Cancellation of Tri Star shows nationwide.............
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
Surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this (or maybe there was and I missed it). Downright awful, to me, that Tri Star abruptly decides not to have shows in Kansas City, Boston, Cleveland, and Dallas anymore, because they need to fund their minor league card business. Sad, and what's galling about it is that the shows just go away without any explanation from Tri Star. They don't owe anyone an explanation, I suppose, but it would be nice to show some respect to collectors who have attended these shows for years.
Good luck with those minor league cards and it's appeal to 10% of the collecting population.
Stay classy,
Ron
Good luck with those minor league cards and it's appeal to 10% of the collecting population.
Stay classy,
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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I feel bad for those who lost shows and hope another promoter picks up the slack.
From a selfish point of view, hopefully this will improve the Houston shows
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>The ONLY reason to go the the Boston show was to get auto's. I have a photo of Boggs, Brett, and MAttingly I am working on getting signed. The three top HOF'ers of the 80's! Yes HOF'ers >>
HOFer's???? I count 2 & there is about 15-20 other ones better than that other guy. :-)
Be good my brothers.
<< <i>
<< <i>The ONLY reason to go the the Boston show was to get auto's. I have a photo of Boggs, Brett, and MAttingly I am working on getting signed. The three top HOF'ers of the 80's! Yes HOF'ers >>
HOFer's???? I count 2 & there is about 15-20 other ones better than that other guy. :-) >>
Here we go again...
If they get out of the card and autograph show business, who, if anyone, would take their place?
Robert
Link
I go usually go to the Houston show. I think what does them in is that they pay for a venue that is way beyond what is needed. They only use about 1/4 of the space they rent in the George R. Brown and everyone, collectors and especially dealers, gets hurt by that in the end.
its all about Ebay, Naxcom, Mastro, Memory Lane, etc.....all online venues.....
even supplies are available online...
the only thing that may be missed, and this thread illustrates that, is IN-Person Autographs.....
the hobby evolves every day....
My wife told me the other day I should try to find one of every type of card out there. You know, T206's, T3's, Goudey's, etc. So, I'm setting out on this endeavour, but I know I won't find this stuff at shows. Seems like everyone's hooked on modern stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't expect shows to last long when the average price of a card is $100 or more. Just my two cents.
"I go usually go to the Houston show. I think what does them in is that they pay for a venue that is way beyond what is needed. They only use about 1/4 of the space they rent in the George R. Brown and everyone, collectors and especially dealers, gets hurt by that in the end."
Dude, I have been to nearly every Houston TriStar show they have ever had and have never seen this so I have to disagree with you there, but let me explain. TriStar charges $10.00 admission to their show. I've turned around and gone to a gun show there (GRB) the following weekend and only pay $5.00 admission (same with any other GRB event). The same applies to the dealer tables. TriStar charges around $300.00 (could be more) for each dealer table, but the dealers at the gun shows only pay $50-$75 per table. Does the GRB charge TriStar twice the price for rental so they have to charge twice the price for admission and dealer tables? Certainlly not. Everybody on these boards is quick to point out a fraudulant eBayer, but TriStar is the biggest rip off of all time. Look at what they were charging for Nolan Ryan's autograph at their show a while back. I think it was around $150.00!!! You can drive about 30 minutes south to Alvin (Nolan Ryan Exhibit Center) and Nolan will autograph your items for $50.00 and the hologram is included, not an extra $7.00. Anybody pay $150.00 for David Carr when the Texans drafted him a few years ago? Go try to sell that now!
Almost every response on this thread states that they go mainly for the autographs (which are all way overpriced). Consider this: Everybody who walks into those doors has a budget they are willing to spend - be it $100, $1000 or whatever, we know our limit when we go there. So, if everybody is going for the autographs, that means that there is less money for those people to spend at the dealer tables. There has been a definite decline in delaers within the last few shows. Houston's largest dealer, Eddie Martinez (The Old Ballpark), didn't do the TriStar show last month because it just isn't worth it anymore. TriStar is the only one making money and if the dealers aren't making money, they're not going to do the shows. If the dealers aren't doing the shows, then yes, TriStar is going to cancel. After all, it is a BASEBALL CARD SHOW which happens to have autograph guests. But if the parking, admission and autographs (and inscriptions - another way for TriStar to squeeze money out of you) eat up all the collector's money then that collector has no money to spend at the dealer tables and the dealers quit doing the shows. REAL SIMPLE!
