Really ... What Did Bonds Do That Was So Bad?
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
Driving home today from work, I heard a caller on the radio ask a very simple question about Barry Bonds ... what did he do that was so bad? Really? Assuming everything that is said and/or alleged about him is true, I see Bonds as:
1. He used steroids which, while not against "baseball laws," is in violation of state and federal laws;
2. He treats his teammates poorly;
3. He treats the fans poorly;
4. He treats the media poorly;
5. He cheated to break the most hallowed record in baseball, maybe sports;
6. He lied to a grand jury; and
7. He didn't pay taxes.
I'm sure I'm missing something, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head. Please feel free to add. So back to the question. What did Bonds' do that was so bad? Numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5 are instantly out. Why? Because they're all within the context of baseball. Call it what you will, a sport, a game, a business. But I'm guessing a good percentage of us will continue with our lives if we woke up tomorrow and baseball ceased to exist. Was I excited last night when I watched Bonds hit number 756? Absolutely. Did I still have to wake up this morning and go to work? Absolutely. How many bosses in America would grant you a day off because you wanted to take the day off to celebrate Bonds' 756. Not too many I'm guessing. So baseball, important to some, not important to many.
Now, as to 1, 6 and 7. Well, criminal laws, to a larger extent, reflect the morals and values of a society. Many would disagree, the basic premise is that one should not drugs/steroids because they are bad for you. Telling the truth to a grand jury? That's important because the role of a grand jury is to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to indict someone for allegedly breaking the law. And how can they do this if grand jury witnesses are not telling the truth. And taxes? Well, unfortunately, the U.S. Constitution authorizes taxes and as much as we hate to pay them, taxes are supposed to raise money to finance government programs and services.
So back to the original question. What did Bonds do that was so bad? Did he commit murder? Rape? Robbery? Assault and battery? No. He allegedly cheated at a sport. How often do we hear that sports is a distraction? An escape from the redundancy of life. And if this is true, how big is it, or should it be, that Bonds cheated at what is considered a distraction or an escape? If Kobe score 101 points in a game this upcoming season, how would that affect your life, even assuming you are a Kobe/Laker fan? It’s similar to “your” team winning the championship? From the time I followed them, the 49ers won five (5) Super Bowls. How different would my life be if they had won zero (0). I’m fairly certain the answer would be little or no difference.
After Bonds hit 756, Gene Wojciechowski of ESPN Wrote:
Bonds and his career numbers are a fraud. Just like McGwire's. Just like Rafael Palmeiro's. Just like Sammy Sosa's. Bonds wasn't the first to be connected with steroids or performance enhancers, but he's the first to overtake Aaron. And that's why you should care.
Wojciechowski Column
If I read this correct, Mr. Wojciechowski appears to be distinguishing between levels of cheating. One the one hand, there’s cheating at every level and every sort in baseball. On the other hands, there’s cheating that enables a player to set the all-time HR record. Why the distinction? Because the home run record is the greatest record in all of baseball? Maybe sports? And again, we’re back in the realm of baseball; a game, a sports, a business, a distraction, an escape. Funny the most impactful characterization is that of business. Because those whose lives depend on baseball, e.g. to make a living, their lives would obviously be impacted if baseball did not exist tomorrow. But for the other characterizations, it would not be unreasonable to think that they would barely impact your life, if at all.
So to all those people who say they hate Bonds, would you hold the same level of hate to Bonds as to someone who truly caused you and/or your family harm by [insert heinous act, criminal act]? I’m guessing not. And for those who truly do hate Bonds, that is borderline amazing. To say that you hate Bonds because [fill in reason] even though you’ve never met and/or interacted with him? And if you did, I doubt he said to himself, “there’s [fill in name]! I’m going to be a complete a-hole to him/her.”
Within the context of society, Bonds allegedly cheating at baseball, can be and should be viewed as a de minimis act, in terms of impacting our lives. I’m not saying anyone is, but I hope no one loses any sleep or grows a gray hair over it. Mr. Wojciechowski, I respectfully disagree that I should care.
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Now the person who really missed out is the person who had the Bonds BGS 10 Tiffany. Too bad the auction didn't end AFTER number 756. I think it ended a couple of hours before.
