Moral Dilemma Regarding 1959 Topps Baseball Set And Family Member
MooseDog
Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭
OK, I know this will elicit a wide range of responses so here goes.
My step-brother (he's 12 years older than me) just emailed me asking my opinion about buying a 1959 Topps Baseball Set on eBay. He said he's trying to relive his childhood and he collected cards from 1959-1963. I know because he gave them to me.
Over the years I completed the set and upgraded many if not most of the cards. His hand-me-downs were your basic rubberband/cigar box quality. The set is not gem mint but I was always into centering so I improved a lot there. It's probably a strong EX set overall. I do now have most of the starts graded such as Mantle PSA5, Aaron PSA7, etc.
We're not particularly close and don't communicate that often. Our family is all that way. No touchy-feely story here. No animosity either. It just is what it is. He's a semi-retired cardiologist, I've never even owned my own house and I'll be 50 in a couple of years. I have some serious outstanding debt from a failed business I've been paying off for 8 years and it will be a long time before I see the end of that.
I'm not totally attached to that set, but it does have some sentimental value as 1959 was the year I was born and there is the fact that he gave me the cards and to me it's just a cool looking set. However as I am getting older I am less attached to "things".
Should I offer to sell him my set?
Should I offer to just give him the set? Should I accept if he offers to buy it? And if he does, should I ask a market price?
Opinions please!
My step-brother (he's 12 years older than me) just emailed me asking my opinion about buying a 1959 Topps Baseball Set on eBay. He said he's trying to relive his childhood and he collected cards from 1959-1963. I know because he gave them to me.
Over the years I completed the set and upgraded many if not most of the cards. His hand-me-downs were your basic rubberband/cigar box quality. The set is not gem mint but I was always into centering so I improved a lot there. It's probably a strong EX set overall. I do now have most of the starts graded such as Mantle PSA5, Aaron PSA7, etc.
We're not particularly close and don't communicate that often. Our family is all that way. No touchy-feely story here. No animosity either. It just is what it is. He's a semi-retired cardiologist, I've never even owned my own house and I'll be 50 in a couple of years. I have some serious outstanding debt from a failed business I've been paying off for 8 years and it will be a long time before I see the end of that.
I'm not totally attached to that set, but it does have some sentimental value as 1959 was the year I was born and there is the fact that he gave me the cards and to me it's just a cool looking set. However as I am getting older I am less attached to "things".
Should I offer to sell him my set?
Should I offer to just give him the set? Should I accept if he offers to buy it? And if he does, should I ask a market price?
Opinions please!
0
Comments
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TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>Not to sound corny here but I find it hard to beat the feeling of giving something to somebody that I know would just make their day. >>
I usually lean this way too, although my final decision on matters like this tend to depend on whether or not I've been drinking at the time that I make up my mind. If I'm half lit I send an email, or make a phone call, and make an obscenely generous offer. If I'm sober I tend to be more shrewd.
Whatever you do, you can at least feel relieved that neither decision would be considered callous (or naive) by a rational observer.
What you decide to do should go beyond monetary value. You have more going on in your life than this set. Do what makes your heart feel good.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>Lawnmowerman is right on.
What you decide to do should go beyond monetary value. You have more going on in your life than this set. Do what makes your heart feel good. >>
I agree with this . . . just make sure that you won't kick yourself later or resent your step-brother if you have giver's remorse.
If the brother has plenty of money, it would not be improper
for you to offer to sell him the set at about market-value.
You might tell him how much his friendship has meant to
you and how much you appreciate that he might be able
to help you once again by purchasing the set. You can
tell him that you were about to have to sell it to somebody
else; "I am so glad you want to buy it, instead of a stranger."
If you feel uncomfortable selling back a gift......don't. If you
cannot help yourself, you could offer to help him buy some
cards on EBAY.
Under NO circumstances should you let the brother send you
on a guilt vacation and cause you to give the rich guy the set for free.
I have many years of experience dealing with siblings. I
know what they are capable of, and I know what I am
capable of, too. Relatives are interesting, but gold will
usually see you through times of no relatives better
than relatives will see you through times of no gold.
