Yeah, that's one Pujols card I wish I had gotten back in 2001. That and the Fleer Premium redemption. They just look so sharp. Not paying that much for one now, though.
WANTED: 2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25 2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9 Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
<< <i>Yeah, that's one Pujols card I wish I had gotten back in 2001. That and the Fleer Premium redemption. They just look so sharp. Not paying that much for one now, though. >>
do you mean the Fleer Platinum Redemption? The Lumberjack Auto (Huge Auto on a even Bigger Game Used Bat Slice)
I pulled a 2001 Leaf R&S Slideshow auto of Pujols from a case I busted in 2002 and immediately sold it on ebay for less than $300. Wish I had held onto it a little longer. Havent seen one since.
<< <i>I pulled a 2001 Leaf R&S Slideshow auto of Pujols from a case I busted in 2002 and immediately sold it on ebay for less than $300. Wish I had held onto it a little longer. Havent seen one since. >>
ME Either, that is one of the hardest cards to find!! if you ever see another please let me know, that is one of the few 2001 Pujols cards i dont have (yet)...
Yea, i saw that...really hard to understand why someone would bid that high for that card when they could have a psa 9 spx AUTO for only $400 (which have recently sold for $1000)....although looking at the bidders on it, there were only 2 different bidders above $220 (and both bidders have 53 fb or less).
Im with Gumby. I can't see any of these Modern day Marketed chase cards having that kind of value over the long haul. Modern cards like these are bought mainly for the "Whats it worth factor" Theres no nostalgic, historical or emotional attachment for the player. Once the Speculation period is over they will move on to the next:
"Limited edition, only 500 made, gold foil, game used, autographed, bat splinter, patch of jock strap, DNA swab. Whats it worth, Marketing scam"
There are no kids buying these cards that will look back 20 years from now and have the desire to collect the cards of their youth. Those days are gone and can never happen again in this hobby. Adults buy this stuff for it's precived value and monatary value only. Not because of anything the player does on the field or because it is their childhood hero.
Im with Gumby. I can see any of these Modern day Marketed chase cards having that kind of value over the long haul. Modern cards like these are bought mainly for the "Whats it worth factor" Theres no nostalgic, historical or emotional attachment for the player. Once the Speculation period is over they will move on to the next:
"Limited edition, only 500 made, gold foil, game used, autographed, bat splinter, patch of jock strap, DNA swab. Whats it worth, Marketing scam"
There are no kids buying these cards that will look back 20 years from now and have the desire to collect the cards of their youth. Those days are gone and can never happen again in this hobby. Adults buy this stuff for it's precived value and monatary value only. Not because of anything the player does on the field or because it is their childhood hero.
2 cents worth >>
For many modern cards maybe this is true, but its not true for Rookie Cards of future hall of famers...
i collect Pujols because of what he does on the Field (and off it)......ps i dont collect and of his cards other then 2001....i somewhat agree that 2002 cards and beyond of his will lose value...
You are overlooking the importance of THE ROOKIE CARD, maybe the most recognizable term in baseball card collecting...that term will be with us forever!
For many modern cards maybe this is true, but its not true for Rookie Cards of future hall of famers...
i collect Pujols because of what he does on the Field (and off it)......ps i dont collect and of his cards other then 2001....i somewhat agree that 2002 cards and beyond of his will lose value...
You are overlooking the importance of THE ROOKIE CARD, maybe the most recognizable term in baseball card collecting...that term will be with us forever! >>
+1 Agree with this statement 100% (ie Rookies of Future HOF'ers).
The mass production of the 80s to 90s kind of killed the rookies, but the auto rookies, and rare rookies of 90s-current, brought them back alive! The importance of Pujols rookies to the hobby is absolutely real.
Yeah, I agree, Pujols is a great player, but an even better person off the field. That is why I am a fan of his, and will always collect his rookie year autograph cards. One exception is when I bought the 2007 Allen Ginter auto /25. It was too awesome to pass up.
