Nice RARE autograph book RUTH real??

sayheykid54 · December 25, 2007 3:18AM

I was watching this auction on Ebay. What do you think the odds are that the buyer will actually receive the book??

The book is loaded with the autographs of Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb, Bill Hewitt(rare), Hugh Duffy, and many many more.

Here's a link Autograph book

WinPitcher · December 25, 2007 3:23AM

I dunno the answer to your question i do know that if it does it sold for an incredably low price that is for sure.

If legit that item would have done far better thru a mastro type auction house.

Steve

WinPitcher · December 25, 2007 3:25AM

If legit that is a perfect example on how not to sell an item on ebay.

Steve

TNTonPMS · December 25, 2007 3:34AM

That has to be the neatest Ted Williams signature I have ever seen !

I could never buy something like that without actually seeing the signatures up close though .

jrinck · December 25, 2007 3:50AM

FAKES, or at least I'd be suspicious.

Look at the Hugh Duffy auto. Under the auto slip, on the paper from the book, you see some handwriting in pencil, presumably from the kid who owned the book. The "B" looks a lot like the first "B" in Babe Ruth. It's like whoever wrote those notations was simultaneously practicing for the Babe forgery.

Unless it was the Babe who forged all the sigs.

Allen · December 25, 2007 4:01AM

They never mention who the signatures are, they just show pictures. I think they found an old Autograph book signed by a bunch of his schoolmates and decided to paste some signatures in the back. Most Signed letters players sent back through the mail have their name typed above or below the signature as is standard letter practice. The paper is just WAY too white and bright. The kid would sure have an ear for baseball to know how good Ted Williams was by listening to the radio in 1941. If the kid was from WV it is unlikely he ever saw any of them play and would only hear baseball over the radio.

sayheykid54 · December 25, 2007 4:43AM

I was thinking of possibly bidding on it but decided against it. If the book is real is worth considerably more than what was paid for it. I believe the auto's to be genuine. What convinced my not to bid was the seller has no recent feedback, private auction, no location listed, and only takes money orders as payment.

I emailed the seller to see if I could pick-up and pay for the item in cash. He responded that the payment was to be sent first with instructions to pick-up following. If I was the seller and I knew it was real I would have no problem accepting cash as payment.

Nuyauwka · December 25, 2007 6:00AM

Sayhey, I was interested in some of your 69 and 70 Basketball from the submission you posted . My email is Nuyauwka@aol.com if you might notice this in this thread. I [posted in the thread you started on 12/11 but the thread got buried.

stevek · December 25, 2007 8:00AM

Only 398 hits, and also the idiot doesn't even put "baseball" or "Babe Ruth" in the auction description. If it's real, the buyer stole it.

Could be right - it may be a hijacked account scam. If I couldn't pick it up, I definitely wouldn't send payment...that's an easy call.

TNTonPMS · December 25, 2007 8:05AM

<< <i>They never mention who the signatures are, they just show pictures. I think they found an old Autograph book signed by a bunch of his schoolmates and decided to paste some signatures in the back. Most Signed letters players sent back through the mail have their name typed above or below the signature as is standard letter practice. The paper is just WAY too white and bright. The kid would sure have an ear for baseball to know how good Ted Williams was by listening to the radio in 1941. If the kid was from WV it is unlikely he ever saw any of them play and would only hear baseball over the radio. >>

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That is a Good Ruth sig , that don't mean it isn't one of those repligraph things like what I got for my son .

I swear to God those damn signatures , it is very hard to tell they are not real , that is kinda scarey if you ask me , that is what I meant about havin to actually see it , there aint no way in hell I would bid on that .

And that Williams, I have never seen a Williams that neat ,

you could be right Mr Allen .

I'd never let that go for that price either .

stevek · December 25, 2007 8:11AM

Also - Just that "flowery" description of the item - just the way it's worded and the type of words, is usually the way a foreigner would do it, especially like many of those Nigerian scams I've seen with the way they describe items. They can't help it - sort of like speaking with an accent when learning a language. Even if the primary language is English, different countries speak and write it differently...use differing slang, word connotations, etc.

Here is the description - I mean Americans really don't talk or write like this.

"In 1941, an enterprising teenager in Martinsville, West Virginia embarked on a determined odyssey in collecting autographs. The young man's name was Doug McKown, and it seems that his requests (nearly all by mail) reliably struck a receptive chord. He compiled this remarkable array in a standard, laminated cardboard album (6" x 4-3/4") with the usual pastel pages. The first several of these pages are crowded with autographs of school mates, relatives and such. Principally, young McKown was a baseball fan, and clearly, he held superstars of yore in the highest esteem. For most of these autographs, he clipped the signatures from returned stationery and then responsibly pasted them into the album, using the front and reverse of the pages.In most instances, these cuts were placed on clean, unlined paper and are, today, probably safely extractable, if so desired, for display mounting. Progressing, I discover four pages with multiple autographs. These latter tend to be journeymen players and fairly identify themselves with particular teams of the mid-40's. Though principally baseball, he demonstrates in this album a keen interest in early football stars, and along the way I find a few general celebrities. As affirmed by a profusion of notations, most of these signatures were attained in 1941 and '42. In all, there are 83 different autographs (with three duplicates) in these pages. Of these, four are either not legible or their import is unknown. All but one (as indicated below) were signed in ink. Please,ask me your questions.Shipping cost is $7."

