HELP I am getting hosed here

easydoesit · May 22, 2007 9:48AM

I bought a lot of "vintage" off line that was listed on ebay.. The seller had a 1600+ rating all positive. He had sold many high dollar cards, we spoke on the phone, several emails etc. I NEVER buy stuff on ebay but this time I decided to take a chance. Supposedly over 6000 cards from teh 50s and 60s, over 3000 cards from the 70s, over 100 tobaccos, 3 mantles etc etc etc Anyway we agreed on 3300. I send out the cashiers check and he gets it on Thursday. I never hear from him despite repeated email attempts and phone attempts. I go Monday morning to stop payment, starts to feel fishy. I get the box today, right on schedule. I open it. Over 6500 70s cards all common and all beat to crap. About 3000 50s and 60s all beat but does include the stars pictured. The tobaccos... 3 t206 cards all common and 90+ british cigarette cards. Now I cant get a response, an email, a call back, nothing. Obviously I want a refund as this lot is not what we agreed to. The bank check stop payment may or may not have been in time, I won't know until Friday or Monday. The lady at the bank said these only take a day to clear so if he cashed it on Thursday it cleared Friday and my stop means nothing.

Am I screwed? Any suggestions. $3300 is about my entire card buying/selling bank roll. He is in Chicago and am in Rochester, NY.

I feel like absolute crap to have taken a chance on a big lot after 8 yearss on ebay and gotten exactly what I expected might happen. So dumb, I am to trust anyone... no offense to anyone reading this.

Graphix · May 22, 2007 9:53AM

Link to the auction?

Barfvader · May 22, 2007 10:06AM

Was it This One?

Graphix · May 22, 2007 10:10AM

If it was I think this says it all....

Lot is sold as is. No returns.

edited to add: I think if you did not stop payment quick enough your screwed. Did you ask for a detailed breakdown of the Tobacco Cards? A play on words that they were not what you thought they were but still are tobacco cards.

storm888 · May 22, 2007 10:15AM

Was it This One?

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There was a thread here about that listing, a few days ago.

easydoesit ---- Did you do this deal on EBAY, or off EBAY?

Either way, the check is likely a goner. EBAY no longer offers
any "buyer protection," except that available through PayPal.

RipublicaninMass · May 22, 2007 10:20AM

guys feedback is all modern stuff as well, I guess it could have been consignments

WinPitcher · May 22, 2007 10:34AM

Powerscrewer.................., EBAY needs to use the escrow thingy again.

Sorry this happened to you.

edited: His store is empty and he is sellong 0 items.

does not sound good.

Steve

grote15 · May 22, 2007 10:46AM

I'm very sorry to hear about this, easydoesit. I hope you can recoup your money somrhow, but sending a bank check to this jerk was definitely ill-advised. These huge hoards of vintage cards always sound fishy to me.

SidePocket · May 22, 2007 11:16AM

If you used a cashier's check you're out of luck. Can't place a stop payment unless it's lost or stolen, and then only after a 90 day waiting period. That's why it's considered good as cash. I think your bank is misleading you.

jimq112 · May 22, 2007 11:24AM

<< If you used a cashier's check you're out of luck. Can't place a stop payment unless it's lost or stolen, and then only after a 90 day waiting period. That's why it's considered good as cash. I think your bank is misleading you. >>

Kind of a technicality, but if you're using a cashier's or treasurer's or "official" check drawn by a bank it's good as gold, but if it's from a savings & loan or a credit union you can stop payment.

The bank check has the drawer and the maker as the same party so it can't be stopped, the drawer and maker are different in a credit union cashier's check. I went thru that trying to save myself from an internet scammer a few years ago, and because of that technicality I ended up losing $1400 instead of $5500.

SidePocket · May 22, 2007 11:34AM

Perhaps the S&L or C.U. treat it like a money order? In any event good luck easy.

storm888 · May 22, 2007 11:39AM

Does anybody recall the title of the thread that
featured the subject listing? It was a few days ago,
but I cannot find it.

It was one of those "look at this carp" kind of threads.

Graphix · May 22, 2007 11:45AM

storm,

if you posted to the thread or can remember anyone who did you can search by author and that may help narrow down the search, sorry I didn't see it.

