COLL: COllector's Lessons Learned
danp306
Posts: 80
If this isn’t the right forum for this, let me know I’ll move it.
As I’ve mentioned before, I’m knew to card collecting. I decided to put some of my “lessons learned” as a forum topic that we all can update/comment on and learn from. I guess the real experienced collectors don’t need this, but us newbie’s do! Of course, you won’t all agree with me, but I really believe my comments below are true (especially for the new collectors).
Here’s my 22 steps to avoid learning the hard way (like I did):
Using EBAY:
1. I won’t do a “non researched seller” buy from anyone unless there feedback is 99.8% of higher and they have at least 200 feedbacks. Some scammers make around 100 successful sales before trying for the big score (I almost learned this the hard way with a Mays RC).
2. If they have 99.5% - 99.7% I will do research before buying (and won’t buy if they don’t have at least 200 feedbacks). I won’t even look at any one lower than 99.5%.
3. Very seldom will I buy from anyone who does not accept Paypal.
4. Use sniping software. It’s a lot better than sitting around making sure you get your bid in on the last second. Do a “search” in the forums for recommendations on what to buy.
Buying cards:
5. Unless it’s a real difficult card I’ll wait for the card to be PSA for 1930’s – present and SGC for 1887 - 1920’s. Unless I have no other options, I’m not buying then crossing over any more (to much time, $$ and worrying about the card making the crossover grade). Of course, these are my personal preferences. I’m actually toying with crossing all my cards to PSA so I can add them to the registry.
6. I will not buy any wax packs, factory wrapped boxes, etc. I read too many horror stories about buyers being ripped off with this stuff. I only bought one and can almost guarantee it was already opened and carefully resealed. I just don’t know enough about this stuff and don’t feel like blowing any more money.
7. Unless you’re an expert, don’t buy raw cards on EBAY and hope that they’ll be high grade. 99% of the time if it was a high grade, the seller would have had it graded. Chances are it was already sent in and didn’t meet the high grade (or broken out of a lower grade case and marketed that it “should be graded because I think it’s a 9 …”).
8. Removed; same as #18
9. NAXCOM: This is where you post your cards that are not really for sale, but you’ll sell if you get your price (which is usually much higher than you’d get selling on EBAY). I don’t even look at NAXCOM any more.
10. Forget about SMR for pricing. I can’t believe people even use this as I guide. From what I’ve found the prices are not accurate as to what cards are going for. This leads us to:
11. If you are buying vintage cards regularly, join vintagecardprices.com. I can’t remember what I paid to join, but whatever it was it was worth every penny. What better way to judge what you should pay for a card than to view the most recent sales.
12. For the most part, forget about buying cards at sports memorabilia shows. The prices are ridiculous as compared to buying off EBAY. OK, I guess you can find some deals if you look hard, but that’s not what usually happens. I still enjoy walking around at the shows and almost always buy a card or two (but every card I’ve purchased I overpaid, even after negotiating).
13. Don’t underestimate how important the centering of the player on the card is. There is at least a 20% +/- premium on a perfectly centered card.
14. Pay attention to qualifiers when buying PSA cards. SGC factors it into the grade, PSA doesn’t unless you request it when grading the card. Some sellers don’t advertise clearly when a card has a mark, is OC, etc. I won’t buy any OC cards any more, even if they are 50% less.
15. There are different levels for each grade. For example, not all PSA 4’s are the same. I can’t believe the difference some time. I guess some could be a borderline (low end) PSA 4 and others could have just missed a PSA5 (or either could have been mis-graded). I wish PSA would start doing sub grades, but I don’t see that happening. As I’ve read some of the members here say: “buy the card, not the holder”. The only problem with that is:
16. Some sellers are using software to enhance the images of their cards. I take a snapshot of the card and log the serial # in a spreadsheet after I make a purchase. This way when you receive the card you can make sure you received what you paid for.
17. Be patient when buying off the EBAY auctions. I used to get mad after loosing a couple of auctions and bid too high the next time to make sure I got the card (that’s how I ended up with a PSA5 Mantle RC for a PSA6 price!).
18. Most of the time the BIN price is too high. Of course, there are exceptions, but 90% of the time you’re better off buying via the auction.
19. There are buyers who will bid a ridiculously high price at the last second to ensure they win an auction. For example, card should be $500. Buyer bids $1200 to make sure they get the card (figuring they’ll end up paying around $600 and are OK with that). The only problem with this is when 2 buyers do the same thing (OK, I’ve done this also, just been lucky it wasn’t the same time some other idiot did it).
20. Sorry guys, I don’t buy into this: “If you got the card you want, what does it matter if you overpaid”. Why would you pay higher than you should (unless you have a strong feeling the card value is going up)? If we didn’t have the internet and easy access to auctions I guess I could agree since it would be so much work to put a collection together (and time is $$$). But we now can easily find almost any card without a lot of manual labor (it may take time, but let EBAY, VCP, etc do the work for you). Now of course, there are exceptions (those rare cards that don’t come up for auction very often).