Sounds like you need the cash, so either sit on the set or dump it somehow. However, giving the set to a rich relative sounds like a bad idea. Perhaps he wants the actual cards he gave you, not sure how to handle that. Once you give something, it's a gift, not a loaner to be given back somehow.
Maybe the best way to play is to just say nothing and see if it comes up again. Sounds like he wants to buy one on Ebay, why not refer him to a Mastro auction or some other high end place to buy a complete set. At least the entire set will be graded and the real deal. You don't want the relative to buy a trimmed set do ya??
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Obviously, if he is smart enough to be a doctor, he can see he is in a better financial situation than you are at this time. Unless he wants to take advantage of your being family, he will make a fair offer. That way, if he is fair with his offer, he gets what he wants, and it will help your situation. Both of you win in the end.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Have you ever considering selling the 1959 set to pay off some of your "serious outstanding debt"? If so, then why haven't you? If not, then given that as you are getting older and being "less attached to 'things'", I would consider giving the 1959 set to your step-brother because I echo lawnmowerman's sentiments.
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Additionally, I agree with kingraider75, e.g., don't do business with family. I have it worse as I get asked to perform legal services for family members. Oh boy, that's something else.
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<< <i>.....Over the years I completed the set and upgraded many if not most of the cards...... >>
Do you still have the cards that had to be upgraded? If it were 200 or 300 cards that you upgraded, and you still have them, give those back to him, and let him use card shows and eBay to complete it. Having him try to complete it week by week and month by month (like in 1959 when he was opening packs) will definitely be more like reliving his childhood than just handing him a full set.
My step bro and I (none of my family) really are not close. It's due to our upbringing as my parents (my mom, their dad, but my mom raised them from about 3 years old after their mom died) were very distant non-emotional types and pretty much left us on our own. They were by no means bad parents, they just weren't that involved and we all turned out OK for the most part.
No one really knows my financial situation. I don't talk about it, I don't borrow money from friends or family. They may have an idea but like I said, I don't make a big deal about it.
I'm sure he would have no problems about buying the set. He does not collect anything. Although he is an MD he does not spend money like a lot of people in that position. He lives pretty modestly compared to some medical specialists and is a throwback - he actually saves his money.
There are probably less than 10% of his original cards in the set. The card he gave me were mostly beaters and rubber banded and he wrote on the back of some of them. So in a sense it is really MY set. However those cards may have started the madness that is card collecting, which of course led to autographs, programs, game used jerseys...well, you all know how that goes.
He has three kids all in their 20s now and none have any interest in sports whatsoever, so passing on is not an issue.
For those who have suggested, yes, the set will be sold at some point, I'm really trying to move other stuff and had that set pegged as one of the last things to go if it came down to selling all my stuff. I might not be managing my debt load in the smartest way, but I'm not at the point where I have to panic sell anything. I recently sold a 1968 set and am getting a 1965 set ready for sale this month - it's and EX+ set with about 150 graded PSA 6-8. Let me know if anyone's interested. I have a 1969 and 1971 set that will probably be offered over the summer. I could sell my crown jewels and be out of debt but I think the high end of the market that those particular items is still strong and not at the point I'd be willing to part. I've held out before when I've been down this road and those items have gone up 10x or more in value based on auction prices of similar items.
Good suggestions to help him find a set, or partial set and help him finish it out, but I think he'd rather just have a set. Don't think he's got the patience to piece together a set (that's from our dad's side!). He'd probably be happy with a beater set. Mine's nice, but not PSA 7 or 8 nice. I sent in a few and PSA seems to be particularly harsh on that set.
I agree with VITO
<< <i>There are probably less than 10% of his original cards in the set. The card he gave me were mostly beaters and rubber banded and he wrote on the back of some of them. So in a sense it is really MY set. However those cards may have started the madness that is card collecting, which of course led to autographs, programs, game used jerseys...well, you all know how that goes. >>
I agree with the statement earlier about doing business with family. That being said, if you sold him the set, sell it at the price you would want for the cards..I don't think you should give him a special deal just because he's a step brother. Money is money and you have a life of investment in the cards.