Graphix · May 22, 2007 11:47AM

here ya go

dalew · May 22, 2007 12:01PM

Screw you for bidding on cardboard.

easydoesit · May 22, 2007 12:09PM

Yes that was it.

Chris

easydoesit · May 22, 2007 12:16PM

This does not look good. It was off ebay although it sounds like other than a negative feedback it wouldn't have meant anything. I should have trusted my gut not to buy anything. This really hurts after 15 years of treating right to get taken for this amount for something I KNEW BETTER than to do. You better believe if the check is not stopped I will pursue. According to HSBC bank manager that I filed with, the stop check CAN occur even on a bank check.

He is not answering emails or calls, this really sucks. Makes my want to sell it all and give up for good. Can't trust anybody anymore, crappy world.

nam812 · May 22, 2007 12:21PM

You DO have his address. Just something to think about.

grote15 · May 22, 2007 12:27PM

You DO have his address. Just something to think about.

Agreed. And for the amount in question, I'd make sure he may expect a visit, too.

Graphix · May 22, 2007 12:27PM

I am not trying to rub salt here but from the description you gave (which was generic) versus what you got doesn't sound like you got beat at all. I understand this was for a big $$ amount and I feel for you that you are disappointed but you paid, the seller delivered and you are not happy with what you got. Did you assume he meant all the tobacco cards were T206? Did you ask him prior to the deal? The other thing is he posted sold as is no refunds in his auction terms. Did you ask him about a return policy prior to dealing off eBay? Again, I know this really sucks but what communication was there prior to agreeing to the deal?

Boopotts · May 22, 2007 12:28PM

<< This does not look good. It was off ebay although it sounds like other than a negative feedback it wouldn't have meant anything. I should have trusted my gut not to buy anything. This really hurts after 15 years of treating right to get taken for this amount for something I KNEW BETTER than to do. You better believe if the check is not stopped I will pursue. According to HSBC bank manager that I filed with, the stop check CAN occur even on a bank check.

He is not answering emails or calls, this really sucks. Makes my want to sell it all and give up for good. Can't trust anybody anymore, crappy world. >>

There are a lot of people in this hobby you can trust. Unfortunately that group rarely includes people who offer to sell you a horde of 9000 tobacco cards, Mantles, and 50's-70's cards sight unseen for $.30 a card.

Barfvader · May 22, 2007 1:09PM

<< I am not trying to rub salt here but from the description you gave (which was generic) versus what you got doesn't sound like you got beat at all. I understand this was for a big $$ amount and I feel for you that you are disappointed but you paid, the seller delivered and you are not happy with what you got. Did you assume he meant all the tobacco cards were T206? >>

Ah, but you needed to see the pics that were in the auction. I did see them and can say that there were many big name cards pictured and what looked like at least 100 T206 cards. But since he has removed the pics from the auction that proof is now gone.

This is the only picture that remains on eBay and because it's so small you really can't tell what's there.

Graphix · May 22, 2007 1:16PM

Agreed. I still think this had buyer beware all over it.

storm888 · May 22, 2007 1:36PM

"It's like having a message board devoted to exposing crooked carnival games or envelope stuffing schemes. Everyone who two active brain cells already knows these are cons,, so what's the point in rehashing them even further?"

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I am not sure whether the fact that a board member
fell for the scam means that it is hopeless to rehash
such scams, OR whether it means such scams need
to be rehashed even more.

In any event, the scam was brought to this board's attention
on March 10. It was clearly pronounced/judged a scam by
the folks who posted to the thread.

Maybe the moral is: Check in with this board b4 you buy
into what looks like a scam.

If the OP had asked about the listing, he would have been
sent to the thread, AND saved $3K.

I guess it is hopeless.

Manofmoe · May 22, 2007 1:57PM

I started the thread on this auction back in March because it seemed that this lot, even moreso than most had "too good to be true" written all over it. Worthwhile vintage collections simply do not show up on ebay in tubs with no Paypal accepted. It's a shame that a board member got stuck on this one.

Mike

perkdog · May 23, 2007 1:02AM

There is no doubt I would check in with board members before making such a purchase, in most cases a buyer can get some type of feedback from someone here who has dealt with an ebay salesman at some point or other.

