Options
How to be the safest with paypal? Please contribute.
Allen
Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
Ok so after a disaster of a transaction as a buyer, that I should finally get my money back on tuesday as long as the guys e-check clears, I have been reading a bunch on paypal. I also sold a large lot yesterday that I state in my listing that the address must be confirmed, I get a $5K+ payment from a guy with an ebay address in Florida wanting it shipped to an unconfirmed address in Vegas. I canceled the e-check and called the guy and he actually lives in Florida and is in the process moving to Vegas. He was very nice and is going to try and get his Vegas address confirmed or send a cashiers check. So that one should work out ok.
ANYWAYS- I try to follow paypal to the letter to be covered. I will tell you what all I do and I ask that you contribute any other suggestions for maximum coverage from getting burned as a seller.
Do's-
1. I require a confirmed address.
2. I ship everything with paypal's multiorder shipping so I get delivery confirmation and it is already saved in the paypal transaction if there is a problem.
3. I use signature confirmation on all items over $250, as paypal requires.
4. I ship very expensive items with Registered Mail.
What else should I be doing? Anything I should avoid? Any input is appreciated.
ANYWAYS- I try to follow paypal to the letter to be covered. I will tell you what all I do and I ask that you contribute any other suggestions for maximum coverage from getting burned as a seller.
Do's-
1. I require a confirmed address.
2. I ship everything with paypal's multiorder shipping so I get delivery confirmation and it is already saved in the paypal transaction if there is a problem.
3. I use signature confirmation on all items over $250, as paypal requires.
4. I ship very expensive items with Registered Mail.
What else should I be doing? Anything I should avoid? Any input is appreciated.
0
Comments
NEVER accept PP on a local pick-up.
NEVER accept PP for any amount that you are not prepared to refund.
NEVER communicate with a SNAD-filer outside of the PP dispute console.
He's gone thru 30+ buying IDs, files never received....gets $ + items.
Creates new name and repeats. I hope he gets runned over by the Beck's beer truck.
<< <i>Ok so after a disaster of a transaction as a buyer, that I should finally get my money back on tuesday as long as the guys e-check clears, I have been reading a bunch on paypal. I also sold a large lot yesterday that I state in my listing that the address must be confirmed, I get a $5K+ payment from a guy with an ebay address in Florida wanting it shipped to an unconfirmed address in Vegas. I canceled the e-check and called the guy and he actually lives in Florida and is in the process moving to Vegas. He was very nice and is going to try and get his Vegas address confirmed or send a cashiers check. So that one should work out ok.
ANYWAYS- I try to follow paypal to the letter to be covered. I will tell you what all I do and I ask that you contribute any other suggestions for maximum coverage from getting burned as a seller.
Do's-
1. I require a confirmed address.
2. I ship everything with paypal's multiorder shipping so I get delivery confirmation and it is already saved in the paypal transaction if there is a problem.
3. I use signature confirmation on all items over $250, as paypal requires.
4. I ship very expensive items with Registered Mail.
What else should I be doing? Anything I should avoid? Any input is appreciated. >>
Those are all very good points, but I would NEVER accept paypal over an amount I wouldn't be willing to lose.
All the buyer has to say is that he received an empty package,
see thread about this a few days ago.
Paypal sucks, but it is almost all we have for the time being. It's more like gambling, every sale you make and accept Paypal is like rolling the dice, and hoping for the best.
I think you got it covered well. I do all those same things myself.
Also what storm said. Couldn't agree more.
I also agree with Torc. Even though I cover my a$$ on all paypal deals, I'm waiting for the day I get totally screwed over by them. I know it's bound to happen sooner than later even though I do my due diligence on every transaction.
I really don't think there's a way to eliminate all the possibilities of potentially getting the hose job by paypal/ebay. The crooks know more angles than we've ever thought of.
Rich
When buying a larger ticket item and using Paypal, use your credit card through Paypal so you have them backing you also. There are crooked sellers out there as well as buyers. Even if the seller is not crooked, but Paypal sides with them anyway, you can always contact your credit card company for a refund. They will almost always back you even if Paypal does not.
