Card Sellers: Beware Of "Empty Box Returns"

storm888 · May 20, 2008 12:46PM

Empty Box Returns

WinPitcher · May 20, 2008 12:57PM

Yeah I was reading that forum earlier this evening.

Steve

Leiascards · May 20, 2008 1:01PM

That scam is as old as the Paypal sellers protection policy.

storm888 · May 20, 2008 1:07PM

"That scam is as old as the Paypal sellers protection policy. "

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Yup.

And, almost NOBODY on the CLCT boards is remotely aware that it could happen to them.

TheVon · May 20, 2008 2:27PM

It appears that eBay removed the forum. How about the Cliffs Notes version?

storm888 · May 20, 2008 2:36PM

"Cliffs Notes version?"

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Crook files a SNAD or an INR with PayPal.
Crook returns empty-box to seller.
PayPal refunds the crook.
Crook gets free item.

Justintime · May 20, 2008 3:41PM

Great and now the scammer can neg the buyer and the buyer can only leave a pos. Ebay is leaving sellers positivly screwed

storm888 · May 20, 2008 3:57PM

<< <i>Great and now the scammer can neg the buyer and the buyer can only leave a pos. Ebay is leaving sellers positivly screwed >>

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EBAY is tonight removing all positives that contain negative comments.
They replace the negative comment with:

"This comment was removed by EBAY. Learn More."

That will become the "marker" for scumbag buyers.

If I get a neg/neut, I will NOT leave ANY FB. I will simply respond factually below the NEG.
Giving a scumster a POS will ONLY help him/her.

BUT, many sellers will now make their de facto NEG:

This comment was removed by EBAY. Learn more.

Leiascards · May 20, 2008 4:01PM

If I get a neg/neut, I will NOT leave ANY FB. I will simply respond factually below the NEG.

Thts why I stated I was not changing my feedback one bit.. If they are going to neg me for no reason there is no way in he77 that they are getting a pos from me.

70chip · May 20, 2008 7:00PM

Thread has been removed by fleabay. Wish I had seen it, would like to know the nitty gritty of it.

jay0791 · May 20, 2008 8:56PM

could someone describe what this empty box returns is?? I may have had one....a package was returned by the post office to me empty.
I filed a po claim.....but also sent buyer a similar card right away. so far I'm out $150 and its been a very long time for the po. How long does these po claims take to resolve.

Ladder7 · May 20, 2008 9:26PM

Explanation. Get card in mail, steal card. Then ship an empty box to the seller using insurance or delivery conf. Seller complains to no avail. Sneaky buyer, "Hey, I returned the thing, see my receipt?". Seller's funds removed from Paypal.

Moral of the story, DO NOT USE PAYPAL if you do, empty the kitty immediately after payments. Also, for those with empty accounts, next time money goes in, PP takes it immediately, like a mean wife on payday.

jay0791 · May 20, 2008 9:41PM

thanks for the explanation

Morgoth · May 20, 2008 10:54PM

Ebay is also trying to push paypal as the only payment form you can use on it's sites in other countries, is that actually legal in the US? I used to love paypal but now a MO or Check seems more reliable.

Leiascards · May 20, 2008 11:09PM

If you sell on Ebay due to the new rules and such regarding UPIs Paypal is the only payment that is safe to accept. Ebay is saying right now in the very near future that negs left by non payers will be removed if the seller can PROVE the item was never paid for. Only way way to prove this would be if Paypal was the only method accepted. Its just a matter of time before all sellers are required to accept Paypal.

The scam though is a buyer buys an item, files a SNAD complaint with Paypal, Paypal tells them to send it back. They do so with DC when it shows delivered Paypal will give them their money back. Only protection a seller has is if they know an item is coming back and think it may be happening would be to go to the PO and open it in front of the postmaster. If the box is empty or not the same item the seller can then file a complaint and the postmaster can change the DC status from delivered to refused, and hopefully Paypal will not have refunded yet.

This is not a new scam I heard of it about 4 or 5 years ago, except it involved sending back a rock.

zep33 · May 20, 2008 11:35PM

Here at work about 10 years ago we had a customer that owed us money but wouldn't pay. At some point, someone from his shop called and ordered some brake rotors so we sent a couple of bricks UPS COD for the amount they owed us. Worked like a charm LOL

jlzinck · May 21, 2008 1:08AM

<< <i>Here at work about 10 years ago we had a customer that owed us money but wouldn't pay. At some point, someone from his shop called and ordered some brake rotors so we sent a couple of bricks UPS COD for the amount they owed us. Worked like a charm LOL >>

Note to self:
Don't order from Zep's company.

ndleo · May 21, 2008 2:36AM

It is obvious that ebay wants to force out smaller or part-time sellers. If you just list a few items on auction and don't do the listing upgrades, ebay doesn't make a lot of money off you. I just calculated my fee % for April and it came in at 7.7%, mainly because several expensive items were paid for by mo or e-check.

I think these changes are part of a larger plan to introduce paid seller memberships or force sellers into setting up a store.

After I deplete my current inventory, I will probably stop selling all together and just buy. Right now it is just not worth it for part-timers like me. All I need is a buyer to scam me on a $500+ card and there goes any profit for the month.

I will probably go over to Naxcom a list my higher value cards. They force the buyers to purchase insurance, which makes it safer for me. The fees usually are in the 8-11% range. It takes a little a longer, but I tend to get more money for my cards.

NCDOLFAN · May 21, 2008 6:19AM

As a buyer, I have used the paypal system correctly for several years to cover my @#$ from sellers who mis-represent card condition. I finally found a seller that is trying to use a empty box type excuse with paypal not to refund payment. This could all be solved if rejected items were sent to paypal first for inspection and then forwarded to the seller.

storm888 · May 21, 2008 7:00AM

"...This could all be solved if rejected items were sent to paypal first for inspection and then forwarded to the seller. .."

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Great. The people at their call-centers in Bangladesh can
inspect everything and make a decision.

Anybody who visits their Cali campus will know immediately
that the folks who work at PP are a clueless bunch.

The best solution for sellers is to NEVER accept PayPal for
any amount that you are not willing to lose.

However, NPBs who lie and claim they paid, could be stopped
if PayPal was the only payment method allowed. This may be
how PP sneaks the coming scheme by the DOJ.

Card Sellers: Beware Of &quot;Empty Box Returns&quot;

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Card Sellers: Beware Of "Empty Box Returns"