From reading your last post, it sounds like you are not ready to sell, in which I might have a suggestion for you.
Do you remember exactly which cards were from him? You also mentioned he is a retired Dr. so he should have money right? Tell him you will help him purchase the cards in which he could trade to you for the ones he original had as a kid, but the cards would have to be equal or better of course. Then you could also help him or point him in the direction of buying a set or cards to start his collection. If you only end helping him make purchases, that is invaluable to him as you have many years of collecting on your belt. Either way, do what you feel comfortable with and not just because you feel you owe somebody something.
Good luck to you!
Brian
but don't sell it to him or offer to.. it may create weird unneeded tensions
the guy has money and may enjoy building his own set for the satisfaction
especially a semi retired guy like your bro.
if you have doubles.. maybe send them to him as a surprise to help him on his way
bob
I didn't get a chance to read all the posts, so hopefully this wasn't suggested already.
How about selling your set if you need the money to pay bills or whatever the reason is, and then buying 1-2 of some stars in the set and giving those to him to help him get started? You get what you need and at the same time, you can help him out and he'll have the fun of putting the set together.
You might get a side bonus of developing a friendship along the way.
Thats my 2 cents, and I wish you the best scenario with this!
i do believe you should never loan money to a family member..
however, i've done business with family members on many occassions with no problems..
dont be afraid to sell the set to him, you can even write up a bill of sale..
unless he is completely looney, there should be no problems with a fair transaction..
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Over the years I completed the set and upgraded many if not most of the cards...... >>
Do you still have the cards that had to be upgraded? If it were 200 or 300 cards that you upgraded, and you still have them, give those back to him, and let him use card shows and eBay to complete it. Having him try to complete it week by week and month by month (like in 1959 when he was opening packs) will definitely be more like reliving his childhood than just handing him a full set. >>
nick has a great idea here.
////////////////////////////////////////////////
I do it all the time.
My least favorite ones, I "loan" the largest amounts to.
This absolutely ASSURES that I will NOT see them around
here for a long while.
There's a lot of good advice here, not the least of which is Matt's corny advice about how it feels to give something to someone. I've considered all the advice and deduced that your most appropriate action, all things considered, is to give the set to me
-Tom
Here's what I would do if I were you (my brother and I did this with a 1976 set we completed together when we were younger, it was a blast). It's a modification to Nick's idea:
(1) Gather all of the 1959's you have (your set plus duplicates from upgrades, if any).
(2) Call your step-brother and tell him you would like to get together and split the cards via a "draft". Start with any duplicates, each select one, then continue with what is left.
(3) When the draft is done, you will each have >= 1/2 a set. Make a pact to work on completing the sets together over time.
If needed, factor in each of your current investment into the set and have the person who is currently in for less pay the other one to make the cost basis equal (may be hard to figure your step-bro's cost basis due to the fact that he had the cards in 1959, but you could do it based on value).
Perhaps in doing so, you can change some of the "were not super close" relationship. You don't have to hug until the sets are done. Who knows, the experience may end up building more than just a second set of baseball cards.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
-Tom
Certainly you have a stack of '59 doubles around, right?
Years ago, he gave you a stack of '59s, that help started your collection. Even if it's not the same stack, why not give him a stack and offer to help him build the set?
Explain the work, time and money you've put into your set. Perhaps your gift will inspire the same in him.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
My brother actually made this easier than I was making it out to be by offering to buy the set. He's more interested in having the cards than the grades, so I think what will ultimately happen is that we will replace the graded cards (just a couple dozen mostly PSA 5-7 stars) with lesser or ungraded ones and I'll still have the graded to sell.
He's not too interested in building a set but who knows, helping him track down a few on eBay might get him started. Good to see him interested in something else besides medicine (he's the type of guy who reads medical texts and medical journals for fun).
Moose, in your situation, I would have just helped my brother pick out a set. Need to give or sell him yours unless he offers to buy (which he apparently did).
Tabe