Brian
That's exactly right and a key point many sellers don't know. Also, if you accept PayPal as payment and you or anyone delivers the item to the buyer, even when you get a signature, if that delivery information isn't available from an online website like the post office, UPS, FedEx, DSL, etc...then PayPal will automatically side with the buyer.
PayPal has to be able to track the delivery information online, or they will not honor any claim from the seller - that's what a PayPal rep once told me over the phone when I asked what would happen if I delivered an item to a buyer who happened to live close by to me, and I got the buyer's signature - it would all be useless if the buyer filed a claim stating he didn't receive the item as far as PayPal is concerned. Naturally I could still have pursued it in Small Claims Court if there was a problem, but I just decided to use UPS for the delivery even though the buyer was less than a mile away.
Ripken, Brooks & Frank Robinson, Old Orioles, Sweet Spot Autos, older Redskins - Riggins, Sonny, Baugh etc and anything that catches my eye.
My ghetto sportscard webpage...All Scans - No Lists!!! Stinky Linky
<< <i>We've heard so much about sig. confirmation. I have heard that they can not view ins. signatures on line. It's actually getting confusing. Can they view the signature from a registered mail on line? >>
I have heard it has to be online also. Anyone know if that is true? Also what service must you use to get an online sig?
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot believe that one was left out, until now.
IT is probably the MOST important defense.
ALWAYS sweep the PP account into a checking account EVERY night.
PP is ALOT more willing to listen to the seller's story, when the cash
is a bit harder to grab.
NOTE: "Item Specifics" are now being used successfully to defend PP SNAD-claims.
Make sure that part of the EBAY listing form is filled out correctly.
You sell an item on ebay for over $250. Okay, you make insurance optional. The buyer chooses insurance. Fine, right?
Then you ship the item USPS with Signature confirmation and insure it. You purchase your postage online thru paypal. Well you know what happens on the label? It says 'insured' but that's it. So I went and asked my postal clerk can you guys tell if this package has sig. confirmation on it too and he says there's no way to tell. I'm like WTF? I then asked if it's scanned in at delivery, does the driver know it needs to be signed for also? He couldn't answer this simple question and he's been a postal clerk for over 10 years.
I know under $200 insured does not need to be signed for, but over $200 does. However if the postage on the package doesn't indicate signature conf. along with the insured amount, how does the postal delivery person know this?
We need our postal expert to chime in here and explain this.
Re: Registered Mail /Online Viewing of Rct/Sigs
(They willalso email you when items are delivered. This keeps you from having to constantly check.)
When you’re sending valuable or irreplaceable items through the mail, protect them with Registered Mail™.
Items you send with Registered Mail are placed under tight security from the point of mailing to the point of delivery, and insured up to $25,000 against loss or damage. And you can verify the date and time of delivery and the delivery attempts online.
Learn about detailed Features and Fees for Registered Mail.
You can use Registered Mail with:
First-Class Mail® - Letters, envelopes, and small packages weighing 13 ounces or less.
Priority Mail® - Cost effective delivery in 2-3 days to most locations.
You can combine Registered Mail with the following Extra Services:
Delivery Confirmation™ – Provides date and time of delivery or attempted delivery.
Signature Confirmation™ – Provides date and time of delivery or attempted delivery, the name of the person who signed for the item, plus signature proof of delivery upon request.
Collect on Delivery (COD) - Allows the postage and price of an item to be collected from the recipient by the USPS and given to the mailer.
Return Receipt - Provides a green postcard with the recipient’s actual signature by mail or a proof of delivery letter arriving as a PDF attachment that includes an image of the recipient’s signature by e-mail.
Restricted Delivery - Confirms that only a specified person (or authorized agent) will receive a piece of mail. Only available with Certified Mail, Insured Mail over $200, or Registered Mail.
<< <i>"Remove money from your paypal account - do not leave a balance in your paypal account . especially if you sell as they will freeze it if a chargeback occurs...."
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot believe that one was left out, until now.
IT is probably the MOST important defense.
ALWAYS sweep the PP account into a checking account EVERY night.