This vintage vs modern debate is almost like the chicken vs egg. The modern collecting game is just different than the vintage game. Today modern collectors can focus on their favorite players and have a lot of options. If you wanted to focus on one player before 1980, you basically only had 1-2 cards every year and that was it.
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete.
<< <i>This vintage vs modern debate is almost like the chicken vs egg. The modern collecting game is just different than the vintage game. Today modern collectors can focus on their favorite players and have a lot of options. If you wanted to focus on one player before 1980, you basically only had 1-2 cards every year and that was it.
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete. >>
With the exception of a guy like Pujols. If you truly know what he is about, you can appreciate him even more. Albert is a good guy, unlike alot of today's star athletes.
<< <i>This vintage vs modern debate is almost like the chicken vs egg. The modern collecting game is just different than the vintage game. Today modern collectors can focus on their favorite players and have a lot of options. If you wanted to focus on one player before 1980, you basically only had 1-2 cards every year and that was it.
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete. >>
I am not sure I understand your point? It makes more sense for someone to consider a modern day player as a hero, than one they never saw play? I never saw willie mays play, but I am sure he was a hero to many of his day. I can imagine the excitement of the famous catch, but never experienced it. To me, it seems to make more sense in collecting players that you witness their skills firsthand. I know I always enjoy watching ICHIRO on the bases, I enjoy watching Adrian Gonzales in the anticipation of the hit, and the MANY others that are respected both on and off the field. TO me, it makes sense to collect BOTH, vintage and current. The vintage cards of those that had significance to the sport, and the modern day cards of those you appreciate their skills and enjoyment they bring to the game.
My point is that you will not see the same level of hero worship as in the past. There are exceptions in every sport, but with today's media coverage the public has become more cynical towards sports in general.
<< <i>My point is that you will not see the same level of hero worship as in the past. There are exceptions in every sport, but with today's media coverage the public has become more cynical towards sports in general. >>
I agree to some extent, but that is mainly due to steroids, and how many recent "heros" have fallen. I believe the sport is in it's infancy stages of cleaning up the mess, and the wounds are so deep, it will take time to heal.
A hero is personal, and should be attributed to one's knowledge and experience, moreso than history. With me personally, I can think of a great deal more recent players as someone i would consider a "hero", than anyone of the past.
I don't idolize any players though...but the closest I would even consider a hero, are those that I have witnessed their skills on the field and the way they carry themself.
Gwynn, Rickey, Ripken, Pujols, Griffey, Bernie Williams, Andruw, Vlad,Omar, Piazza, THomas, Thome, Edgar Martinez,Ichiro, are just a few players I can think of quickly that should earn a spot in everyone's collection. Not to suggest that anyone is worth idolizing, but do earn the sport's respect.
there is a whole generation of collectors, not on this board, but they call themselves CHROMIES...they prospect for the next Pujols, the next big thing, like we did in the 80's with the Ron Jones' of the world.....when they find out that prospecting is not the way to go, they will turn to HOF players and their rookie cards...
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats!
I don't think there is a large contingent of kids in high school or college waiting to enter the hobby. They did not collect when they were younger, so I don't see why they would start collecting after they get older. I started collecting in 1980 and for most of the 1980's, the hobby grew. It started to fall off in the early 1990's and really died in the late 1990's. The only thing that kept the hobby going was the internet.
<< <i>there is a whole generation of collectors, not on this board, but they call themselves CHROMIES...they prospect for the next Pujols, the next big thing, like we did in the 80's with the Ron Jones' of the world.....when they find out that prospecting is not the way to go, they will turn to HOF players and their rookie cards...
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats! >>
I figured that people would come around eventually and stop collecting Albert Belle cards. Ahh...the good ol' Joey Belle days......
Im sure Pujols is a upstanding guy an a fine player. But the fact is that todays modern player will NEVER have the Youth following of the past. They will never be embedded in the social conciousness of the country like players from the 50's, 60's, 70's. Baseball simply does not hold the same important status as it once did. What little youth support there may be today is priced out of the game anyway. Leaving only the adult speculators and adult collectors who have any interest in these players cards. Once the Speculators move on there is even less interest for future support.