1. He used steroids which, while not against "baseball laws," is in violation of state and federal laws;
2. He treats his teammates poorly;
3. He treats the fans poorly;
4. He treats the media poorly;
5. He cheated to break the most hallowed record in baseball, maybe sports;
6. He lied to a grand jury; and
7. He didn't pay taxes.
I'm sure I'm missing something, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head. Please feel free to add. So back to the question. What did Bonds' do that was so bad? Numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5 are instantly out. Why? Because they're all within the context of baseball. Call it what you will, a sport, a game, a business. But I'm guessing a good percentage of us will continue with our lives if we woke up tomorrow and baseball ceased to exist. Was I excited last night when I watched Bonds hit number 756? Absolutely. Did I still have to wake up this morning and go to work? Absolutely. How many bosses in America would grant you a day off because you wanted to take the day off to celebrate Bonds' 756. Not too many I'm guessing. So baseball, important to some, not important to many.
Now, as to 1, 6 and 7. Well, criminal laws, to a larger extent, reflect the morals and values of a society. Many would disagree, the basic premise is that one should not drugs/steroids because they are bad for you. Telling the truth to a grand jury? That's important because the role of a grand jury is to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to indict someone for allegedly breaking the law. And how can they do this if grand jury witnesses are not telling the truth. And taxes? Well, unfortunately, the U.S. Constitution authorizes taxes and as much as we hate to pay them, taxes are supposed to raise money to finance government programs and services.
So back to the original question. What did Bonds do that was so bad? Did he commit murder? Rape? Robbery? Assault and battery? No. He allegedly cheated at a sport. How often do we hear that sports is a distraction? An escape from the redundancy of life. And if this is true, how big is it, or should it be, that Bonds cheated at what is considered a distraction or an escape? If Kobe score 101 points in a game this upcoming season, how would that affect your life, even assuming you are a Kobe/Laker fan? It’s similar to “your” team winning the championship? From the time I followed them, the 49ers won five (5) Super Bowls. How different would my life be if they had won zero (0). I’m fairly certain the answer would be little or no difference.
After Bonds hit 756, Gene Wojciechowski of ESPN Wrote:
Bonds and his career numbers are a fraud. Just like McGwire's. Just like Rafael Palmeiro's. Just like Sammy Sosa's. Bonds wasn't the first to be connected with steroids or performance enhancers, but he's the first to overtake Aaron. And that's why you should care.
Wojciechowski Column
If I read this correct, Mr. Wojciechowski appears to be distinguishing between levels of cheating. One the one hand, there’s cheating at every level and every sort in baseball. On the other hands, there’s cheating that enables a player to set the all-time HR record. Why the distinction? Because the home run record is the greatest record in all of baseball? Maybe sports? And again, we’re back in the realm of baseball; a game, a sports, a business, a distraction, an escape. Funny the most impactful characterization is that of business. Because those whose lives depend on baseball, e.g. to make a living, their lives would obviously be impacted if baseball did not exist tomorrow. But for the other characterizations, it would not be unreasonable to think that they would barely impact your life, if at all.
So to all those people who say they hate Bonds, would you hold the same level of hate to Bonds as to someone who truly caused you and/or your family harm by [insert heinous act, criminal act]? I’m guessing not. And for those who truly do hate Bonds, that is borderline amazing. To say that you hate Bonds because [fill in reason] even though you’ve never met and/or interacted with him? And if you did, I doubt he said to himself, “there’s [fill in name]! I’m going to be a complete a-hole to him/her.”
Within the context of society, Bonds allegedly cheating at baseball, can be and should be viewed as a de minimis act, in terms of impacting our lives. I’m not saying anyone is, but I hope no one loses any sleep or grows a gray hair over it. Mr. Wojciechowski, I respectfully disagree that I should care.
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Now the person who really missed out is the person who had the Bonds BGS 10 Tiffany. Too bad the auction didn't end AFTER number 756. I think it ended a couple of hours before.
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Comments
need tungsten.
j
RIP GURU
Boogie will never be the same again
Mays was possibly the greatest all around player ever to put on a uniform but...
He shied from the press.
He wasn't very open to fans.
He remains fairly surly to fans when he has to deal with them (autograph shows and the like).
He still bears the scars of the racism he experience growing up in the South and during his baseball years and as still doesn't trust a lot of people.
Barry learned from Mays a lot of what made him what he is today. I was fortunate in having to have had the pleasure of speaking to his father, Bobby Bonds, on occasion when the elder Bonds frequented the Bay Meadows Race Track, where I worked back then. He (Bobby) was very nice and he was happy to talk both baseball and horses. He was rarely bothered by autograph seekers but when he did he obliged without complaint.
Yet Mays is still beloved by many while Barry is a pariah. Is it the steroid issue? Or is it just that he's a jerk?