Geordie
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I've been to almost every show in Houston and rarely do I buy cards. It's not that I'm over my budget, it's just that the cards are waaaaaay overpriced/graded as compared to eBay. For example, for this last show I dropped easily over $1k for autos and had matching funds for cards. I'll take a stack of cash with 100% intent to spend with the dealers because the other costs (admission, autos, parking, etc) are already prepaid and accounted for. I would hope that most other collectors do the same.
While the dealers showcased predominately modern cards, there were some dealers that specialized with vintage. I have no problem overpaying for a great looking or reasonably overpriced EX card to a dealer I'm friendly with. However, when I see a beater with an asking price over high Beckett, I won't waste my time looking through their other cards (unless I'm really, really, really bored). And it's not just raw but graded as well. Cards that usually trade at $X on the Bay are marked up 50-100+% higher at shows.
The customer service has really gone down hill since the days when I use to set up. Every warm body that comes up should be considered a potential sale. It seems that the dealer would rather sit in his/her chair, looking randomly into space rather than give you a friendly "Hello, how may I help you?". Don't get me wrong, there are still some dealers that will go out of their way to meet and greet you; however, a vast majority is the earlier description.
Combine these two and it's hard for me to justify spending money on cards unless it's extremely hard to find a certain item.
With all that being said (and assuming I'm not the only one who feels this way), autographs have become the show's biggest draw. I usually purchase the VIP package, so I'm essentially forced to attend each day. If it's not appealing enough, I'll only attend the days the guest is signing. I'll browse around in between autographs and 9 out of 10 times, I'll pass on whatever I see.
To sum it up, since I use to be in the business many moons ago, I understand overhead and such. Having said that, if they are unable to cover their $300 table fee with those prices, they probably shouldn't be setting up at shows. I think eBay is killing the average dealer because they are unable to adjust (for whatever reason) their business model to compete.
I know that sounds like I'm generalizing but I am not saying every single dealer is a greedy bad guy.
/ gets off soap box and prepared to be flamed
I think it would be funny sometime for a collector to take his wireless laptop to a show, find a dealer unwilling to negotiate on a graded vintage card, then pull up the Ebay history on the same card showing auction results for 40% less than his asking price and show it to the dealer. Then tell him not to complain that he can't make money at shows.
All that said, I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that Tri Star just cancelled all these shows without explanation. From what I observed attending their shows over the past 5 years, they treated the card aspect of the show as a necessary evil. But it's still galling, especially when they intend to use the cost cutting to fund a minor league card production business. Jeesh.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
"Dude, I have been to nearly every Houston TriStar show they have ever had and have never seen this so I have to disagree with you there, but let me explain. TriStar charges $10.00 admission to their show. I've turned around and gone to a gun show there (GRB) the following weekend and only pay $5.00 admission (same with any other GRB event). The same applies to the dealer tables. TriStar charges around $300.00 (could be more) for each dealer table, but the dealers at the gun shows only pay $50-$75 per table. Does the GRB charge TriStar twice the price for rental so they have to charge twice the price for admission and dealer tables? Certainlly not. Everybody on these boards is quick to point out a fraudulant eBayer, but TriStar is the biggest rip off of all time. ".>>
So you are disagreeing that Tri-Star is not filling their rented area from front to back with dealer tables? If you say they are filled, then you clearly haven't been there for the past 5 years or so. Each show gets smaller and smaller. In the mid to late '90s they did fill the hall and the table prices were somewhat reasonable. Then with the collapse of modern cards and the advent of eBay, fewer dealers set up. So if they are renting the same space (and now probably for more money) and fewer dealers, what do they have to do to stay afloat? Raise the table rates. So the table rates go up, several more dealers bail out. Table rates go up again and more dealers bail out and you have a repeated cycle of higher table prices and fewer dealers. I venture to say that the gun shows are filled and that's the major reason for lower table prices.
I'm not defending Tri-Star here - someone needs to tell them the early '90s is over and clearly they in this for the money. But I also think it's quite reckless to equate fraudulant eBay sellers with promotors who charge high prices. One is a criminal, the other is just a capitalist.
Again, as long as they keep paying premium facility rates for a venue they only use a small portion of, the Tri-Star show will continue to alienate dealers, which will also alienate collectors who find the $17 for admission and parking to see 3 or 4 vintage card dealers is a complete waste of time and money.
<< <i>So you are disagreeing that Tri-Star is not filling their rented area from front to back with dealer tables? >>
Not at all because I know it's gets smaller every show. Walking in, to the far left, is wasted empty space for yo-gi (or whatever it's called). Then going towards the back, the curtains have been moving closer in and the BBQ stand is getting cruddier.. Would you like some brisket to go with that fat?
