Is Raw Vintage on the Rise?

SDavid · August 8, 2007 12:19PM

1966 Fergie Jenkins Raw

I've seen some crazy bids on raw vintage lately. Usually not this high, but certainly substantially more than the cards would have received if they were slabbed and graded by PSA/SGC standards. From the enlarged scan, the top right corner is fuzzy and the BLC looks like it has a ding, but even as a 7 it's only a $50-$60 card.

vintagetoppsguy · August 8, 2007 12:27PM

I've bought several raw vintage commons from this guy on many occasions. He sells good stuff, but usually overgrades it by a grade or half-grade. If he says it's in near mint condition, then it's probably like ExMt+. At least that has been my experience.

HeritageAddict · August 8, 2007 12:49PM

I also have bought from him on several occasions, but you do have to be prepared for them to be a grade or so lower than stated in the auction and for them to be delivered in a plain white envelope if it is five or less cards, and the cards will all be stuffed into one card saver which probably causes them to be an additional grade lower with tape damage 50% of the time.

ctsoxfan · August 8, 2007 12:50PM

<< <i>I've bought several raw vintage commons from this guy on many occasions. He sells good stuff, but usually overgrades it by a grade or half-grade. If he says it's in near mint condition, then it's probably like ExMt+. At least that has been my experience. >>

Overgrades by half-a-grade? You are being far too kind - this notorious seller of extremely overgraded raw crap is very well known on these forums and others. I would stay away, unless you want some cards for a really low grade raw set.

yankeeno7 · August 8, 2007 12:55PM

I personally stay far away from him also. One experience...not happy. Never again.

Morgoth · August 8, 2007 12:57PM

just another case of someone thinking they are smarter than the system. In the end if you are wanting a certain grade condition it is cheaper to buy it then to play the buy raw and submit game especially at those prices.

SDavid · August 8, 2007 1:12PM

I know this seller has a reputation for overgrading - that's why it surprised me so much. You used to just see stuff like this with guys like waverly, but now it seems to be more common.

grote15 · August 8, 2007 1:16PM

Bidding that kind of dough on a raw card is just far too risky and almost certain to end up in disappointment for the buyer.

baseballfanatic · August 8, 2007 1:22PM

This has got to be someones non-graded account.
In this day and age, NO ONE (large dealers) sells cards that have a shot at 9's and 10's raw.
Period.

Manofmoe · August 8, 2007 1:25PM

Is this card that rare in psa 8?

SDavid · August 8, 2007 1:35PM

An 8 recently went for about that same amount (around $215), but they can be had in the $150-$160 range. A well-centered 8 would probably go for more, though.

BobaFett72 · August 8, 2007 2:05PM

nicely centered fergie jenkins, but i see hits on three corners

CDsNuts · August 8, 2007 2:07PM

That's a lot of coin for a nicely centered PSA 6 Jenkins RC.

downtown · August 8, 2007 2:24PM

Not the same amount of coin as the Jenkins...but way over graded JC Martin card....
1967 JC Martin

book value on the card I think is only $15 and bidder paid $21 + shipping

CDsNuts · August 8, 2007 2:28PM

That's a lot of coin for a PSA 5 common.

jeff8877 · August 8, 2007 3:12PM

Bought him once and never again...my comments are the exact same as Hertiage Addicts...over grades by one grade and less than 5 cards comes in an white envelope stuffed into a penny saver.

I would stay away.

Jeff

bifff257 · August 8, 2007 11:41PM

<< <i>Bidding that kind of dough on a raw card is just far too risky and almost certain to end up in disappointment for the buyer. >>

RonBurgundy · August 8, 2007 11:48PM

This guy sells crap, and packages his cards crappy as noted by others.

Raw vintage is not necessarily on the rise, but the number of people building raw vintage sets as opposed to graded sets is increasing. That was a rumor last year at the National, but this year several dealers said it's no longer a rumor, it's happening.

Ron

GOODLIEU · August 9, 2007 12:15AM

I collect vintage Basketball and as the prices for 1948 Bowman/1957 topps and 1961 Fleer skyrocket I found myself looking through piles of raw cards in these sets at the National in Cleveland in a efffort to maybe find that one card that will go into a PSA 8/9 slab. I personally would not buy any high profile raw vintage material on the Net as it is way to risky. Its hard enough doing this at the shows with the card in you hands.

markj111 · August 9, 2007 12:23AM

I have bought from him and done OK. I received 7s and 8s on some cards from 59-71. One card was recolored. If you keep your bids low, and bid just on the highest quality cards, you can come out ahead.

stown · August 9, 2007 12:49AM

<< <i>Bought him once and never again...my comments are the exact same as Hertiage Addicts...over grades by one grade and less than 5 cards comes in an white envelope stuffed into a penny saver.

I would stay away.

Jeff >>

Never, ever, ever again.

chaz43 · August 9, 2007 1:10AM

Don't go near 555. I did once, had to return everything (over 100 bucks worth of cards) but he did refund my money. Not worth the hassle and the cards I received were not the same ones in his feebay scans. chaz

ctsoxfan · August 9, 2007 8:14AM

<< <i>Don't go near 555. I did once, had to return everything (over 100 bucks worth of cards) but he did refund my money. Not worth the hassle and the cards I received were not the same ones in his feebay scans. chaz >>

That's another good thing to point out - the one time I bought from him, I received different cards from the scan as well. And yes, his shipping methods were as cut-rate cheap as you can get.

rube26105 · August 9, 2007 8:21AM

ive never bought from him, now i definately wont, i try not to buy raw ones anymore, i always get the old ones back trimmed or something,anymore if its not psa graded,i dont buy it
randy

Kurtman9 · August 9, 2007 10:39AM

I agree with most of what has been posted here about this seller. Generally, the cards are overgraded by at least one grade, imo. However, I must say (as Markj did above), I have come out way ahead buying from this seller. I went back in my records and found that I won approximately 345 raw cards on ebay from them since June '05. They ranged from 1958 - 71, all Topps baseball. All of them were listed: NRMT/MINT. Of those, approximately 50 were so blatantly overgraded, I returned them for a refund, which were always granted (although sometimes quite begrudgingly I might add). So, that leaves about 295 cards that I kept. Of those, I have sent 235 of them to PSA (I only send cards that I think have a good shot at getting 8s). The other 60 that I did not grade were EXMT to NM, so I just keep them for raw sets. Results of grading:
PSA 9 2 cards
PSA 8 141 cards
PSA 7 90 cards
PSA 6 2 cards

These results are probably skewed because I only bid on cards that were centered and really looked like sharp 8s in the scans. The vast majority of the graded cards were from the 1959 and 1971 sets. He really had some gorgeous 59s for sale about a year ago. The 71s were very nice also, bought in June & July of 2005. In the last year or so, I found the problem with overgrading got much worse, so I have not bid on anything of theirs lately.

Is Raw Vintage on the Rise?

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