HOF? Well thats becoming more and more overrated itself. A few good years does not make a HOF career. The HOF will also continue to erode in status for many of the same reasons. The 40's thru 70's HOFer's will always hold a higher status for the Social impact they had on the country at a time when baseball was like a religon to every kid in America. Songs were wrote, Movies & cartoons were made of the players of days gone by.
Baseball as a whole and Todays Players (through no fault of their own) Simply don't have that social impact.
Card companies may be able to manufacter a limited edition card, But they can't manufacter a historical hero for a game that no lomger holds the historical status it once did.
how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games?
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit....
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter....
<< <i>how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games? Is that all markets or just big markets like New York
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit.... Billionare owners simpley have to upgrade their product if they what to have a survive.
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter.... >>
While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards. They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into serious long term collectors of the future. If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden "Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling.
Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
<< <i>how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games? Is that all markets or just big markets like New York
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit.... Billionare owners simpley have to upgrade their product if they what to have a survive.
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter.... >>
While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards. They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into serious long term collectors of the future. If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden "Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling.
Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
I think the market has a LOT of room to grow. People continue to sell cards short. John's argument above has been said repeatedly for the last 15 years.....and guess what? The market is bigger (dollar wise) then ever....MUCH bigger. I would not be surprised if the eBay sales for one week in sport cards...is more then the entire 1998 collector budget.
Think about this. Most men do not start making good money and start getting stable till they are 35-40. (Most card collectors as men). Now take the late 80s and early 90s. When collectors and cards were everywhere. Well guess what, most of these collectors are now hitting that 35-40 age.
I love 80s cards, but I completely understand the modern shiny era is here and needs to be. The other end of cards, Collectors Choice, UD MVP, Total Total, et al....do not work anymore. No one collects these cards.
Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
I don't think they hobby will be ever as big in terms of broad popularity as it was in the late 1980's through early 1990's. It seemed like everyone collected cards and every store sold them. Plus the current cost of getting started is very high. Before you could buy 10 boxes for $100-$150 and be in the hobby.
Baseball attendance is at all time highs, but that is true for the NBA and NFL as well. Baseball is no longer the #1 sport, the NFL has taken over. It doesn't get the same interest from kids as it did in the past.
bigredd, i think your are "labeling" collectors too much....
dont assume that when a young collector comes into the market, they will be "modern" collectors...thats not always the case...
some enter the market in the vintage area, others become "niche" collectors (just look at the board members here, most collect a few specific things --their niche)...
im not saying all modern is good, most modern stuff is junk, but NOT ALL IS JUNK like some assume....
i dont collect modern....i collect 2001 Pujols, 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders (58% complete), and i dabble in 1914 cracker jacks (10% Complete) and E90-1 AMerican Caramels (10% and just acquired Addie Joss Horizontal).....
i just dont like it when people ASSUME all MOdern is junk or will be worthless....simply not true
<< <i>I don't think they hobby will be ever as big in terms of broad popularity as it was in the late 1980's through early 1990's. It seemed like everyone collected cards and every store sold them. Plus the current cost of getting started is very high. Before you could buy 10 boxes for $100-$150 and be in the hobby. >>
You are correct. The hobby will never be that big again. I do not think you will find one person who thinks otherwise. However, I have never seen anyone state that, and nowhere did I say anything like that, if you were replying to my posting.
My comments were on that the hobby has a LOT of potential growth room in the next few years, due to some of these 80s-90s collectors coming back.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Didn't most people think 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders, 1914 Cracker Jacks, and E90-1 American Caramels were "modern junk" when they first came out too?
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Didn't most people think 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders, 1914 Cracker Jacks, and E90-1 American Caramels were "modern junk" when they first came out too?
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games?