Bleh
Edit: Ooops, thought you were talking to me
I still stand by the cruddy BBQ, though. Since I was in the mood for good BBQ for the Saturday's show, I went to Goode Co's for lunch rather than eat that slop
Allen & Ginter Cards
My Blog -- Ballcard Mania
I feel bad for the DFW collectors for losing their shows. Seriously, that really sucks..
Having said that, in theory and on paper, by consolidating the shows, it should make the Houston shows more appealing and hopefully bring a better turnout for dealers, customers, and signers. Perhaps this isn't their gameplan and I don't mean to sound like a TriStar apologist.
Just wishful thinking.
<< <i>
<< <i>The ONLY reason to go the the Boston show was to get auto's. I have a photo of Boggs, Brett, and MAttingly I am working on getting signed. The three top HOF'ers of the 80's! Yes HOF'ers >>
HOFer's???? I count 2 & there is about 15-20 other ones better than that other guy. :-) >>
I figured he'd having Murray, Brett and Henderson sign the photo.
I would like to agree with with Stown in the fact that if they are going to cancel their Arlington show, then hopefully the Houston show would be that much better. However, after seeing the autograph line up at the last Houston show, that hasn't been the case so far. After all, how many times can you have Biggio, Berkman and Oswalt (they were free at Fan Fest just a couple of weeks before) at the same show?
TriStar WILL price theirselves out of business (at least their shows) - mark my words. Yes, this is America and everybody has a right to make a profit - and a decent one at that, but there is a differnece between making a profit and gouging people. I made a couple of examples in my last posting, but I have some more. If you'll remember back the last time the Patriots won the Super Bowl, TriStar announced a private signing with Tom Brady prior to the SB. On their website it stated that the autograph prices would be announced after the SB and of course New England won and Brady's autograph was very expensive ( I think around $175). Do you think it would have been the same price had the Pats lost? It probably would have still been high, but not as expensive! Why would TriStar wait until after the SB to determine autograph prices? Because they are greedy! Also, why does TriStar charge $150.00 for Nolan Ryan and Dluhy is going to have a private signing with him later his month and the autos start at $40.00. Shame on Nolan for charging TriStar more for his services than he does Dluhy! Get real, TriStar is screwing people and people are just letting them. Same with Pence - Dluhy is having him sign this weekend as well. Same with Berkman - I got his autograph on a bat several years ago at a show in Lake Jackson for $5.00, but TriStar wants to charge $150.00 for Berkman to sign a bat at the last show. I could go on and on, but you get the point!
The attitude of the dealers was also pointed out. Yes, some of them won't even look up at you because they are talking to the dealer at the next table or whatever and too pre-occupied with something else to ask if you need any help. However, I've heard nothing about the autograph guests that do the same thing. Ever paid $175.00 for Joe Montana, wait in line and then he never looks up at you? I paid for his service, he could at least acknowledge that I am there. At least if a dealer blows me off I do not have to patronize his table. Then you have guys like Jerry Rice who offered his hand first, I shook it and he said, "Thanks for coming out". That's how the dealers should be.
Again, TriStar is the only ones making any money - that's a FACT! The dealers certainly are not, that's why they're not setting up. That is the reason for the cancellation of shows. After all, you can have the finest hotel with luxury rooms and suites, but if they are vacant then the hotel won't be in business very long!
What's most telling is that a group of PSA/DNA authenticated and slabbed Goal line Art cards recently sold on E-bay (as individual auctions) where maybe 30% of the cards didn't sell for the grading fee and 75%+ didn't sell for the combined grading fee and autograph fee (based on what the player normally charges). That's a pretty sad statement for anyone collecting autographs - that much of your investment is thrown out the window the minute the ink starts to dry....
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
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E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
TriStar is not gouging because as you said in your post, it is possible to get the same autographs at cheaper prices. Think of it as a greeting fee paid to be face-to-face with the athlete. Additionally, business wise, they are trying to remove the middle man from putting their freshly signed autos on eBay. As Greg posted above, if you only care about the sig, you can buy some perfectly good autograph at +/- grading fees. Others below cost.
Also, if it was a fact that TriStar was the only one making money, why do I know several dealers that do?
It sounds like you have a beef with TriStar, so perhaps you should change your tone to reflect opinions rather than facts..
Again, I'm not a TriStar apologist.. Just my opinion based upon personal experiences