Bidder wants to retract and doesn't want the card

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 4:02AM

I have a potential issue brewing. In one of my auctions, the leading bidder asked a question about the centering of the back of the card. I told him the truth that it is badly centered. He replied that he tried to retract the bid and doesn't want the card if he wins. He could get outbidded but what if he doesn't? What would you do?

Leiascards · September 23, 2007 4:08AM

You can tell him he needs to retract it himself, which he may not do. He could still win the card then you got a possible NPB and a possible neg situation.. Its your call. Personally I would tell him to retract it himself. He should have asked questions before bidding.

vintagetoppsguy · September 23, 2007 4:10AM

Your auctions have less than 12 hours so he can't retract his bid - you will have to cancel his bid yourself. I would just go ahead and do it - it might save you some headaches.

Leiascards · September 23, 2007 4:15AM

That is true about the 12 hour rule. You might go ahead and cancel.. Be sure to BBL him as well.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 4:15AM

Thank you, I was able to cancel his bid. I had not known or used that feature before.

Bthiet · September 23, 2007 5:51AM

did you state that it was badly centered in the description? cause if you didn't, then the bidder may have a reasonable cause for wanting to not win.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 6:15AM

No, I never describe the back, as do most sellers. I do, however, state that if they want to see a scan of the back, they only need to ask. When I bought this card last year, seeing the back like it was never bothered me as a buyer.

jimq112 · September 23, 2007 6:27AM

It's not real honest to not mention that the back is "badly centered" and then use the disclaimer for no returns on graded cards. I don't buy a lot of 1957 cards but I keep a list of dealers I won't buy from and you're now on it.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 6:43AM

Sorry, I purposely do not try to be dishonest. I truly had not seen the back until it was asked about today, let alone scan them ahead of time. Nearly all of the graded cards I bought for this set were bought without knowing what the backs looked like, nor were they mentioned in most of the auctions. I can't change the description now.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 6:47AM

Besides, you know PSA basically ignores the back when grading, right or wrong. I have PSA 7 and 8s where the backs are miscut. But I will include scans next time.

nam812 · September 23, 2007 6:47AM

<< <i>When I bought this card last year, seeing the back like it was never bothered me as a buyer. >>

<< <i>I truly had not seen the back until it was asked about today. >>

Well, which one is it?

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 6:55AM

You know how it is when you get a card. You look at the front, glance at the back and then for me, put it on my display and never pay attention to the back again. Even when I scanned it, I didn't notice it.

You know, I brought up a simple question and got a good solution, which I was happy to do. Now I am being singled out as a bad guy.

jimq112 · September 23, 2007 8:14AM

Steve, you're not a bad guy or being singled out as a bad guy. But if I bought a card for over $100 and saw an off center back that I hadn't been told about, I might not want the card. Then hearing I couldn't return it would get us both a negative. I try to avoid things like that so when I see things like that I make a note to avoid them.

Doesn't make you a bad guy but like many have said here it doesn't make sense to sell an expensive card and not scan the back. Costs the seller money almost every time.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 8:28AM

I am making the auctions for next week and I am putting in a description of the backs. Lessons learned. It's funny, in all of the years I have been selling star cards, this is the first time this has been brought up.

mealeworm · September 23, 2007 10:23AM

I wouldn't cancel the bid. PSA settles for 90/10 on a PSA9. How bad can it be??? You stated a scan of the back would be provided if requested, and he bid and didn't ask. I would say the blame falls on him. besides it is only the back

Dave

TNTonPMS · September 23, 2007 10:46AM

Interesting and I just learned something today too .

I had never even thought about the centering on the backs of the cards or if it even would affect the grade ?

vintagetoppsguy · September 23, 2007 11:07AM

<< <i>It's not real honest to not mention that the back is "badly centered" and then use the disclaimer for no returns on graded cards. I don't buy a lot of 1957 cards but I keep a list of dealers I won't buy from and you're now on it. >>

With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. I have been selling on eBay for a little more than 5 years, selling graded and ungraded cards. I never post a scan of the back especially on graded cards and the issue hardly ever comes up. No, I have nothing to hide - it just saves money on listing fees and saves time by not having to make an extra scan.

Buc was selling graded cards! PERIOD! If PSA thought the card was so bad, it would have had a qualifier. He does not owe the bidder a detailed description of the card within the listing. That is what he paid PSA for. If it didn't fall within PSA's guidelines, then it would have had a qualifier.

Buc offers the following statement in all his listings, "If you would like to see a scan of the back, please let me know." The bidder only inquired about the back after the bid was already placed. I think he made the right decision by cancelling the bid to avoid any headaches, but dishonest??? NO!

Edited for spelling

rube26105 · September 23, 2007 11:22AM

ive never thought much about back centering of cards either, but looking at some of mine, i guess i can see where front are ok and backs are oc, or vice vera esp on 70s stuff

rbdjr1 · September 23, 2007 11:59AM

I've sold thousands of cards on ebay, most were graded! I offered return privleges!