For the record, I'm a big fan of both Mays and Barry Bonds - as baseball players. I got Mays' autograph at a card show and he didn't even look up, not once at anyone as I passed through the line. As for Barry, I have tried to get his autograph in person and have been ignored, refused, and given the silent treatment. As a long time autograph collector neither is on my "good" list.
However, having been only good enough to make it through high school baseball I know how hard it is to hit a baseball and whether it be 660 home runs or 756 it's a feat worthy of praise - personalities be damned.
randy
i hope this answers the question
he also committed adultery, probably more than once. not that he's the only one or anything.
www.tigerpawcast.com
GEAUX TIGERS!!
[
"3) The Hall of Fame has in its induction guidelines that sportsmanship and integrity are part of the what makes a HOFer. In Bonds case, this gives plenty of writers a legitimate reason to not vote him in. It has already been used on McGwire, so I wouldn't go making that bronze plaque just yet. You already have guys like Lupica lambasting him. As more stuff comes to light between now and the next six years, it will only get worse for him in this area.
Whether or not every player in the era used roids, the writers have it in their power to not let anyone in that is a suspect...based on the induction guidlines of the HOF. McGwire is the first to feel it. Palmeiro will be the next. There is no question Bonds' attitude will make it even tougher than if he were a nice guy."
as more and more evidence comes to light a bigger and darker shadow will be bast on Bonds. Just as McGwire did not get into the Hall, and Palmeiro won't either... same with Sosa. Not for a good long time.
Thank you for the laugh this morning guy...what a way to start the day.
Bonds will be a HoFer, and will do so on his first ballot...McGwire will ultimately be in as well, as will Sosa. As I stated in the sports forum, the same people thinking today's players aren't worthy sounds like the last generation who said players like Aaron weren't worthy either.
Asinine statement. You're comparing apples to ipods.
<< <i>"Bonds will be a HoFer, and will do so on his first ballot...McGwire will ultimately be in as well, as will Sosa. As I stated in the sports forum, the same people thinking today's players aren't worthy sounds like the last generation who said players like Aaron weren't worthy either."
Asinine statement. You're comparing apples to ipods. >>
Uhm, no I am not. Both generations of players had people (like you) who feel that the game is somehow diminished, instead of appreciating the history that happens right in front of them. Plenty of people cast doubt on Aaron's record, just like people are casting doubt on Bonds. This isn't a new phenomenon.
So, go ahead and be a crotchety old man - those of us who are real baseball fans will appreciate the history that is happening right before our very eyes.
*sorry I see someone above already mentioned this.
You sound like a person, err - collector that spilled a lot of his hard-earned paycheck on Bonds memorabilia.
Incidentally, I celebrated Hammer'n Hank and the Braves throughout the 70s.
Now get back to collating your Reflectors
Humbug!
And, I hate to break the news to you cardbender, cheating on your wife is not a standard for HOF eligibility. If that were the case, the Hall of Fame would be a very lonely place.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Second, I nailed it about ladder's motivations...rooted for Aaron so there's no way this generation could be as good...typical.
Finally, 'personality and integrity go a long way'? Uhm, since when? The MLB hall of fame is stocked with guys who lacked BOTH, Bonds surely would fit right in.
Unless Bonds has threatened this guy's life, I would be spilling my guts about Bonds and getting myself out from behind those bars. Loyalty, stupidity, or scared???
<Bonds and Cobb are two sides of the same coin. The difference being Cobb didn't cheat to get his records. >
yeah ive read about cobb too lol, swell fella,they make a good pair
MLB has done everything they can to distance themselves from a problem they created in the first place. Is there anyone out there who honestly believes MLB and the owners didn't know what was going on way before it became an issue, i.e. before Bonds, Sosa and McGwire started to shatter the HR records? Of course, MLB denies they knew anything about it and that Canseco was not correct about the allegations concerning their knowledge of the issue. So, Canseco was right about the players, but wrong about the owners and MLB management? Sounds like the typical politician to me.
Anderson will never testify. He will serve a little more time but they can't keep him forever. Bonds will never be convicted of anything and the only way MLB baseball can keep him out of the HOF is to change the rules of induction to add a ballot provision which states that any player who is convicted of a crime in the press or in the court of public opinion, is barred from inclusion on the ballot.
I have to admit, though, this makes for enjoyable reading. The Bonds haters really have an axe to grind for some reason and it goes way beyond anything Bonds allegedly did. I think that was the point of the thread to begin with?