PP is ALOT more willing to listen to the seller's story, when the cash
is a bit harder to grab.
NOTE: "Item Specifics" are now being used successfully to defend PP SNAD-claims.
Make sure that part of the EBAY listing form is filled out correctly. >>
I can see this to be valid but if your a steady seller you're going to be getting paypal payments all the time. Paypal will simply put the amount of the charge back as a negative until you have the funds to cover it. Then as more payments come in, they (paypal) take the funds from you.
So really unless you close your paypal account, or don't get many paypal payments, I don't think clearing your account will do much but prolong the eventual paypal funds removal on charge backs claims/disputes.
Unless there's some new paypal procedure that's been rolled out in regards to charge backs that I'm not aware of, I don't think sweeping your paypal balance into your checking/savings account will help much.
<< <i>Here's another strange one:
You sell an item on ebay for over $250. Okay, you make insurance optional. The buyer chooses insurance. Fine, right?
Then you ship the item USPS with Signature confirmation and insure it. You purchase your postage online thru paypal. Well you know what happens on the label? It says 'insured' but that's it. So I went and asked my postal clerk can you guys tell if this package has sig. confirmation on it too and he says there's no way to tell. I'm like WTF? I then asked if it's scanned in at delivery, does the driver know it needs to be signed for also? He couldn't answer this simple question and he's been a postal clerk for over 10 years.
I know under $200 insured does not need to be signed for, but over $200 does. However if the postage on the package doesn't indicate signature conf. along with the insured amount, how does the postal delivery person know this?
We need our postal expert to chime in here and explain this. >>
Thats why you should not use Paypal to print postage go to the PO for packages like this.
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's another strange one:
You sell an item on ebay for over $250. Okay, you make insurance optional. The buyer chooses insurance. Fine, right?
Then you ship the item USPS with Signature confirmation and insure it. You purchase your postage online thru paypal. Well you know what happens on the label? It says 'insured' but that's it. So I went and asked my postal clerk can you guys tell if this package has sig. confirmation on it too and he says there's no way to tell. I'm like WTF? I then asked if it's scanned in at delivery, does the driver know it needs to be signed for also? He couldn't answer this simple question and he's been a postal clerk for over 10 years.
I know under $200 insured does not need to be signed for, but over $200 does. However if the postage on the package doesn't indicate signature conf. along with the insured amount, how does the postal delivery person know this?
We need our postal expert to chime in here and explain this. >>
Thats why you should not use Paypal to print postage go to the PO for packages like this. >>
I think that's good advice. You end up saving a little by getting postage thru paypal online, but it's not worth the risk maybe. It's nice to have booth the insured and sig. conf. receipts in your hand with the postal bump on them.
///////////////////////////////////////////////
It can buy a little time for the call center folks in Bangladesh and India to listen to and investigate your story.
Leaving big money in PP overnight is a terrible idea.
Leia...
I am not saying to have a zero balance. The account will replenish daily on sales.
Auto-pays get covered, or you can make one-time payments.
Now that my money in non-collectible categories is being held in their MM, I am
defenseless against CRIMINALS. (I have a different account for collectibles money.)
I want the PO stamp showing acceptance on my DCs.
(This does nothing to protect you from INR fraud, but
it allows you to tell your buyer that they can track the
item as it moves in their direction. Unscanned PP DCs
are NOT trackable while they move.)
MANY clerks refuse to scan the PP DC. (PP knows this
and has now made a page where you can print out
a bulk sheet of all the barcodes in your batch. MOST
clerks will scan the sheet; some will not. The station
manager will order the clerk to scan the sheet, if you
insist.)
<< <i>I just believe it would raise more flags contantly moving money from Paypal. They can stop the transfers as well should they feel the need to. >>
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
They can stop any transfer until it shows as "completed" in the console.
I have moved money out everyday for years. Never had any flags, until
EBAY went on the warpath against electronics and designer fashion.
(BUY.com is going to be the default seller of those items on EBAY.)
I have many thousands in PP MM and am not afraid of them, BUT I know that
sellers are more likely to have their side of the story heard if the money is
harder to grab.
