouldn't fill out the paperwork. Turns out, he signed for the item weeks earlier, PO told me to get bent and since he wouldn't sign the claim for insurance, they wouldn't do anything to him. I lost $130. piercer69 on ebay if anyone cares. Randall Pierce was his name.

storm888 · June 9, 2008 1:04PM

You're shafted on the DC with PayPal.

BUT, you might still get an insurance claim through,
if you can get the crook/buyer to cooperate.

ALL sellers must use DC on ALL packages, if they want
to survive the new EBAY.

Crooks are crawling out from under their previous disguises,
as the economy turns to caca.

Leiascards · June 9, 2008 1:06PM

So they know it's been shipped and even have the tracking info

It does not say the item has been shipped all it says is a label was created. If you do not get it scanned at the PO it will say that until it is delivered. It is actually very misleading to a buyer.

Leiascards · June 9, 2008 1:07PM

ALL sellers must use DC on ALL packages, if they want

Not me not on items under 25.00. I just refund and move on in most cases where they say they don't recieve it. Most of my items sell in VERY VERY low risk categories and many are repeat customers.

gumbyfan · June 9, 2008 1:10PM

<< It does not say the item has been shipped all it says is a label was created. If you do not get it scanned at the PO it will say that until it is delivered. It is actually very misleading to a buyer. >>

...and good luck getting your Post Office to scan in the DC bar codes you print at home. I have had exactly 0% of mine scanned, even when I asked them to. My local PO insists that all of the information is already online, so there's no need for them to scan it in.

For that, on any transactions where I feel even the slightest chance that I've got a troublesome buyer on my hands, I will just buy my postage at the PO and then they'll scan it in from the start.

storm888 · June 9, 2008 1:11PM

"..It is actually very misleading to a buyer. "

///////////////////////////

Yup.

I use the "real one" at USPS, because it is ALWAYS scanned on acceptance.
Every buyer gets a # and instructions about the USPS website.
It gives the buyer something to do; track his/her package online. It also
lets scamsters know that I will know when the item is scanned as delivered.

Allen · June 9, 2008 1:13PM

My stuff always gets scanned. I have heard others say that, but I have never had a problem.

RonBurgundy · June 16, 2008 12:54PM

Sure enough, the guy emails me today claiming he never got it. I can't prove it but I know damn well he probably did. In all likelihood I'm going to require him to file the insurance papers before I will issue the refund, and if he refuses I will tell him to suck it. This is a bad attitude I know but the guy has flat out ripped me off and I'm playing hardball. If you mess with Burgundy, better bring the big toys.

RB

Leiascards · June 16, 2008 1:01PM

<< Sure enough, the guy emails me today claiming he never got it. I can't prove it but I know damn well he probably did. In all likelihood I'm going to require him to file the insurance papers before I will issue the refund, and if he refuses I will tell him to suck it. This is a bad attitude I know but the guy has flat out ripped me off and I'm playing hardball. If you mess with Burgundy, better bring the big toys.

RB >>

Did he pay with Paypal? If so he does not need to do anything but file with them.

DrJ · June 16, 2008 1:01PM

<< Sure enough, the guy emails me today claiming he never got it. I can't prove it but I know damn well he probably did. In all likelihood I'm going to require him to file the insurance papers before I will issue the refund, and if he refuses I will tell him to suck it. This is a bad attitude I know but the guy has flat out ripped me off and I'm playing hardball. If you mess with Burgundy, better bring the big toys.

RB >>

What if he never did receive the package?

Buccaneer · June 16, 2008 1:07PM

Heck, I even ship a check in an envelope DC. It's the best investment one can make, no matter how big or small the shipment is.

SDavid · June 16, 2008 1:11PM

My stuff always gets scanned. I have heard others say that, but I have never had a problem.

My stuff isn't scanned at the local po, but it is scanned at distribution centers along the way.

RonBurgundy · June 16, 2008 1:16PM

No question I made a huge mistake by forgetting to ship DC. That one's on me. But when the dude in his message tells me he had "several Ebay members email him wanting to buy the lot" and suggesting that I sold it out from underneath him, the red flags go up and he can flat out suck it. If he challenges me on this I will sue his arse and get the Postal Inspection Service to go out and talk to him. On the other hand if he's a good boy and files the insurance papers I'll do whatever.

RB

storm888 · June 16, 2008 1:25PM

Was this a PayPal transaction?

If not, the seller is in the driver's seat.

If PP is in the mix, the seller is toast,

I too would get the postal cops into the game.

Leiascards · June 16, 2008 1:33PM

Good luck getting the Postal Inspectors to do anything. They rarely even move unless we are talking a couple of thousand dollars. They will look at you and ask where the proof is you ever even actually mailed those items and where is your proof he recieved them. When you cannot prove either they will close the case. The same thing in a court action, even if you won in court it is doubtful you will ever get anything, most states offer no enforcement of small claims judgements.

