Grading weight, are obverse and reverse considered 50-50?

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ambro51
ambro51 Posts: 14,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
Since we all look at the obverse of the coin, and *then* at the reverse, does PCGS give both sides of the coin exactly 50-50 weighting in grading?

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  • sonoranmonsoon
    sonoranmonsoon Posts: 2,078 ✭✭
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    I do not know the answer for sure, but have always heard the obserse ussually carries a little more weight.
  • Stooge
    Stooge Posts: 4,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    HRH once said that a coin will get the highest grade that the worst side is ie: You cannot have a coin with an MS68 obverse with an MS65 reverse. The coin would then grade MS65.

    There was also talk about a "duel" grade but that has not come to fruition.

    Later, Paul.

    Later, Paul.
  • sonoranmonsoon
    sonoranmonsoon Posts: 2,078 ✭✭
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    Good to know Paul. Your answer makes more sense to me than what I had heard.
  • Dan50
    Dan50 Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭
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    Pauls right... The worst side is the highest grade you can score.
    Dan
  • centmaster
    centmaster Posts: 504 ✭
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    So why do they average out album toned Lincolns as RB where the obverse is full red while the reverse is brown?
  • Dan50
    Dan50 Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭
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    color is more designation related, than grade related.
    AS... MS64grade/designation RB
    Dan
  • Sunnywood
    Sunnywood Posts: 2,683 ✭
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    The obverse gets much higher weight. I had a discussion about this with HRH, when I showed him an 1894 Morgan dollar in a PCGS MS63 holder. The coin had an unusual mismatch in quality. HRH and I agreed that it was a 62.5/67. Yep, an 1894 dollar with a superb gem MS67 reverse ... but the obverse was below a 63. We both thought it was about a 62½. So I asked him, if it's a 62.5/67, how do you end up with a 63? Shouldn't it at least be a 64? HRH replied that a reverse that is better than the obverse can only add at most a half a point to the grade. Even in the case of this 1894 dollar, with a spectacular reverse, the grade got bumped only half a point. (HRH said the reverse of that dollar might likely be the finest reverse known on any 1894 dollar ... oh well, a lot of good that did !!!)

    So, if R>O, then the grade = O+½

    Conversely, when the reverse is worse than the obverse, the reverse will pull the grade down. Looking at it the other way, a good obverse can add to the grade of a bad reverse ... as much as a full point, maybe even more, as I recall David saying. So a coin that is 64/62 might get into a 63 holder, while a 62/64 would not. A 65/62 would still be a 63. A 62.5/64 could get into the 63 holder, but not a 62/64. A 62/67 is only a 62, but a 67/62 is at least a 63, maybe more.

    So if O>R, then the grade = R+1, or maybe more.

    Best,
    Sunnywood



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  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Generally, what Sunnywood says is exactly right. I still recall, however, the 1873 trade dollar with an MS67 obverse and an MS60 reverse ... in an MS64 holder. image

    [the reverse had a huge cut above the eagle - a 'probably should have been bodybagged' type of cut - MS60 technically, I suppose]
    Early Dollar Set
  • Steve
    Steve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
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    When coin collectors try to justify grades (which are then supposed to justify price)I just laugh and say that a particular coin is worth what a buyer and seller agree to make the transaction at. After the transaction is made, then the buyer will probably say the coin is in a higher grade than the seller will say. It is all just human nature. Steveimage
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  • Fairlaneman
    Fairlaneman Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    When it comes to early date Mercury dimes the 1% side can drag the grade down a point, IMO, if it is fully struck.

    Ken
  • ambro51
    ambro51 Posts: 14,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The one coin I seen recently that made me question the obverse/reverse grading was a Confed half restrike on ebay. Very clearly, the reverse (csa shield) was MS, but the obverse was an EF ANACS. This coin was "made" from a circulated piece, and should have been graded on the shield only, but the seated liberty dragged the whole piece down. It went unsold. I would have bought it if I felt that PCGS would up the grade....based on the shield. I know this coin is a true exception to any rule, since it was not struck front/back at the same time. Seeing ANACS lay weight to the seated liberty, with the MS reverse going along for the ride....made me question any regrade possibility. A 10K gamble....... http://cgi.ebay.com/1861-Confederate-Restrike-50c-ANACS-EF-45-RARCOA_W0QQitemZ230214495074QQihZ013QQcategoryZ11970QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
  • WaterSport
    WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There is an exception to this rule..1922 Cents with weak rev strike. The obv is what is graded.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • jdimmick
    jdimmick Posts: 9,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have been to a few seminars hosted by NGC graders, and they indicated basically what sunnywood stated, that a much nicer reverse can help a borderline coin make up a 1/2 point to the next grade, but hurts more than it helps if it lower than the obverse.

  • bushmaster8
    bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616 ✭
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    In general, i always figure that the obv is weighted around 60-70%. Particularly for coins with a portrait obv.

    And I agree w/ sunhinewould as well!
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