<< <i>i know not to accept paypal for pickup for items sold on ebay. how about accepting paypal for items sold outside of ebay but picked up? does it make a difference? i heard that there is less recourse for the buyer, therefore safer for the seller in this situation. not sure, just what i heard. thoughts? >>
To the best of my knowledge it doesn't make any difference. PayPal rules are PayPal rules regardless of whether or not bought off ebay.
<< <i>
<< <i>i know not to accept paypal for pickup for items sold on ebay. how about accepting paypal for items sold outside of ebay but picked up? does it make a difference? i heard that there is less recourse for the buyer, therefore safer for the seller in this situation. not sure, just what i heard. thoughts? >>
To the best of my knowledge it doesn't make any difference. PayPal rules are PayPal rules regardless of whether or not bought off ebay. >>
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you have a Business Account that is set-up for walk-in/retail/restaurant,
INR is not grounds for a dispute/claim.
PP has maxed-out at EBAY. Essentially, they have - or will have - ALL EBAYers soon.
PP is moving into the real world to compete with the clearing done by MC/VISA.
Their sales force is pounding the bricks everyday. If you have a BM location, they
have called on you.............OR, you will see them soon.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>You can get scammed by a buyer even if you follow all the rules. All the buyer has to do is go back to their credit card company, say the item was not as described, and send something back to you (even an empty package). Good luck getting PayPal to back up a seller to the buyer's credit card company.
Nick >>
Most sellers accept this as a risk, it can happen in most .where Credit Cards are involved. Sometimes you just have to accept the risk and not worry about it.
Collect Auctions
Just curious how rampant the problem is
<< <i>
<< <i>You can get scammed by a buyer even if you follow all the rules. All the buyer has to do is go back to their credit card company, say the item was not as described, and send something back to you (even an empty package). Good luck getting PayPal to back up a seller to the buyer's credit card company.
Nick >>
Most sellers accept this as a risk, it can happen in most .where Credit Cards are involved. Sometimes you just have to accept the risk and not worry about it. >>
There's a much higher level of risk when you have to rely on PayPal to forward your response to the credit card company. I have talked to a number of sellers in different categories of merchandise who believe that PayPal doesn't actually send anything on the seller's behalf to the credit card company - one of whom was told by a PayPal representative "Why should we take your side? You could be lying."
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Here's another strange one:
You sell an item on ebay for over $250. Okay, you make insurance optional. The buyer chooses insurance. Fine, right?
Then you ship the item USPS with Signature confirmation and insure it. You purchase your postage online thru paypal. Well you know what happens on the label? It says 'insured' but that's it. So I went and asked my postal clerk can you guys tell if this package has sig. confirmation on it too and he says there's no way to tell. I'm like WTF? I then asked if it's scanned in at delivery, does the driver know it needs to be signed for also? He couldn't answer this simple question and he's been a postal clerk for over 10 years.
I know under $200 insured does not need to be signed for, but over $200 does. However if the postage on the package doesn't indicate signature conf. along with the insured amount, how does the postal delivery person know this?
We need our postal expert to chime in here and explain this. >>
If you print your own label and use delivery confirmation and insurance it will print out one of 2 ways -
$200 or less (not requiring signature for delivery) it will say DELIVERY CONFIRMATION above the bar code. Your buyer might be mad and think you sent it uninsured. If they complain I can link you to that part of the online mail handbook.
Over $200 (requiring signature) it will say INSURED above the bar code. If I get a parcel with online postage and it says INSURED I know I have to go to the house to deliver it.
Hope that helps
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's another strange one:
You sell an item on ebay for over $250. Okay, you make insurance optional. The buyer chooses insurance. Fine, right?
Then you ship the item USPS with Signature confirmation and insure it. You purchase your postage online thru paypal. Well you know what happens on the label? It says 'insured' but that's it. So I went and asked my postal clerk can you guys tell if this package has sig. confirmation on it too and he says there's no way to tell. I'm like WTF? I then asked if it's scanned in at delivery, does the driver know it needs to be signed for also? He couldn't answer this simple question and he's been a postal clerk for over 10 years.