- "Attendance" used to mean people sitting in a stadium. Now it includes the tickets the teams give away to charity a half hour before game time so they can call it a sell out (ask the Maloof's about that here in SacTown). I was at the game at Dodger Stadium, back about 1980, when they hit 3mil for the first time. That was a true "record" because they actually counted people who paid for a ticket AND arrived at the stadium back then! - Corporate dollars buying tickets that go unused or partially used (i.e. people arriving late, leaving early and mostly concerned about shaking a few hands and saying they were at the game). - There are substantially more people in our country than 30 years ago and only a few more teams so raw numbers will be higher.
<< <i> While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards. They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into serious long term collectors of the future. If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden "Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling. >>
I agree with this generalization, in that I do believe the card collecting hobby has shifted from mostly a kid's hobby to an adult hobby. Coin collecting has been mostly an adult hobby for years and years and it hasn't done anything but grow. The cost involved in collecting cards now pretty much guarantees that it is going to cater to an older crowd and I don't see why that is a problem. All collectors are not in it for the "nostalgic feeling of their youth". Although I collected as a kid, that isn't the reason I got back into the hobby as an adult. I collect NFL HOFers, and I wanted to collect/own pieces of each all-time great player. I never saw Red Grange or Johnny Unitas live on the field, but I've watched many highlights of their careers. I also collect autographed items(not auto cards) for the same reason and I think there are many collectors out there just like me.
The same thing that brings coin collectors into that hobby as adults will continue bringing older (more wealthy) crowd into the sportscard hobby as well. Maybe as the card market continues to grow and values continue to rise, the coin collecting crowd will have a viable alternative for those who enjoy sports. I think anyone who is a hardcore sports fan could eventually become a sports card collector in some capacity. And I really don't see sports in the US ever going away. Sports fan+interest in collecting= possible future sportscard collector.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool
<< <i>Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool >>
Go to his website...there you can learn all about grading, like how USA is a good company and all grading is a scam.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool >>
AHHHH,,,,,, And then there's always the name callers. Who always seem to find a way to ruin a perfectly good discussion. Your pointless and ridiculous comments speak for themself as to your limited knowledge and ability to discuss the hobby. It's odd, I don't recall reporting to you what I spent on the 72 Topps Football set. Let me check......................Nope can't find a single card I gave $1,800 for. Hopfully some day you may be able to mature into a respectable collector. Until then, it would be wise not to let your mouth talk faster than your ability to think. I own plenty of Modern cards. Ive gave away more than you will probably ever own over the past 25 years. Here are just a few of my favorite more modern cards I decided to keep. Most are from the complete sets they are in. ENJOY!
I work parttime at Sports Authority....and we are having sales per day higher than last year on same date....eventhough I feel our prices are kind of high. So people are spending their money.
I collect Seattle Pilots autographs, 1969 Topps autographs, Signed Mickey Mantle Home Run History cards and have a JC Martin collection (he was my college Baseball coach) Doug
<< <i>there is a whole generation of collectors, not on this board, but they call themselves CHROMIES...they prospect for the next Pujols, the next big thing, like we did in the 80's with the Ron Jones' of the world.....when they find out that prospecting is not the way to go, they will turn to HOF players and their rookie cards...
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats! >>
In theory your analogy makes perfect sense...and I wish it were true, but I too see a great gap between even being 30 years old and being 25, the 25 year olds didnt collect... I feel like my generation was the last to see/feel the sportscard hobby boom...
I can't speak for the Game Used/auto card generation of today but it just doesnt seem as hot as it once was.
My comments were on that the hobby has a LOT of potential growth room in the next few years, due to some of these 80s-90s collectors coming back. >>
Bingo!! I am now 30, collected mid 80's into 1990 during the boom. I can finally live my childhood dream of buying vintage vintage vintage!
My generation is exactly what is helping fuel the new market and I believe might be the last hoorah unless something drastic happens.
Someone else stated that collecting cards will become a specialized forum just like antique and art, thus categorizing vintage cards as historical value rather than a hobby anymore.
<< <i>Didn't most people think 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders, 1914 Cracker Jacks, and E90-1 American Caramels were "modern junk" when they first came out too?
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
Jason >>
How ironic that would be....things do happen in cycles eh...
