'64 Big-em's, like we need another post.

BobS · May 16, 2002 1:36AM

As I get closer and closer to finally registering my '64 Giants set, I've noticed something about the sets already registered. NO ONE BESIDES GEMMINTMAN has a single 10 listed. Come on, who's holding out? Could it really be true that he does hold em' all? If not, why would anyone pay sooooo much coin (latest Torre-10 as an example) for the 10's and not even have a set listed? BTW, I'm collecting only 8's and the occassional 9 myself, these 10's are crazy right now. Gemmint - honestly do you think the investment in a 10 set will ever be returned to the price you're shelling out for now?

thegemmintman · May 16, 2002 1:57AM

Thank goodness another '64 Topps Giants post has been started. It's been like over 48 hours since the last one, and I was starting to get withdrawal symptons

.

BobS - I'm quite confident that there are at least a few10's registered in the sets listed for the Giants. You just can't see them because the owners chose not to show them. Also, I want to assure you that I don't own all of 10's. As far as whether the 10's will hold their value over the long run, only time will tell.

I'm looking forward to you registering your TG's set. There are a lot of us now who have recognized how awesome these cards are. We ought to come up with a name for our club. I mean the FAB FIVE can't have all the fun.

mikeschmidt · May 16, 2002 2:14AM

Bob S-

There are quite a few 10 owners who:

A) Collect players but not the set. Think Mickey Mantle

Collect the set but have no plans to ever register it. Consider so examples you've read here recently about bids going sky-high for the cards that a registered user still needs

C) Heck -- there might even be some people out there who just like PSA 10's.

I've talked to way too many set collectors who don't have nor do they want any PSA 10's in their collection for a variety of reasons. Heck -- one of our hobbies supercollectors, Brian Seigel, likes to collect PSA 8's, and does not feel that 9's (not to even mention 10's) are generally not worth the premiums they garner because the difference in condition is often so slight....

Too much noise, not a popular enough set to believe that all the best examples have fallen in the hands of set collectors. Check out some of the Player set registries in a few months -- and I believe that you may find quite a few of the HOF PSA 10's residing there...

BobS · May 16, 2002 2:58AM

Nice comments guys.

Gemmint I was afraid you would think I was being critical of your cash outflow decisions. It's really just the opposite. I'm jealous. To collect the "best out there" of anything is quite admirable, courageous, and not to mention risky. You are a true collector. It will still be sometime before I register my set, as I'm <15% complete now. I want to be the guy who comes out of nowhere and "Bam", three other guys are suddenly not feeling so special anymore. I thought I read somewhere that Vargha has a term for this?

pinhigh · May 16, 2002 3:03AM

Thank goodness I didn't start this thread <------- Gemmint, if you were unsure, this is a joke.

BobS - Don't let Gemmint fool you, he has all the 10's.

BobS · May 16, 2002 3:09AM

P. Is your set the "great giants set"?

She's back, this time with the giants.

thegemmintman · May 16, 2002 3:17AM

Pinhigh, I know you're kidding. Except for that one exchange we had, I know we're just having fun here

.

BobS - Pinhigh is a big liar

. I don't have all of the 10's. He beat me out on a Gibson PSA 10 a few weeks back, and he also won some common PSA 10 too. I've seen other collectors win 10's too. Let's face it, he wants to be the next Gemmint. A very worthwhile endeavor I might add. Anyway, believe nothing he says. He just wants my organization to crumble.

BigKidAtHeart · May 16, 2002 4:36AM

hey guys,
I can't believe you would have another 64 TG's conversation without me!

bobS - I have NO 10's at all and unless the ones I recently submitted come back a 10
(no real chance of that) then I never will!

I just like the set and am collecting in 7 and up (and hope to eventually upgrade to 8 and up)
~jeff

qualitycards · May 16, 2002 5:43AM

<< <i> We ought to come up with a name for our club. I mean the FAB FIVE can't have all the fun >>

GEMMINT - Face it, no club is needed. Its you and the rest of us catching up to you

...jay

pinhigh · May 16, 2002 7:24AM

BobS - My set is not the Great Giants Set. My set is registered under my name - David S. Green. I don't even know who the collector of the Great Giants Set is but it seems he may have been running under the radar for some time. Either that, or he is getting back some pretty good submissions or Gemmint is his connection. You never know, it may be Gemmint himself, beginning to register the multitude of sets he has. And don't believe him when he says I have 10's. I have no idea what he is talking about. Look at my GPA and you can see that I don't have any of those mighty 10s. Just look at the last 10 that ended . . . we know who has them all! (Well, maybe you should believe Gemmint

)

Gemmint - I don't want to be you. I will admit that I want to beat you, but only so that I can have these cards in the highest grade possible. I would be happy if we had the same set rating, but we all know that is impossible with a card hoarder in the mix (I won't say any names).