How much are we talking here and was Paypal involved?

You would also be amazed how often a good bluff though will settle the matters.

Have you told him you did not have DC? If not tell him that you turned the number over to the USPS for them to investigate the Postal Inspectors will be contacting him in a day or 2. This will sometimes get a reaction that might tell you if he did in fact recieve them or not.

RonBurgundy · June 16, 2008 1:38PM

I am an attorney and have contact with the USPIS, as well as regular contact with the Texas court system. I can usually get them to move for me. Money is no object if I think this guy is screwing me. I have all the sympathy in the world for people who lose their items in the mail and will make it right for them - always - but I smell a rat here and my instincts are usually spot on. Buck up, this is gonna be a fun one, it's Texas, let's git on with it.

RB

DrJ · June 16, 2008 1:42PM

<< No question I made a huge mistake by forgetting to ship DC. That one's on me. But when the dude in his message tells me he had "several Ebay members email him wanting to buy the lot" and suggesting that I sold it out from underneath him, the red flags go up and he can flat out suck it. If he challenges me on this I will sue his arse and get the Postal Inspection Service to go out and talk to him. On the other hand if he's a good boy and files the insurance papers I'll do whatever.

RB >>

Are you serious? You have zero proof the guy is not telling the truth and now you are talking about sueing him and turning him into the postal police. Nothing against you, but it is reactions and threats like this why eBay had to change the feedback rules for sellers.

Take a deep breath and learn from your mistakes for future auctions.

J

RonBurgundy · June 16, 2008 1:53PM

I have zero proof he is telling the truth and some circumstantial evidence to the contrary. All I'm saying is if the dude wants to play hardball and not help me with my insurance claim, it's Texas and we'll go to work.

RB

JeffD27177 · June 16, 2008 1:53PM

<< They rarely even move unless we are talking a couple of thousand dollars. They will look at you and ask where the proof is you ever even actually mailed those items and where is your proof he recieved them. When you cannot prove either they will close the case. >>

Well according to the OP, the cards were sent fully insured. It's my understanding that as long as it was above a certain amount, there would be a signature record of him receiving the package.
This receipt of delivery and signature is not traceable ONLINE, which is why it's not enough for a PayPal dispute. But when it's going to come time to file a claim with the USPS, it should be evident if the package was delivered or not, and who signed for it.

Leiascards · June 16, 2008 2:03PM

That is true, but the part we do not know is if Paypal was involved and the amount of money involved. If Paypal was involved then the OP will lose.. PERIOD regardless of if he files insurance or not. I believe the USPS requires the shipper to file all the insurance paperwork, I have alway been told it is the shippers responsibility.

Texas is not one of the states you really want to win a small claims suit in. Collection is next to impossible. I know from experience and have had the AG and 4 other attorneys tell me I am basically SOL on the 2400.00 I won in 2006.

My grandfather has won 2 Small claims cases in Texas and has never been able to get the state to do anything about collecting on them. He did manage to get a lien put on one of the losers homes, but he has to pay every 2 years to keep the lien active.

ahkmedbinladen · June 16, 2008 2:32PM

Ron,
If you insured it for more than 200.00 then the buyer will have to sign for it and your P.O. that you mailed it from will have access to that info and if you act nice they will probably print a copy for you showing the time,date , and signature of the item. I have spoken with paypal and if it comes down to it,that info would work for them.
If you insured for less than 200.00 and he paid by paypal, then your title of this post says it all....your screwed buddy. I hope that it is not the case. The other outside possibility is that the parcel post really hasnt gotten there yet. I have been in this situation before and hopefully it is not a costly lesson for you. Bottom line ....you gotta put DC on your items and Signature confirmation on any thing over 250.00 with paypal. Good luck Texas tough guy.

earlycalguy · June 16, 2008 3:46PM

regardless of occupation, state you live in or who you know paypal wants proof of delivery. if you need to file an insurance claim that should be filed by you and not the buyer. you bought insurance for your protection, not the buyer's protection.

like the above poster said even though you do not have a d/c number if it was insured for over $250 then they should have signed for it. check your PO and they can probably get you an online signature which you should be able to give to paypal. but if you can't get that from the PO then you may be out of luck as far as paypal is concerned.

jimq112 · June 16, 2008 9:00PM

<< That is true, but the part we do not know is if Paypal was involved and the amount of money involved. If Paypal was involved then the OP will lose.. PERIOD regardless of if he files insurance or not. I believe the USPS requires the shipper to file all the insurance paperwork, I have alway been told it is the shippers responsibility.