Sorry this happened to you

Graphix · May 24, 2007 10:24AM

Any updates available? Where you able to stop payment in time? Hoping for the best.

easydoesit · May 24, 2007 11:09AM

Well, nothing yet. I did upset him enough that he finally emailed me back. My bank says I will know tomorrow or Tuesday if the check was stopped in time. Here is my last email I sent him to which he responded "stop emailing me, I am blocking your address"

Here are you exact emails Wally and my responce which you restated in our phone conversation. These two statements are both bold lies. Even if I gave you the benefit of the doubt on what a 1/3 actually means, not even a complete moron would call 6400 out of 10,000 cards 1/3.

"I'd guess at a 3rd of them. for what offer I been getting I'm going to just take the mto a local show soon. and let people pick them apart. the offers i get isn't worth the high end pieces alone."

"there all older, most of them are all before 74 to early 1900"

Well I am interested, what is the best offer you can give me and still make some money? A third of 70s means about 6000 cards are 60s and earlier which is what I want. Tell me the bottom line and go from there. Your rating is 1600 mine is almost 1100, we both have been selling cards in ebay for a while, we both know the deal and routine.

Furthermore I am going to continue to email you, and I am sure ebay will too after I inform them how you contacted me for this sale, that the other guy did not pay. That is if indeed there ever was "another guy". According to the stats, that "other guy" does a fair amount of bidding on your stuff. I am betting he knew that paypal was not ok. I'm guilty with ebay too, I should have said NO NOT INTERESTED to your offer, but I am willing to take my lumps with them. I know ebay wont help me in this matter to recover my funds, I should know tomorrow or Tuesday whether my stop payment was in time, and if not then I absolutely will do whatever it takes to rectify this situation. I have already offered you a counter offer that costs you NOT one dime to accept and in fact probably makes a little because that box did not cost $100 to ship. Hell I'd even throw another hundred your way just to get this down now. Ive got the email proof and my notes from our phone call. I have all the sent emails that went unresponded to for several days as well.

If you chose to handle this by not returning my emails and ending all talks that is fine, but it will not just go away. If you would have sent 1/3 70s and 2/3 50s and 60s this deal, although still crappy cards, would have been done. But you did not send what you said. If the shoe was on the other foot you would feel the same way. I cant do anything about the intentional diseption on the tobacco cards, it was wonderfully worded even though you said they were all sports cards.

Thank you for the several responses and support in this. To the person who said anyone with 2 brain cells could see this was a crap auction, blow it out of your _ _ _. I think my 2 brain cells do ok in this hobby/business. This will make the 2nd time in over 15 years of active buying and selling that I will lose money on a deal or any size. So don't be so quick to call me out as dumb for doing this.

This was the first ever time I tried buying a lot of vintage off ebay. What was promised from a 1600 plus feedback member was 6300 pre 1970 cards and 3700 post 1970 cards including many starts pictured. There was to be 100 tobacco cards in an "ALL SPORTSCARD" auction. For $3300 I'm into the vintage at about 50 cents a card and can get about $100 for each t206 that grades 4 or higher. With those odds, and a confirmation phone call, I felt about as good as you can buying one of these lots sight unseen.

I should have went with my gut and not bought but its easy to say that after the fact. It does reaffirm, unfortunately, some of my beliefs in the people around this hobby. That is not intended to be offensive to anyone, as I feel this board is about as good as it gets in cards. In fact I rejoined basically for the 6 submissions and the use of this board to buy,sell, trade.

Ill let you know after Tuesday how it went. Hope for the best.

CDsNuts · May 24, 2007 11:20AM

I went down this route with a guy that sold me some resealed wax. You're trying to reason with someone that's attempting to steal your money. You're not getting anything back from him so your only hope is that the stop payment goes through. Other than that, you could have some legal recourse if you want to get a lawyer, and you could probably file a police report just for the hell of it. I hope everything works out.

Lee

easydoesit · May 24, 2007 11:53AM

Thanks. I did have luck once before going through the attourney general office of the state. They all have internet fraud divisions now. You probably are right and I am crossing everything humanly possible that the check stops.