Comments
I'm happy for the seller, I can't see any modern cards holding that kind of value over the long term. It's fun while it lasts, though!
2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
Nothing on ebay
there is also a Status Version numbered to 68, and a Aspirations Version numbered to 32, both die cut..
<< <i>Yeah, that's one Pujols card I wish I had gotten back in 2001. That and the Fleer Premium redemption. They just look so sharp. Not paying that much for one now, though. >>
do you mean the Fleer Platinum Redemption? The Lumberjack Auto (Huge Auto on a even Bigger Game Used Bat Slice)
<< <i>I pulled a 2001 Leaf R&S Slideshow auto of Pujols from a case I busted in 2002 and immediately sold it on ebay for less than $300. Wish I had held onto it a little longer. Havent seen one since. >>
ME Either, that is one of the hardest cards to find!! if you ever see another please let me know, that is one of the few 2001 Pujols cards i dont have (yet)...
only 2 low fb bidders abve $220
Im with Gumby. I can't see any of these Modern day Marketed chase cards having that kind of value over the long haul.
Modern cards like these are bought mainly for the "Whats it worth factor" Theres no nostalgic, historical or emotional attachment
for the player. Once the Speculation period is over they will move on to the next:
"Limited edition, only 500 made, gold foil, game used, autographed, bat splinter, patch of jock strap, DNA swab. Whats it worth, Marketing scam"
There are no kids buying these cards that will look back 20 years from now and have the desire to collect the cards of their youth. Those days are gone and can never happen again in this hobby. Adults buy this stuff for it's precived value and monatary value only. Not because of anything the player does on the field or because it is their childhood hero.
2 cents worth
<< <i>Well it certainly is Expensive Junk.
Im with Gumby. I can see any of these Modern day Marketed chase cards having that kind of value over the long haul.
Modern cards like these are bought mainly for the "Whats it worth factor" Theres no nostalgic, historical or emotional attachment
for the player. Once the Speculation period is over they will move on to the next:
"Limited edition, only 500 made, gold foil, game used, autographed, bat splinter, patch of jock strap, DNA swab. Whats it worth, Marketing scam"
There are no kids buying these cards that will look back 20 years from now and have the desire to collect the cards of their youth. Those days are gone and can never happen again in this hobby. Adults buy this stuff for it's precived value and monatary value only. Not because of anything the player does on the field or because it is their childhood hero.
2 cents worth >>
For many modern cards maybe this is true, but its not true for Rookie Cards of future hall of famers...
i collect Pujols because of what he does on the Field (and off it)......ps i dont collect and of his cards other then 2001....i somewhat agree that 2002 cards and beyond of his will lose value...
You are overlooking the importance of THE ROOKIE CARD, maybe the most recognizable term in baseball card collecting...that term will be with us forever!
<< <i>
For many modern cards maybe this is true, but its not true for Rookie Cards of future hall of famers...
i collect Pujols because of what he does on the Field (and off it)......ps i dont collect and of his cards other then 2001....i somewhat agree that 2002 cards and beyond of his will lose value...
You are overlooking the importance of THE ROOKIE CARD, maybe the most recognizable term in baseball card collecting...that term will be with us forever! >>
+1
Agree with this statement 100% (ie Rookies of Future HOF'ers).
The mass production of the 80s to 90s kind of killed the rookies, but the auto rookies, and rare rookies of 90s-current, brought them back alive! The importance of Pujols rookies to the hobby is absolutely real.
Whew!
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete.
<< <i>This vintage vs modern debate is almost like the chicken vs egg. The modern collecting game is just different than the vintage game. Today modern collectors can focus on their favorite players and have a lot of options. If you wanted to focus on one player before 1980, you basically only had 1-2 cards every year and that was it.
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete. >>
With the exception of a guy like Pujols. If you truly know what he is about, you can appreciate him even more. Albert is a good guy, unlike alot of today's star athletes.
<< <i>This vintage vs modern debate is almost like the chicken vs egg. The modern collecting game is just different than the vintage game. Today modern collectors can focus on their favorite players and have a lot of options. If you wanted to focus on one player before 1980, you basically only had 1-2 cards every year and that was it.