I know under $200 insured does not need to be signed for, but over $200 does. However if the postage on the package doesn't indicate signature conf. along with the insured amount, how does the postal delivery person know this?
We need our postal expert to chime in here and explain this. >>
If you print your own label and use delivery confirmation and insurance it will print out one of 2 ways -
$200 or less (not requiring signature for delivery) it will say DELIVERY CONFIRMATION above the bar code. Your buyer might be mad and think you sent it uninsured. If they complain I can link you to that part of the online mail handbook.
Over $200 (requiring signature) it will say INSURED above the bar code. If I get a parcel with online postage and it says INSURED I know I have to go to the house to deliver it.
Hope that helps >>
+1
Yes, if it is insured for 200+ a signature is required. If the postal clerk you asked didn't know, its because he is a clerk not a delivery guy..
As part of our security measures, we regularly screen activity
in the system.
During a recent screening, we noticed an issue regarding
your account.
Resolution Center: Your account access has been limited.
Click here to remove the limitation
Thank you for using PayPal!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved.
PayPal Email ID PP6221
How should I handle this one?
Buyers feedback score - 464
Positive Feedback (last 12 months): 99.2%
Buyer sends me $215.00 for a BIN card (Instant PayPal payment)
I listed the item with free shipping, insurance, and signature confirmation.
Buyers question: Hello,I won your Rickey Henderson psa 9 card.
Would you be so kind to ship it to my wifes work at **** Los Angeles Ca. 90069, please let me know.
I am out of the country and did not see that you were sending delivery confirmation and I am trying to avoid the problem.
My Response: I would have no problem sending the card to your wife's work, but according to the Paypal Seller Protection Policy which I listed below, I will only be protected if the item is sent to your verified PayPal address "Attn. Sellers: You must ship to the address shown below to be protected under PayPal's Seller Protection Policy." In addition to that, I am not sure if the post office would allow someone to sign for the item other then yourself. When do you think you'll be back in town?
Buyers Response: I will not be back in the U.S. until June 30. Are you insuring the
card? If so you could send it my wifes work please, **** **** c/o Melissa *****
Let me know what you think, I wont hold you responsible through paypal as long as we both
have some protection through post office insurance. Thanks for getting back to me.
Just be sure you follow all the other basics.
If you send it to him under paypal requirements and his wife signs for it, he can't file a chargeback without calling his wife a thief.
Don't send to an unconfirmed address - Ever!
<< <i>If you send it to the same name and confirmed address as the buyer's paypal account, his wife will receive the mail and will receive the USPS form 3849 to pick up the insured package. No problem at all for her to pick up any of his mail at USPS or at home as long as he hasn't put a mail restriction on file and you don't send the parcel restricted delivery.
If you send it to him under paypal requirements and his wife signs for it, he can't file a chargeback without calling his wife a thief.
Don't send to an unconfirmed address - Ever! >>
In other words, don't send it to his wife's work? I'm sure her last name being different then his, doesn't help either.
Send to the confirmed address. The only way she can get the 3849 slip is from her mailbox.
Then she has to go to USPS to get it.
Then she has to sign her name. Some USPS check ID, some don't.
USPS keeps a copy of the signature.
If Mike Kelly's name is on the mailbox, and Debby Smith comes in to pick up a parcel with the 3849, they will usually get the parcel. If the clerk is in doubt he can go back to the mail case for that route and there is normally a delivery card. That card lists who gets mail at that address. If she is listed she can have the package.
Don't send it to an unconfirmed address and to a wrong last name. If you want to do that, I'll send you my name and address and you can send it to me free instead of sending it to them free.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should a seller EVER ship to an unconfirmed addy. (PSers are now exempt from that caveat.)
The buyer's "I won't hold you responsible" lingo is far too sophisticated for my comfort.
RANT ON: Buyers need to get it through their heads that they are NOT doing
me a favor to buy something from me. I don't need their money; I want
their money ONLY if the deal is profitable for me and painless for both of us.
rant off