I committed a collecting No-No today...

BunchOBull · August 25, 2007 9:44AM

I purchased 2 autos off of eBay with no COA, from a new seller. Hopefully this goes well, it was worth the shot for me because they look as authentic as they come to me, and if real, are fairly early examples. If not, I'm only losing $30.

Rose and Thomas Autos

Ross

PasadenaMudSlide · August 25, 2007 9:54AM

Rose looks good.

BunchOBull · August 25, 2007 9:57AM

I thought so too. It's the Thomas I am most interested in, but by the look of the image and the sharpie, the Rose is probably an early to mid-1980s example. The Thomas signature has rookie season written all over it. I don't own one that clear and that large, so I took the gamble.

onlyanumber · August 25, 2007 10:22AM

I'll second the Rose. I have one from '86 that looks identical. Thomas I'm not so sure about--atleast when it comes to his signature over the last 10 years. One from his rookie season I've never seen

Jdurg · August 25, 2007 11:04AM

Good luck with those! It's always a bit unsettling purchasing an autograph without a COA or without seeing it signed yourself. I've only bought one autograph without having it signed in front of me, and that was a Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams photo signed by both. I was a bit uneasy about it and had it posted here where a lot of people said it looked fake, and I also posted it at other boards where it was split right down the middle. I sent it out for authenticity checking and was told "It's just as likely to be real as it is to be fake". So for now, I'm just considering it "real" and keeping it with my other Sports Memorabilia knowing that I probably won't be able to sell it.

Currently, my prize autographs are signed baseballs I got of Tim Raines, Frank Howard, David Cone, and Phil Rizzuto. (Each on their own ball). Rizzuto's was the very first professional ballplayer I ever got an autograph of. I was 10 years old at the time and he was signing at my local mall. I went to the signing wearing a #10 Yankees Jersey and remember Scooter saying "Holy Cow, he's even got my Jersey on. I'll tell ya, wow!" He was such a nice guy. So sad to know that he's no longer with us. He truly made me feel good by talking to me like a regular human being and not some P.O.S.

Rogermnj · August 25, 2007 11:07AM

Its probably all of the authenticators spreading statistics out there that 80% of auto's are fake...

BunchOBull · August 25, 2007 11:22AM

<< <i>I'll second the Rose. I have one from '86 that looks identical. Thomas I'm not so sure about--atleast when it comes to his signature over the last 10 years. One from his rookie season I've never seen >>

During his rookie season, even into his first couple of full seasons, Frank signed his full signature, even adding an "E." for Edward from time to time. The "35" in this example is very indicative of an early Thomas signature as well.

BunchOBull · August 25, 2007 11:26AM

<< <i>Good luck with those! It's always a bit unsettling purchasing an autograph without a COA or without seeing it signed yourself. I've only bought one autograph without having it signed in front of me, and that was a Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams photo signed by both. I was a bit uneasy about it and had it posted here where a lot of people said it looked fake, and I also posted it at other boards where it was split right down the middle. I sent it out for authenticity checking and was told "It's just as likely to be real as it is to be fake". So for now, I'm just considering it "real" and keeping it with my other Sports Memorabilia knowing that I probably won't be able to sell it.

Currently, my prize autographs are signed baseballs I got of Tim Raines, Frank Howard, David Cone, and Phil Rizzuto. (Each on their own ball). Rizzuto's was the very first professional ballplayer I ever got an autograph of. I was 10 years old at the time and he was signing at my local mall. I went to the signing wearing a #10 Yankees Jersey and remember Scooter saying "Holy Cow, he's even got my Jersey on. I'll tell ya, wow!" He was such a nice guy. So sad to know that he's no longer with us. He truly made me feel good by talking to me like a regular human being and not some P.O.S. >>

That's some nice signed material and a cool Scooter story. These are fairly low risk autos, it's not like I have a major investment in them, so I'm not even going to worry about authentication. They're just going to sit in my collection anyway. If I did sell them, I'd have them authenticated first, but I honestly just want them for my collection.

Allen · August 25, 2007 3:41PM

I think both are fake, but if they are your only out $30 bucks so its not too bad.

grote15 · August 25, 2007 5:42PM

I think both are fake, but if they are your only out $30 bucks so its not too bad.

How can you tell, other than the fact that it's not certified? The Rose looks legit to me, and he signed tons of things throughout the 80s.

Allen · August 25, 2007 5:50PM

They do not look that good. They might be legit, but I don't think so- the Rose, to me just looks like it does not flow and the slant and length of the sig seem odd. I did not research a bunch of Rose sigs, just saying my first impression was that they are not real. I could be wrong.

Allen · August 25, 2007 6:00PM

I usually think of Rose's auto being smooth and the loops being wide enough that the gaps in letters are visible. The one he bought all the letter gaps are smashed together which I usually do not see in his sig. The Thomas I feel is not legit because I have never seen a Frank Thomas auto where he signed his full name like that. It is usually a standard FT 35 with some lines through it. But what do I know, plus im drunk.