Plus I think the days of athletes as heroes is long gone. Personally I wouldn't want my kid idolizing todays athlete. >>
I am not sure I understand your point? It makes more sense for someone to consider a modern day player as a hero, than one they never saw play?
I never saw willie mays play, but I am sure he was a hero to many of his day. I can imagine the excitement of the famous catch, but never experienced it. To me, it seems to make more sense in collecting players that you witness their skills firsthand. I know I always enjoy watching ICHIRO on the bases, I enjoy watching Adrian Gonzales in the anticipation of the hit, and the MANY others that are respected both on and off the field. TO me, it makes sense to collect BOTH, vintage and current. The vintage cards of those that had significance to the sport, and the modern day cards of those you appreciate their skills and enjoyment they bring to the game.
I say, collect it all!
<< <i>My point is that you will not see the same level of hero worship as in the past. There are exceptions in every sport, but with today's media coverage the public has become more cynical towards sports in general. >>
I agree to some extent, but that is mainly due to steroids, and how many recent "heros" have fallen. I believe the sport is in it's infancy stages of cleaning up the mess, and the wounds are so deep, it will take time to heal.
A hero is personal, and should be attributed to one's knowledge and experience, moreso than history.
With me personally, I can think of a great deal more recent players as someone i would consider a "hero", than anyone of the past.
I don't idolize any players though...but the closest I would even consider a hero, are those that I have witnessed their skills on the field and the way they carry themself.
Gwynn, Rickey, Ripken, Pujols, Griffey, Bernie Williams, Andruw, Vlad,Omar, Piazza, THomas, Thome, Edgar Martinez,Ichiro, are just a few players I can think of quickly that should earn a spot in everyone's collection. Not to suggest that anyone is worth idolizing, but do earn the sport's respect.
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats!
<< <i>there is a whole generation of collectors, not on this board, but they call themselves CHROMIES...they prospect for the next Pujols, the next big thing, like we did in the 80's with the Ron Jones' of the world.....when they find out that prospecting is not the way to go, they will turn to HOF players and their rookie cards...
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats! >>
I figured that people would come around eventually and stop collecting Albert Belle cards. Ahh...the good ol' Joey Belle days......
OH...you meant Pujols.
of the past. They will never be embedded in the social conciousness of the country like players from the 50's, 60's, 70's. Baseball simply does not hold the same important status as it once did. What little youth support there may be today is priced out of the game anyway. Leaving only the adult speculators and adult collectors who have any interest in these players cards. Once the Speculators move on there is even less interest for future support.
HOF? Well thats becoming more and more overrated itself. A few good years does not make a HOF career.
The HOF will also continue to erode in status for many of the same reasons.
The 40's thru 70's HOFer's will always hold a higher status for the Social impact they had on the country at a time when
baseball was like a religon to every kid in America. Songs were wrote, Movies & cartoons were made of the players of days gone by.
Baseball as a whole and Todays Players (through no fault of their own) Simply don't have that social impact.
Card companies may be able to manufacter a limited edition card, But they can't manufacter a historical hero for a game that no lomger
holds the historical status it once did.
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit....
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter....
<< <i>how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games? Is that all markets or just big markets like New York
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit.... Billionare owners simpley have to upgrade their product if they what to have a survive.
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter.... >>
While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards.
They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into
serious long term collectors of the future.
If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden
"Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling.
Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John
<< <i>
<< <i>how do you explain the record attendance of MLB games? Is that all markets or just big markets like New York
how do you explain the yankees selling out every game>?
how do you explain all the new Ballparks that are being buit.... Billionare owners simpley have to upgrade their product if they what to have a survive.
you are selling baseball short, it has way more popularity still than you think....
maybe little kids are into yugio and pokemon, but as soon as they outgrow these, they are still "card" collectors and will drift towards baseball players, and modern greats for that matter.... >>
While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards.
They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into
serious long term collectors of the future.
If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden
"Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling.
Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
I think the market has a LOT of room to grow. People continue to sell cards short. John's argument above has been said repeatedly for the last 15 years.....and guess what? The market is bigger (dollar wise) then ever....MUCH bigger. I would not be surprised if the eBay sales for one week in sport cards...is more then the entire 1998 collector budget.
Think about this. Most men do not start making good money and start getting stable till they are 35-40. (Most card collectors as men). Now take the late 80s and early 90s. When collectors and cards were everywhere. Well guess what, most of these collectors are now hitting that 35-40 age.
I love 80s cards, but I completely understand the modern shiny era is here and needs to be. The other end of cards, Collectors Choice, UD MVP, Total Total, et al....do not work anymore. No one collects these cards.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Baseball attendance is at all time highs, but that is true for the NBA and NFL as well. Baseball is no longer the #1 sport, the NFL has taken over. It doesn't get the same interest from kids as it did in the past.
dont assume that when a young collector comes into the market, they will be "modern" collectors...thats not always the case...
some enter the market in the vintage area, others become "niche" collectors (just look at the board members here, most collect a few specific things --their niche)...
im not saying all modern is good, most modern stuff is junk, but NOT ALL IS JUNK like some assume....
i dont collect modern....i collect 2001 Pujols, 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders (58% complete), and i dabble in 1914 cracker jacks (10% Complete) and E90-1 AMerican Caramels (10% and just acquired Addie Joss Horizontal).....
i just dont like it when people ASSUME all MOdern is junk or will be worthless....simply not true
<< <i>I don't think they hobby will be ever as big in terms of broad popularity as it was in the late 1980's through early 1990's. It seemed like everyone collected cards and every store sold them. Plus the current cost of getting started is very high. Before you could buy 10 boxes for $100-$150 and be in the hobby. >>
You are correct. The hobby will never be that big again. I do not think you will find one person who thinks otherwise. However, I have never seen anyone state that, and nowhere did I say anything like that, if you were replying to my posting.
My comments were on that the hobby has a LOT of potential growth room in the next few years, due to some of these 80s-90s collectors coming back.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Didn't most people think 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders, 1914 Cracker Jacks, and E90-1 American Caramels were "modern junk" when they first came out too?
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
Jason >>
great post
- "Attendance" used to mean people sitting in a stadium. Now it includes the tickets the teams give away to charity a half hour before game time so they can call it a sell out (ask the Maloof's about that here in SacTown). I was at the game at Dodger Stadium, back about 1980, when they hit 3mil for the first time. That was a true "record" because they actually counted people who paid for a ticket AND arrived at the stadium back then!
- Corporate dollars buying tickets that go unused or partially used (i.e. people arriving late, leaving early and mostly concerned about shaking a few hands and saying they were at the game).
- There are substantially more people in our country than 30 years ago and only a few more teams so raw numbers will be higher.
<< <i>
While you may be right about the attendance and such. I don't see how this combats the ever shrinking youth collector base for the cards.
They are priced out of a chance to own the cards now and really only want it because of "Whats it Worth" NOT because they have a baseball hero. Sure They will always like to go to the game, But I feel it is more casual entertainment than anything that will forge them into
serious long term collectors of the future.
If the kids are into Pokemon or whatever and have no interest in sports cards as a kid. I find it VERY unlikely they will all of the sudden
"Drift" torwards buying a modern day Baseball or Any Baseball card for that matter. They will chase the cards of their youth for that nostalgic feeling. >>
I agree with this generalization, in that I do believe the card collecting hobby has shifted from mostly a kid's hobby to an adult hobby. Coin collecting has been mostly an adult hobby for years and years and it hasn't done anything but grow. The cost involved in collecting cards now pretty much guarantees that it is going to cater to an older crowd and I don't see why that is a problem. All collectors are not in it for the "nostalgic feeling of their youth". Although I collected as a kid, that isn't the reason I got back into the hobby as an adult. I collect NFL HOFers, and I wanted to collect/own pieces of each all-time great player. I never saw Red Grange or Johnny Unitas live on the field, but I've watched many highlights of their careers. I also collect autographed items(not auto cards) for the same reason and I think there are many collectors out there just like me.