I realize chances are slim. I'll probably add all my other vintage I have here at the house to it and through it back out on ebay. With all the stuff I have to add, it would at least be worth the $3300 then. The vintage I have left is basically free at this point based on what I ve already sold, so although I would be losing profit, I might be able to get back my money.

Just makes we want to sell it all really. Makes me sick,

jmbkb4 · May 24, 2007 1:26PM

<< 

<< This does not look good. It was off ebay although it sounds like other than a negative feedback it wouldn't have meant anything. I should have trusted my gut not to buy anything. This really hurts after 15 years of treating right to get taken for this amount for something I KNEW BETTER than to do. You better believe if the check is not stopped I will pursue. According to HSBC bank manager that I filed with, the stop check CAN occur even on a bank check.

He is not answering emails or calls, this really sucks. Makes my want to sell it all and give up for good. Can't trust anybody anymore, crappy world. >>

There are a lot of people in this hobby you can trust. Unfortunately that group rarely includes people who offer to sell you a horde of 9000 tobacco cards, Mantles, and 50's-70's cards sight unseen for $.30 a card. >>

Another awesome (and funny) post. True.

dude · May 24, 2007 11:35PM

Was any promise made (written or verbal) in regards to condition? If not, I'm afraid you don't have a leg to stand on unless you can find some other way he misrepresented his goods. If he did misrepresent his cards, you may try to file a complaint with the postal service and the postal inspectors are pretty good about tracking down scammers.

I was also under the impression from my bank, Bank of America, that a cashiers check can't be canceled.

Finally, if you do get stuck it's not a complete loss. I'm sure you can resell this with full disclosure and at least get a fraction of your money back.

easydoesit · May 25, 2007 6:34AM

correct I can resell the lot with disclosure. In fact I went through the lot last night for the first time, and there are at least 2000+ real vintage cards that dont have any creases. Couple that with the probably 1000 or more I have left here and I can create a good lot of real vintage 1973 and prior cards that includes high numbers, stars, etc. I will get some money back that way.

To the post about this being 9000 tobacco cards, I never said that nor would I even consider that purchasing that lot as realistic at that price.

MY HSCB bank rep has informed me that ALL checks can be stopped, the difference is in the amount of days to clear. IN fact I spoke with a rep today that said the money may even be recoverable if he deposited the money into an acct. If he cashed it for green cash, then you are out of luck.

The issue here is not the condition the issue is the breakdown of the lot. I was promised 6400 cards from 1909 to 1969 and about 3600 from 1970 to 1979. The lot came through the opposite. About 6500 70s cards and 3500 60s and older. I knew this lot was a vg/ex lot when I bought it. The lie was in the break down of the cards, and the desecption was in the all sports cards auction that feature 100 tobacco cards that werent all sports.

Ill keep you posted, I'm not dead yet...

easydoesit · May 25, 2007 7:56AM

NEW NEWS!!!!! I JUST GOT TWO CALLS FROM HSBC. THE CHECK WAS STOPPED AND ACCORDING TO THEIR RECORDS THE MONEY SHOULD BE BACK IN MY ACCT ON WEDNESDAY NEXT WEEK. I WILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT, AND IF THIS IS THE CASE... ANOTHER LESSON WELL LEARNED. THANKS AGAIN TO THE SUPPORTIVE COMMENTS NO MATTER HOW THIS TURNS OUT... THANK YOU.

CHRIS

CDsNuts · May 25, 2007 1:11PM

Sweet. Now you have two roads to travel:

- You can send the cards back and be done with it (probably the best way to go)
- You can keep the cards and profit off the anxiety this guy put you through (Some would justify it as an eye-for-an-eye since he did make an attempt to steal from you)

Me, I would just want to be done with it and have this jackass out of my life, but you can't discount the revenge factor either. I guess it depends if you believe in karma or not. Either way, at least the ball's in your court because he clearly was never going to do the right thing. 14 day refund my a$$.

Lee

ripkenintheminors · May 25, 2007 1:20PM

I think I'd send them back with plenty of documentation verifying that they were sent. The last thing you want is for the guy to start claiming that you stopped payment after he sent the cards.

CDsNuts · May 25, 2007 1:31PM

Yeah, that too.

Lee

HELP I am getting hosed here

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