BunchOBull · August 25, 2007 10:28PM

I understand everyone's concern with the Thomas, but I can personally attest to the fact that Thomas, in his early career, signed his full name. I've really wanted to find a "Frank E. Thomas" signature, but I've yet to see one come up on eBay.

Here is the Thomas I purchased:

Here is a recent eBay example PSA/DNA certified:

The auto on the card looks hideous. It's very squished in comparison to most of his early autos, but I'm sure that's to make it fit on the card.

Again, as for the Rose, it looks exactly like every other Rose auto I've ever seen, until I saw the one posted above. I think he may have been drunk when he signed that one.

Ross

EDITED TO REPAIR AN IMAGE CODE

onlyanumber · August 26, 2007 12:07AM

Here is mine from 1986

Mine is of course in ballpoint on a piece of paper, compared to sharpie on a photo, but I think there are similarities that match up...

BunchOBull · August 26, 2007 12:26AM

I see many similarities. Thanks for the post.

diamondman · August 26, 2007 2:09AM

I did a card show in 1990 around Thanksgiving, got a couple Thomas autos at the show they looked just like the 8x10 photo you bought . I think both autos are real in my opinion. Also back in the late 80's and early 90's , no one ever asked about COA's you either bought off a reputable dealer or went to a card show and watched them sign it. There are a lot of real autographs out there with no Loa's or coa's , i have roughly 2 dozen baseball signed by HOFer's none have LOA's as I would get them at shows I set up at. Some where free for buying 2 or more tables others well I had to pay for examples are Mickey Mantle 35.00 Ted Williams 75.00 Rose 15.00 ect ect , yes there is a lot of fakes out there, but there is also a lot of authentic autos out there too.
thought about sending in some of mine to PSA until I read a board where people had received autos back that they got in person come back questionable authentic ? Probably will end up having to send some in to PSA only because I know if I don't have that big stamp of approval from a 3rd party , I won't be able to get the true value out of them. JMHO

onlyanumber · August 26, 2007 2:40AM

<< <i>I did a card show in 1990 around Thanksgiving, got a couple Thomas autos at the show they looked just like the 8x10 photo you bought . I think both autos are real in my opinion. Also back in the late 80's and early 90's , no one ever asked about COA's you either bought off a reputable dealer or went to a card show and watched them sign it. There are a lot of real autographs out there with no Loa's or coa's , i have roughly 2 dozen baseball signed by HOFer's none have LOA's as I would get them at shows I set up at. Some where free for buying 2 or more tables others well I had to pay for examples are Mickey Mantle 35.00 Ted Williams 75.00 Rose 15.00 ect ect , yes there is a lot of fakes out there, but there is also a lot of authentic autos out there too.
thought about sending in some of mine to PSA until I read a board where people had received autos back that they got in person come back questionable authentic ? Probably will end up having to send some in to PSA only because I know if I don't have that big stamp of approval from a 3rd party , I won't be able to get the true value out of them. JMHO >>

It happened to me--I sent in a David Wright auto I got signed by him in person in spring training of his rookie year come back as not likely genuine and a Hilary Clinton I got signed in person at a fund raiser which came back not authentic. Won't be sending anything else in to PSA/DNA...

BunchOBull · August 26, 2007 2:55AM

<< <i>I did a card show in 1990 around Thanksgiving, got a couple Thomas autos at the show they looked just like the 8x10 photo you bought . I think both autos are real in my opinion. Also back in the late 80's and early 90's , no one ever asked about COA's you either bought off a reputable dealer or went to a card show and watched them sign it. There are a lot of real autographs out there with no Loa's or coa's , i have roughly 2 dozen baseball signed by HOFer's none have LOA's as I would get them at shows I set up at. Some where free for buying 2 or more tables others well I had to pay for examples are Mickey Mantle 35.00 Ted Williams 75.00 Rose 15.00 ect ect , yes there is a lot of fakes out there, but there is also a lot of authentic autos out there too.
thought about sending in some of mine to PSA until I read a board where people had received autos back that they got in person come back questionable authentic ? Probably will end up having to send some in to PSA only because I know if I don't have that big stamp of approval from a 3rd party , I won't be able to get the true value out of them. JMHO >>

Thanks Diamond. I agree completely. Everything about those autos points to that time period and that's what I'm going with. I will probably never have them authenticated, but they're just for me anyway.

Jdurg · August 26, 2007 3:50AM

Also, a lot of times a player's autograph will be slightly different depending on the circumstances behind the signing. Take your own signature, for example. If you've been signing a lot of things in a short time period, just from fatigue your signature will start to change a bit. Also, if you are in a hurry your signature will differ quite a bit than if you were slowly taking your time. In one session, I've seen a player's autograph differ dramatically due to hand fatigue and differences in the items being signed.

Whenever I look at an autograph, I try and look at the flow of the ink more than anything else. If you see areas where the signer was obviously slowing down in order to make it "look right", then chances are it might be a fake. If the flow of ink is smooth and doesn't have any "hiccups", it could just be that when signing the guy's hand was getting fatigued and as a result the auto looks a bit different.

I committed a collecting No-No today...

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