The same thing that brings coin collectors into that hobby as adults will continue bringing older (more wealthy) crowd into the sportscard hobby as well. Maybe as the card market continues to grow and values continue to rise, the coin collecting crowd will have a viable alternative for those who enjoy sports. I think anyone who is a hardcore sports fan could eventually become a sports card collector in some capacity. And I really don't see sports in the US ever going away. Sports fan+interest in collecting= possible future sportscard collector.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool
<< <i>
<< <i>Im not necessarily selling Baseball short. But I am selling short the overhyped, grossly overpriced, Modern card market. They will not suppoet them kind of prices for the long haul. Come on How many limited edition Rookie cards can one guy have? Just MHO.
Im a vintage guy so I don't really belong here. I better get back on my side of the fence. Good Luck
Nice talking to ya.
John >>
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool >>
Go to his website...there you can learn all about grading, like how USA is a good company and all grading is a scam.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
link
<< <i> >>
Don't worry...I think anyone who pays tons of money for "low pop" PSA graded 1972 Topps football is an idiot.
You obviously know nothing about the modern card market, so why bother making asinine comments about it? You don't see me on the Rare Records forum because I know absolutely zilch about rare records. Better to not talk about something you know nothing about that pipe up and make yourself look a fool >>
AHHHH,,,,,, And then there's always the name callers. Who always seem to find a way to ruin a perfectly good discussion.
Your pointless and ridiculous comments speak for themself as to your limited knowledge and ability to discuss the hobby.
It's odd, I don't recall reporting to you what I spent on the 72 Topps Football set. Let me check......................Nope can't find a single
card I gave $1,800 for.
Hopfully some day you may be able to mature into a respectable collector. Until then, it would be wise not to let your mouth talk faster than
your ability to think.
I own plenty of Modern cards. Ive gave away more than you will probably ever own over the past 25 years.
Here are just a few of my favorite more modern cards I decided to keep. Most are from the complete sets they are in. ENJOY!
Doug
link
<< <i>there is a whole generation of collectors, not on this board, but they call themselves CHROMIES...they prospect for the next Pujols, the next big thing, like we did in the 80's with the Ron Jones' of the world.....when they find out that prospecting is not the way to go, they will turn to HOF players and their rookie cards...
as the collector gains experience (along with age and more funds) they usually turn to HOF players and Vintage cards....
those people exist, its just that many are in high school or in college and dont have the funds to collect more expensive pieces...
But they will come around eventually, and that is when they will look for Great players, not prospects---enter Albert , griffey, and other "modern" greats! >>
In theory your analogy makes perfect sense...and I wish it were true, but I too see a great gap between even being 30 years old and being 25, the 25 year olds didnt collect...
I feel like my generation was the last to see/feel the sportscard hobby boom...
I can't speak for the Game Used/auto card generation of today but it just doesnt seem as hot as it once was.
CU Ancient Members badge member.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
My comments were on that the hobby has a LOT of potential growth room in the next few years, due to some of these 80s-90s collectors coming back. >>
Bingo!! I am now 30, collected mid 80's into 1990 during the boom.
I can finally live my childhood dream of buying vintage vintage vintage!
My generation is exactly what is helping fuel the new market and I believe might be the last hoorah unless something drastic happens.
Someone else stated that collecting cards will become a specialized forum just like antique and art, thus categorizing vintage cards as historical value rather than a hobby anymore.
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<< <i>Didn't most people think 1911 T201 Mecca Double Folders, 1914 Cracker Jacks, and E90-1 American Caramels were "modern junk" when they first came out too?
Boy how times have changed...lol...As years go by the value of current modern cards WILL change because the history of that player is not yet fully written. Some will end up being worthless, some will end up being priceless. Those who choose correctly will not only be able to collect the cards they enjoy, but will also reap the benefits of appreciating value. Or at least their grandkids will...
Jason >>
How ironic that would be....things do happen in cycles eh...
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