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>Driving home today from work, I heard a caller on the radio ask a very simple question about Barry Bonds ... what did he do that was so bad? Really? Assuming everything that is said and/or alleged about him is true, I see Bonds as:
1. He used steroids which, while not against "baseball laws," is in violation of state and federal laws;
2. He treats his teammates poorly;
3. He treats the fans poorly;
4. He treats the media poorly;
5. He cheated to break the most hallowed record in baseball, maybe sports;
6. He lied to a grand jury; and
7. He didn't pay taxes. >>
You can also add to the list:
- During the player's strike of 1994, went to court to have his child support payments reduced
Sorry, but that's just douchebaggery. It's not like he was hurting for $$$ at the time...
Tabe
<< <i>moose, now that ya mention it, i never seen barry auto on anything,never reallly looked for one but youd thinkone or tow would be on ebay somewhere!
randy >>
Rube - Bonds WILL sign in person, it's just always on his terms, and when he is in the mood. My only in-person attempts were in my last days as an autograph hound when I was in my 20s - twice at the airport and once at the park. I may not have been the best of situations as I was/am as tall as he is and he will usually sign for kids so long as there aren't a huge number of them. I ALWAYS waited for the younger kids to get their sigs before asking. A fellow hound/buddy of mine did get one signed card for me at the airport.
- During the player's strike of 1994, went to court to have his child support payments reduced
Sorry, but that's just douchebaggery. It's not like he was hurting for $$$ at the time...
Tabe>>
Actually, this is another one of those Bonds stories which has been twisted to fit the perception the press and the Bonds haters wants you to have. The reality is Sue Bonds went to court to have her payments increased in spite of signing a pre-nup agreement. Bonds did what any of us would have done - hired a good attorney. Sue Bonds lost. Of course, she still got an estimated $20-$30,000 a month. Tough life.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>
I have to admit, though, this makes for enjoyable reading. The Bonds haters really have an axe to grind for some reason and it goes way beyond anything Bonds allegedly did. I think that was the point of the thread to begin with? >>
You and me both...hilarious to see these ridiculous, 'holier than thou' type attitudes so many people here possess when it comes to talking about Bonds.
Bob
Bud can't do squat to the collective bargaining agreement without the union's permission.
They knew what was going on, they knew the health risks, they knew their pension would be undermined by said risks, they are just as much to blame.
Period.
Bud can't do squat to the collective bargaining agreement without the union's permission.
They knew what was going on, they knew the health risks, they knew their pension would be undermined by said risks, they are just as much to blame.>>
Absolutely. And, since they don't allow blood tests, there is still no way to detect HGH, which means the cloud of suspicion will remain. Of course this is true for the NBA and NFL as well. No blood testing.
Let's be clear, not even Bonds supporters such as myself condone using illegal performance enhancing drugs. I just don't like the way he is singled out and blamed for all this crap. There is plenty of blame to go around, including the fans. They were too busy enjoying the home run chase to get too bent out of shape about it. It was only when the sacred HR records were broken that the press, MLB and the fans started to get excited.
Unfortunately, until blood testing is mandatory, doping will continue to be a problem.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>It never helps your cause to be a racist dick, which Barry surely is. Screw him and his ill-gotten "record" (ASS-terisk.) >>
Don't be so quick to call Bonds a racist. He's equal opportunity when it comes to having a chip on his shoulder...Bonds grew up in an middle class suburban white neighborhood (San Carlos, CA), went to a predominantly white private high school known for it's sports programs (Serra High - same a Gregg Jeffries) and by all accounts what friends he had were white.
5 = A lot, Player/Owner
4 = Somewhat, Job/Career tied to baseball - Umpire, Coach, Manager, GM
3 = A little, Job/Career is tied to baseball on a part-time seasonal basis
2 = Barely, Job/Career peripherally tied to baseball - Bar owner
1 = Not at all, Likely millions of people
So I ask again, what did Bonds do that was so bad? He allegedly cheated in baseball. Perhaps the root of all hatred towards Bonds is that he is the antithesis of the saying, "Cheaters never win." Assuming Bonds did cheat, who can reasonably argue that he didn't "win." And even if he did cheat, so what?!
I enjoy baseball. I really do. Heck, I'll be first in line to admit that I love to see a player smack a baseball 535 feet and have it land in ANOTHER STATE.
Hit in Ohio, Stopped in Kentucky
But if baseball ceased to exist tomorrow, the lives on nearly 99% of Americans would remain unchanged. So to the premise of this rant, why do we care that Bonds cheated, much less hold so much hatred and disdain towards him? You would think he ranks up there as one of the most evil persons in history.
List of 10 Most "Evil" and "Good" People in History
/s/ JackWESQ