The Private ID for the bidders is a big red flag as well.

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stevek · December 25, 2007 8:16AM

<< <i>Only 398 hits, and also the idiot doesn't even put "baseball" or "Babe Ruth" in the auction description. If it's real, the buyer stole it.

Could be right - it may be a hijacked account scam. If I couldn't pick it up, I definitely wouldn't send payment...that's an easy call. >>

<<< Only 398 hits, and also the idiot doesn't even put "baseball" or "Babe Ruth" in the auction description. >>>

But I've observed many scammers intentionally do this - they know ebay is so big that people interested will find the auctions, and all it takes is two dedicated bidders to run up the price, thinking the seller is a babe-in-the-woods. This seller doesn't appear to me to be a babe-in-the-woods. I could be wrong but in any event it wouldn't matter, because if I couldn't pick it up, then I ain't paying, and so what I might get a neg - to not blow $4,000 I can get a neg.

goose3 · December 25, 2007 8:21AM

were "Post-its" around in the 40's?

RipublicaninMass · December 25, 2007 10:39AM

he spelled sincerely WRONG

Allen · December 25, 2007 11:37AM

<< <i>there are 83 different autographs (with three duplicates) in these pages. Of these, four are either not legible or their import is unknown. >>

Sound like broken english that did not know to use the word importance.

There is no way this is legit.

stevek · December 25, 2007 11:38AM

Also - it's not rare to find old family "autograph" albums such as these at flea markets or antique stores. Especially from the 40's as that's not that old at all. I've seen "autograph" albums such as these much older than that, of course with autographs I've never heard of, probably family members and local folks, selling for a $20 ask price. Based on the description, the seller could have easily bought one of these cheap, and added the phony baseball cut autographs on a number of pages. With a little bit of work, turn $20 into $4,000 - another fine auction on scambay.

mtcards · December 25, 2007 4:44PM

He incredibly knew which autos to show in pictures, but he didnt know to even pay the 50 cents for a subline to list them?

Also, I agree with the Ted Williams assertion. In 1942 when it looks like some of the autos were taken, no one could have predicted Teds career since he had only played 3 at that time.

fandango · December 25, 2007 10:39PM

the autos sure look real....

the only think i dont like is the walter johnson underline.....the underline does not fit with the other TTM autos and makes me a bit suspicious of the story....was Ruth still signing that clean in 1941?

that shold have gone for 10,000 minimum...

could it be from a naive seller who didnt know the proper channels?

we may never know

BobaFett72 · December 25, 2007 10:48PM

no recent feedback from the seller, seemed a bit suspicious.

WinPitcher · December 25, 2007 11:37PM

Ted Williams by 1942 had already 4 straight 100 rbi seasons, and had already batted 400! So it is safe to assume that by then he was well known and the tpe of career he would have, Ruth's sig was still clean during the early 40's well. Are these sigs legit? who knows.

The Williams auto shown there is very similar to the one I have on a 49 Red sox ball.

If legit the seller took a bath.

IMO it is some sort of scam but like the above poster said we will never know.

Or will we?

Steve

MooseDog · December 26, 2007 2:57AM

At least from the pictures, all of the autographs pictured look good to me. Ruth in later years often signed "Sincerely" and though it looks like two R's if you look closely there is actually and E and R that he has a way of writing similarly.

The Johnson, Evers, Duffy, Cobb are absolutely good and consistent with vintage TTM signatures. I would have loved to add that Evers to my collection.

The price realized was decent for the buyer not good, not great but he got some nice sigs.

MooseDog · December 26, 2007 3:04AM

Should add on the Williams, I'm not much of an expert on really old signatures, but I do recall an article long ago that studied his sig and noted dramatic changes post-war.

stevek · December 26, 2007 5:39AM

Yes - it's not an "automatic" throwout - but again for emphasis...if you're gonna buy an item such as this, with red flags such as this, if you don't pickup the item in person and inspect it first before paying, then you may want to consider yourself a glutten for punishment - potentially $4,000 worth of punishment!

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baseballfanatic · December 26, 2007 6:01AM

The guy has had NO activity in almost a year and a half (after no activity for 4 years) and comes on lists 1 high ticket item in a private auction?

Im almost positve the entire auction and description were stolen from somewhere because I've seen it before.
Why take the time to show every big name star and then not list even 1 in the description? Because its the best way to fly under the radar.

The seller wouldnt have cared if it sold for 500.00 because the buyer is guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Another example of pulling a scam to perfection.

Nothing was left on the table. The table was wiped clean.....

WinPitcher · December 26, 2007 9:59AM

I agree. I doubt very much it was legit.

my point was if they were legit.........

moosedog, 4k if legit is a great buy. the auction was for 80+ autos

The Ruth (If legit) is worth that alone I think

Steve

stevek · December 26, 2007 10:15AM

I tried Googling various parts of his description and couldn't find that anywhere, so possibly the description is all his and wasn't copied from an auction site or elsewhere.

Interesting when I first posted, the auction had ended, he had 398 hits and now he's got close to 600 hits. LOL

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MinorLeagueSource · December 26, 2007 11:10AM

the book is real. i also believe it was bought in a maestro auctio a couple months ago. also theres no way the buyer is actually going to get it for that much. its woth about $14k

Nice RARE autograph book RUTH real??

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