Is this a real coin?

newbiecollector · August 3, 2007 8:22PM

This is being offered at auction on another site.
My question(s) are, is it real and if so what would be a good price?

Thanks

theboz11 · August 3, 2007 8:27PM

Not in my area, though I have seen a few, I can't tell you if it is real. It looks fantastic and I would expect a premium number on it.

newbiecollector · August 3, 2007 8:28PM

I thought I had seen some of the forum here before, maybe from CIVITS, not sure.

If I remember right it was not going for what this fella has it started for on his auction.

dcamp78 · August 3, 2007 10:47PM

This may be it:

Attica, Athens AR Tetradrachm. 330-310 BC. Helmeted Head of Athena right wearing round earring / AQE, owl standing right, head facing, wings closed; behind, spray of olive & crescent; all in incuse square.

Here is where I found the information:
Wildwinds site

then search for Svoronos 11 on that page.

Link to pictures

I hope this helps...

newbiecollector · August 4, 2007 12:04AM

Looked like the same photo to me, so maybe my seller stole the pic

Hyperion · August 4, 2007 12:58AM

Compared with Archaic Owls, Athena's helmet on this and other Classical Owls is decorated with a floral scroll (flowery design) and olive leaves and the reverse includes a crescent moon. Like a wreath of triumph, the floral scroll probably refers to the Greek victory over the Persians, though some regard it as merely decorative. Some regard the crescent moon as merely referring to owls' nocturnal activities. Others believe it refers to the Battle of Marathon, though this battle took place during a full moon. It more likely refers to the Battle of Salamis, which was more decisive and took place shortly before the addition of this feature to Owls.

Compared with most earlier Classical Owls, whose minting began c. 478 BC, Athena's hair on this and other "standardized" Classical Owls sweeps across her forehead in one series of parallel curves, the owl's head is straight and body long, and the owl's tail feathers end in a single prong rather than appearing as separately delineated feathers.

As on all Classical and Archaic Owls, Athena retains her archaic frontal, almond-shaped eye. This anachronism, which happened despite the introduction of perspective and realism on coins elsewhere in Greece at the time, was no doubt a deliberate means Athens used to retain the easy recognizability and acceptance of Owls as money throughout the known world and the profits it earned from minting them. As on other Classical Owls, Athena wears a pearl earring and necklace.

As with most Classical Owl tetradrachms, the horse-hair crest of Athena's helmet on this specimen is mostly off the flan, which is compact, too small for the coin's full design. Because of their relative rarity, full-crest Owls carry a substantial premium, though they're not necessarily more attractive. Athena can look top-heavy and off-balance, and the design can be truncated elsewhere, often the tip of Athena's nose or chin.

Athena wears an Attic (also called Athenian) helmet on Owls in contrast to a Corinthian helmet on, among other coins, Alexander the Great gold staters and Corinthian silver staters (there's longstanding debate over whether Corinthian staters depict Athena or Aphrodite, though the figure on these coins is typically referred to as Athena). In contrast to the Attic helmet depicted on Owls, the Corinthian helmet had a nose piece and relatively small openings for the eyes and mouth (better protection but poorer visibility and hearing). The Attic helmet had a hinged visor that's pulled up on Owls but could be dropped down for greater protection of the face during battle.

Among other coins depicting an Attic helmet are electrum staters of Kyzikos (Sear Greek 3478) and Seleukos I tetradrachms portraying Alexander/Seleukos I (Sear Greek 6833). Along with the Attic and Corinthian helmet, also depicted on ancient Greek and Roman coins is the Phrygian helmet, appearing on, for instance, coins of Velia (Sear Greek 455). Other helmets used in ancient Greece included the Illyrian, Chalcidian, Thracian, and Macedonian, among others.

Despite the popularity of standardized Classical Athenian Owls, their dating and attribution is one of the great underexplored areas of ancient numismatic scholarship. Chester Starr in 1970 called this area a "wasteland" and said a study of these coins, because of their sheer numbers, would be a "terrific labour." Nobody has yet undertaken it. Perhaps someone at the ANS or British Museum, with access to large numbers of specimens of these coins, will do this someday.

Standardized Owls are most commonly dated c. 449 to 413 BC, in the U.S. at least. That's how David Sear dated them in his standard 1978 reference Greek Coins and Their Values. He in turn based his dating on Chester Starr's 1970 book Athenian Coinage, 480-449 B.C. But not all dealers and auction houses date these coins this way, and some new hoard evidence has surfaced since Sear's 1978 book.

The 449 date comes from the Athenian Coinage Decree, which sought to force Athens' allies to use Athenian coins, weights and measures and which is thought to have occurred c. 449 BC (some scholars believe it occurred later). The 413 date comes from the cessation of income from Athenian allies and the Laurion silver mines that occurred near the end of the Peloponnesian War, which Athens lost to Sparta.

(cut and paste)

newbiecollector · August 4, 2007 1:03AM

Thanks

CIVITAS · August 4, 2007 5:14AM

Probably real, but always hard to say for sure from a picture.

If genuine, taking the detail and strike into account and the lack of test cuts, probably $1500+

goldboy · August 4, 2007 7:29AM

Thanks for posting the link Dave............................................

newbiecollector · August 4, 2007 10:44AM

I checked the auction again. Here is how he has it listed:

Attica, Athen: Klassisk UGLE 449 f.Kr

Which is Attica, Athens: Classic Owl, 449 BC. His starting (minimum bid) price is approx. $2400 US

Thanks for all the input folks. I am not after this coin, I just thoght it looked like a very high price

CIVITAS · August 6, 2007 1:27PM

Very nice examples of Owls were bringing $3000+ in New York this January, but I don't know how this one stacks up. Pricing owls is a strange art. Lots goes into it and I still haven't figured out how the high end ones work.

Is this a real coin?

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