Texas is not one of the states you really want to win a small claims suit in. Collection is next to impossible. I know from experience and have had the AG and 4 other attorneys tell me I am basically SOL on the 2400.00 I won in 2006.

My grandfather has won 2 Small claims cases in Texas and has never been able to get the state to do anything about collecting on them. He did manage to get a lien put on one of the losers homes, but he has to pay every 2 years to keep the lien active. >>

If it's insured for over $200 then USPS should have a scan of the signature tied to the tracking number. You can't see that online but they can see it and print it from the postal intranet.

That would be bad for the buyer in this case.

WinPitcher · June 16, 2008 10:28PM

I believe the USPS requires the shipper to file all the insurance paperwork,

Not true, either can file, both need to sign though.

Steve

jimq112 · June 16, 2008 10:55PM

<< I believe the USPS requires the shipper to file all the insurance paperwork,

Not true, either can file, both need to sign though.

Steve >>

Shipper applies when its's "lost", either can apply when received damaged and it's better for the receiver to actually file when it's been
damaged, since the receiver has all the evidence.

RonBurgundy · June 17, 2008 12:09AM

Here's the details:

Buyer paid by Paypal.

I insured for $350.

Also agree that it's possible the package really hasn't arrived yet. Stranger things have happened.

I hate that buyers get in a situation where a package truly doesn't arrive, but too many red flags with this one have made me suspicious. That's why I'm bowing up a little. We'll see what happens.

jimq112 · June 17, 2008 12:31AM

If you PM me the insurance number I can check at work tomorrow and possibly print out a copy of the signature. He might be a little more willing to admit it arrived if you can show him his autograph.

Sometimes I can't get in to print a copy, we're not really supposed to do that but if it helps I can try.

WinPitcher · June 17, 2008 12:38AM

Jim I had a buyer do the legwork when he claimed an item was 'lost' even though the DC showed
it was delivered. I printed out a copy of the claim form, signed it, (filled out what I had to) and told the buyer here ya go.

Steve

WinPitcher · June 17, 2008 12:39AM

Ron for like 85 more cents you could have had electronic signature.

DC would not have helped you (with PP) in this case.

Steve

KbKards · June 17, 2008 12:51AM

It's really hard to believe that an experienced seller would get themselves into a situation like this. There's probably an average of a post a week about Paypal and needing to use delivery confirmation or signature confirmation. Even in this case at $350 in value you needed a signature confirmation not a delivery confirmation. Paypal has those simple rules for a reason, to protect both the buyer and seller from each other, the postal system, and anything else that could happen along the way. If you follow their rules it insures the delivery process. If the PO ate the package then you have a good seller and good buyer both with the sneaky hunch that the other guy's ripping them off.

Leiascards · June 17, 2008 5:51AM

If it was 350.00 then Delivery Confirmation would not save you anyway, you would need signature confirmation. If they file with Paypal you will lose the proof has to be viewed online the signature on the insurance does not meet that requirement.

earlycalguy · June 17, 2008 5:55AM

<< If it was 350.00 then Delivery Confirmation would not save you anyway, you would need signature confirmation. If they file with Paypal you will lose the proof has to be viewed online the signature on the insurance does not meet that requirement. >>

I've had the online sig. work before. PO printed a copy for me and I faxed it to paypal for proof of delivery.

Leiascards · June 17, 2008 6:04AM

You got lucky their own TOS clearly states how it has to be and also says faxed copies are not considered as proof.

storm888 · June 17, 2008 6:14AM

"You got lucky their own TOS clearly states how it has to be and also says faxed copies are not considered as proof."

/////////////////////////////////////////////////

There are now a good number of cases reported where PP accepted the subject copies.

The claims are first found against the seller, but a supervisor/manager can/will reverse
the finding IF the seller is either very polite OR threatens litigation.

The insistence of "online viewable" was originally thought to be about convenience and
practicality. It is now clear to many folks that it is really about trying to "encourage"
sellers to use PP postage-services; EBAY wants a cut of every penny involved in
every transaction.

jimq112 · June 17, 2008 7:07AM

Tom you have a PM

jim

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · June 17, 2008 9:20AM

This guy got his cards from me exactally one month after it was postmarked.

Another never got his magazine. It eventually was shipped back to me as having the wrong addy. It was correct and P.O. remailed it for free.

Both buyers had red flags I found and I thought I was getting screwed until it worked itself out.

Another guy said he never got one of his orders. I refunded and claimed I mailed them but no D.C. About a year later I found them, they fell behind my desk !!! I mailed them and apologized to him and he replied thankfully.

Unsure about your situation, but Good Luck.

Methinks I'm about to be screwed because I did not put delivery confirmation on an item.

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