We do already have an organization for collectors of this set. It is called Keeping '64 Topps Giants Collectible Club but I still haven't received your application. Must have been lost in the mail.

Since we are on the subject of this wonderful set of cards. . . has anyone else noticed the hike in Aaron prices? They were selling for a while at around $200 but the past two have been nearly double that. I think there are a lot of newer collectors of this set. Also, if you don't know, there should be a PSA 10 Spahn card up for auction soon. I wonder who will hoard, I mean, win that card?

thegemmintman · May 16, 2002 7:48AM

"Keeping '64 Topps Giants Collectible Club" - that's no name for a club. That's only a club for socialist Gemmint haters.

I think I know who the Great Giants Set is. It was someone under a different name who used to show his grades. One day I might tell you

.

BTW, I'm thinking "Gemmint Philanthropic Society" for a club name. After all, I do let other collectors win some cards once in a while

.

waitilltheytrytosell · May 16, 2002 9:13AM

Current pop shows only 40 total 10's with only 25 unique ones.
2 ---- KEN JOHNSON ---- 1
6 ---- RON HUNT ---- 1
10 ---- JIM BUNNING ---- 1
12 ---- AL KALINE ---- 1
24 ---- FRANK HOWARD ---- 1
26 ---- JOE TORRE ---- 1
32 ---- CAMILO PASCUAL ---- 1
35 ---- DAVE WICKERSHAM ---- 1
36 ---- JOHNNY CALLISON ---- 1
37 ---- JUAN MARICHAL ---- 1
38 ---- HARMON KILLEBREW---- 1
40 ---- DICK RADATZ ---- 1
43 ---- TOMMY DAVIS ---- 1
44 ---- TONY OLIVA ---- 1
48 ---- CARL YASTRZEMSKI ---- 1
53 ---- JUAN PIZARRO ---- 1
58 ---- RON SANTO ---- 1

9 ---- ROCKY COLAVITO ---- 2
16 ---- DEAN CHANCE ---- 2
50 ---- BROOKS ROBINSON ---- 2
54 ---- LEON WAGNER ---- 2
55 ---- ORLANDO CEPEDA ---- 2

31 ---- WARREN SPAHN ---- 3
41 ---- BOB GIBSON ---- 4
29 ---- FRANK ROBINSON ---- 6

Total ---- 40

ngfred · May 16, 2002 9:16AM

What's the SMR on the commons PSA 8? (Don't have a price uide with me)

thegemmintman · May 16, 2002 9:28AM

Ngfred - the SMR doesn't list the commons for some reason. The prices vary greatly with the common 8's, but the "plentiful" ones sell around $25.

pinhigh · May 16, 2002 1:37PM

Seriously, I think that the only thing that could hurt Gemmint's "investment" in the PSA 10 cards is future submissions. This set was fairly plentiful, from what I understand, and many of these cards were barely handled. I imagine that there are a good many PSA 10 worthy cards out there yet to be graded. What is amazing to me is that there are so few 10's currently. I would have expected that there would have been more of them, especially since this set has become fairly collectible. I do believe that there have been and always will be some very difficult cards to get in high grade from this set. The Luis Aparicio card gained it's first 9 last week and there are still two other cards whose highest grade is PSA 8, understanding that these cards have seen very few submissions when compared to others. Clemente, Kaline, and Mantle account for over 30% of submissions currently. Yet, less than 1% of the cards currently submitted have qualified for a grade of PSA 10. I think that you will see a ton more 9's in the future.

Any ideas on why the Gibson and F. Robinson cards have gotten more 10's than the others?

mikeschmidt · May 16, 2002 11:28PM

Pinhigh:

Two thoughts:

1) Some cards seem to get PSA 10 more easily than others. Though no clear reason is available -- it probably has to do with placement on the sheet, and the respective cutting/printing process that was available at the time. Every single year has cards that seem to be more available in PSA 9 and/or PSA 10 than other cards. With 1955 Bowman, it is Al Kaline in PSA 9. With 1957 Topps, it is Les Moss in PSA 10. With 1968 Topps, it is Don Drysdale in PSA 10. With 1964 Topps Giants, it is Gibson and Robinson.