Mostly show only scans of front. In seven years, only had few PSA cards returned to me for a refund!

And just a few inquiries about the reverse.

You did the right thing!

rd

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · September 23, 2007 1:53PM

I recently bought a BGS 9.5 card. Only pic of front provided. Lesson learned toask first.

Buccaneer · September 23, 2007 11:57PM

What's wrong with that back? It looks to be about 60/40? I/we are talking about PSA 8s that are beyond 90/10 to 100/0 that PSA routinely ignores.

bullrat · September 24, 2007 1:18AM

I can't say that I really worry about the back of graded cards. Have never scanned the back of a graded card when selling - only scan backs of higher priced raw cards. You made the right call by canceling the bid - were only asking for trouble if you hadn't.

originalisbest · September 24, 2007 1:29AM

I think Steve did nothing wrong here (and I don't think anyone is saying he did.) It's just a good reminder to ask about backs if the card's important enough to you - I always ask if it's, say, a Mantle I'm interested in and looks fairly nice from the front.

Steve's right in that PSA gives a lot less weight to back centering than I do - and as such, I either live with possibly getting a potentially O/C back (if the card's fairly cheap) or if it's pricier I'll ask for a pic of the back.

GOODLIEU · September 24, 2007 3:08AM

There are some really good points being addressed here that directly effect all of us who use this forum. With that said the reality is that 95% or higher of the graded cards sold on the Bay by reputable sellers do not include scans of the backs of the cards and probably never will. In my opinion the Grading company must be held more accountable for the grades they assign these cards and the sellers should be cut some slack because they are trusting a professional third party to accurately grade them and take them out of the equation of giving their opinion of what they think it would grade raw.

jimq112 · September 24, 2007 4:06AM

I just got this card back and I plan on listing it on ebay even though it's not worth much. Would you be disappointed if it came to your mailbox and I hadn't mentioned the back? It's a cheap card but would you be disappointed? I bought it raw, saw it at the last minute, no time to ask for a scan.

originalisbest · September 24, 2007 4:40AM

Yes I wouldn't be happy with it, but, because it was cheap, I'd chalk it up to "stuff happens" and go look for another one.

bishop · September 24, 2007 4:42AM

Very intersting topic/issue

originalisbest · September 24, 2007 4:46AM

It is an interesting topic - who says no one looks at the back. Many times I've seen decent from the front '57 Mays cards that are way too o/c on the back for my taste.

rube26105 · September 24, 2007 4:51AM

i thought psa did back and front when they considered the grade?do they just do the fronts?,that bench is way oc on back,great front though,i guess one outweights the other?ive never looked at backs of my slabbed ones to be honest, i will now lol
randy

GOODLIEU · September 24, 2007 4:53AM

The other side of your question was were you disappointed that it came back a straight nine from PSA in the first place. Again from what I've seen you are a straight up guy and a knowlegable collector so you are doing the right thing with fellow collectors but my point is why does the Professional Grading service get a pass in these situations when you and all of us utilize their service to do the personal grading of our cards for sale or our sets we collect. I say graded cards are what their graded and the seller should not be held 100% responsile for what the third party grading company's deemed the grade to be.

jimq112 · September 24, 2007 5:18AM

<< <i>The other side of your question was were you disappointed that it came back a straight nine from PSA in the first place. Again from what I've seen you are a straight up guy and a knowlegable collector so you are doing the right thing with fellow collectors but my point is why does the Professional Grading service get a pass in these situations when you and all of us utilize their service to do the personal grading of our cards for sale or our sets we collect. I say graded cards are what their graded and the seller should not be held 100% responsible for what the third party grading company's deemed the grade to be. >>

I doubt if I'm disappointed that it came back a 9, but I would consider it a low end 9 with good eye appeal. It looks nice on the front and to somebody who doesn't care about the back it's a great card. The guy who wants a high end 9 would maybe buy the card as a filler but he'll want to replace it some day with a nicer one. It's probably 90/10 on the back so it meets psa guidelines for a 9, but it's still a low end 9.

When/if I list it on ebay it will have a scan of the back and it will probably bring less money, but the buyer will know what he's getting. It's not a big deal $$ wise on this card, but if it was a 1969 lou brock psa 9 and the back looked like this somebody would be disappointed.

GOODLIEU · September 24, 2007 5:28AM

JIMQ you just proved my point you are a straight up guy and want to be fair with the other collectors you deal with who have a "Collectors Eye" like yourself. As I said from the beginning why does the Card Grader get a pass and you end up as the saying goes "Holding the Card" or in this case the financial loss of the grading and resale because of their Grading system. I really dont have a answer to this problem but I feel its a lot to put on sellers when they are looking to sell these cards.

Buccaneer · September 24, 2007 10:16AM

In going through some of the back, I see some 95/5 PSA 8 and 100/0 PSA 7.

Bidder wants to retract and doesn't want the card

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