2) Yes -- there many be a ton more of ungraded cards out there. But a few thoughts. 9s are relatively easy to find -- 10s are not. As it stands right now -- there are approximately 24 unqualified PSA 9's for every PSA 10. And approximately 1 in every 180 cards graded grade out as PSA 10. As time goes on -- most of the "best" examples will have been graded -- leaving more commons in 8s and 9s to be graded (e.g. as time passes -- the ratio will become lower than 1 in 180). With over 7,000 cards from this set graded -- the number of finds will continue to decrease -- and the best raw examples will continue to get graded.

Hope this makes sense to you -- my mind is a little warped sometimes.

pinhigh · May 17, 2002 1:09AM

Schmidty - Your post makes perfect sense and I tend to agree. I believe that the high number of PSA 10's for the Gibson and F. Robinson cards could be due to placement on the sheet, but I don't understand the logistics of it. These cards were printed 63 to a sheet, correct? If that is the case, where would cards #29 (F. Robinson) and #41 (Gibson) be placed on the sheet? Also, it gets tougher when you factor in the fact that there are seven short-printed cards. I just can't gain an understanding of how these cards were printed, where the Gibson and F. Robinson cards would be placed on the sheet, and how to factor in the short-printed cards.

I also agree that the percentage of 10's, relative to the number of submissions, will decrease as time goes on. But, I have to believe that there are more 10's out there. Lord knows that there is no way you can pry them from Gemmint's hands.

thegemmintman · May 17, 2002 2:30AM

Pinhigh - I think the more meaningful question is how many 10's are available to the public that are not in Gemmint's evil hands? That percentage must be a staggeringly low one

.

Also, I'm sure that you will be able to put a lovely set of 9's together in time

.

BobS · May 17, 2002 3:25AM

Gem- You going to the National? What do you look like?, what car will you be driving?, what clothes will you be wearing? Oh, and if by some "un-planned" misfortune you must sell the 10's to the public to pay for car repairs, medical bills, bail, etc., you can contact me to strike a deal. Just kidding

thegemmintman · May 17, 2002 3:43AM

BobS - you sound like Pinhigh with all of those questions

.

waitilltheytrytosell · May 17, 2002 6:56AM

A large number of these cards are also being graded by dealers who were lucky enough to have big piles of them when it became profitable to start grading them. What they have are the remnants of many years of buying and selling them. So, you would naturally have more of the guys remaining that sold slowly, and fewer of the guys that were the more popular sellers. Fewer remaining, means fewer to choose from for grading. When sold back then, they would be dispersed all through collections, or autographed, and cared for differently than if they had remained in the dealer's storage boxes. When it comes time for grading, the dealer sends in the best stuff he has, and is going to have less of those more popular cards coming back in the higher grades. Take a look at who's on the list above, and who is missing. This isn't going to be the only reason for numbers being out of whack, but it will have an influence.

pinhigh · May 18, 2002 1:37AM

Gemmint - My guess would be that there are six or seven of the available PSA 10's that are not in your possession and are in the hands of probably two or three other collectors besides yourself. Also, I'd be very happy with a nice set of 9's but we know that I am doing better than that now, don't we? Finally, questions are the path to knowledge. With the great set that you have compiled, I would expect you to have more knowledge concerning the set itself and be able to answer my questions concerning card placement during printing.

thegemmintman · May 18, 2002 2:07AM

Pinhigh -

"My guess would be that there are six or seven of the available PSA 10's that are not in your possession and are in the hands of probably two or three other collectors besides yourself."

Answer: If you say so.

"Also, I'd be very happy with a nice set of 9's but we know that I am doing better than that now, don't we?"

Answer: If you say so.

"Finally, questions are the path to knowledge. With the great set that you have compiled, I would expect you to have more knowledge concerning the set itself and be able to answer my questions concerning card placement during printing."

Answer: Help out Dr. Gemmint Evil's arch enemy and Founder of the Socialist Organization that restricts capitalism with crucial information on the set? I always did like your sense of humor.

qualitycards · May 18, 2002 3:01AM

PINHIGH - When will you learn? GEMMINT will not reveal to you, me or anyone his set contents. My set is fully listed in the middle of the pack for all to see, but the mysterious GEMMINT man prefers the shroud of silence on his set...jay

'64 Big-em's, like we need another post.

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