21. Cards sold at the major auction houses are usually more expensive than the same cards sold on EBAY. I’m not sure exactly why. I guess some of the high rollers are more comfortable buying from a major auction house than on EBAY.
Miscellaneous:
22. Read the forums. It’s unbelievable how much you can learn from all the experts that post here.
Believe it or not, I haven’t really been ripped off in any of my 300-400 card purchases over the past 1 ½ years. However, I estimate that I’ve blown $3k-$5k in buying mistakes over that time. All of these were my own fault. I’ve received every card I purchased, but made many bad purchases.
Some of my highlights:
BCCG 8 75 Topps George Brett RC Pd: $130 EBAY Value: $20
(BCCG, they are Beckett so they must be legit)
PSA 3 33 Goudey Dazzy Vance Pd: $170 NAX Value: $89
(just overpaid)
Raw 1934-36 Batter-Up Al Lopez Pd: $180 Show Value: $40
(didn’t notice the paper loss on the back)
GAI Auth 1887 A&G Tim Keefe Pd: $300 Show Value: $140
(re-backed and SGC will not holder it)
SGC84 57 Topps Drysdale Pd: $275 Forum Value: $90
(did not crossover to PSA7, ended up PSA6)
There are many more mistakes; those were the ones I thought of off of the top of my head. I actually did make some decent deals, but nothing spectacular.
Sorry this was so long. I guess I got carried away!!!
I’ll add more lessons learned as I think of them, feel free to join in.
Dan
As I’ve mentioned before, I’m knew to card collecting. I decided to put some of my “lessons learned” as a forum topic that we all can update/comment on and learn from. I guess the real experienced collectors don’t need this, but us newbie’s do! Of course, you won’t all agree with me, but I really believe my comments below are true (especially for the new collectors).
Here’s my 22 steps to avoid learning the hard way (like I did):
Using EBAY:
1. I won’t do a “non researched seller” buy from anyone unless there feedback is 99.8% of higher and they have at least 200 feedbacks. Some scammers make around 100 successful sales before trying for the big score (I almost learned this the hard way with a Mays RC).
2. If they have 99.5% - 99.7% I will do research before buying (and won’t buy if they don’t have at least 200 feedbacks). I won’t even look at any one lower than 99.5%.
3. Very seldom will I buy from anyone who does not accept Paypal.
4. Use sniping software. It’s a lot better than sitting around making sure you get your bid in on the last second. Do a “search” in the forums for recommendations on what to buy.
Buying cards:
5. Unless it’s a real difficult card I’ll wait for the card to be PSA for 1930’s – present and SGC for 1887 - 1920’s. Unless I have no other options, I’m not buying then crossing over any more (to much time, $$ and worrying about the card making the crossover grade). Of course, these are my personal preferences. I’m actually toying with crossing all my cards to PSA so I can add them to the registry.
6. I will not buy any wax packs, factory wrapped boxes, etc. I read too many horror stories about buyers being ripped off with this stuff. I only bought one and can almost guarantee it was already opened and carefully resealed. I just don’t know enough about this stuff and don’t feel like blowing any more money.
7. Unless you’re an expert, don’t buy raw cards on EBAY and hope that they’ll be high grade. 99% of the time if it was a high grade, the seller would have had it graded. Chances are it was already sent in and didn’t meet the high grade (or broken out of a lower grade case and marketed that it “should be graded because I think it’s a 9 …”).
8. Removed; same as #18
9. NAXCOM: This is where you post your cards that are not really for sale, but you’ll sell if you get your price (which is usually much higher than you’d get selling on EBAY). I don’t even look at NAXCOM any more.
10. Forget about SMR for pricing. I can’t believe people even use this as I guide. From what I’ve found the prices are not accurate as to what cards are going for. This leads us to:
11. If you are buying vintage cards regularly, join vintagecardprices.com. I can’t remember what I paid to join, but whatever it was it was worth every penny. What better way to judge what you should pay for a card than to view the most recent sales.
12. For the most part, forget about buying cards at sports memorabilia shows. The prices are ridiculous as compared to buying off EBAY. OK, I guess you can find some deals if you look hard, but that’s not what usually happens. I still enjoy walking around at the shows and almost always buy a card or two (but every card I’ve purchased I overpaid, even after negotiating).
13. Don’t underestimate how important the centering of the player on the card is. There is at least a 20% +/- premium on a perfectly centered card.
14. Pay attention to qualifiers when buying PSA cards. SGC factors it into the grade, PSA doesn’t unless you request it when grading the card. Some sellers don’t advertise clearly when a card has a mark, is OC, etc. I won’t buy any OC cards any more, even if they are 50% less.
15. There are different levels for each grade. For example, not all PSA 4’s are the same. I can’t believe the difference some time. I guess some could be a borderline (low end) PSA 4 and others could have just missed a PSA5 (or either could have been mis-graded). I wish PSA would start doing sub grades, but I don’t see that happening. As I’ve read some of the members here say: “buy the card, not the holder”. The only problem with that is:
16. Some sellers are using software to enhance the images of their cards. I take a snapshot of the card and log the serial # in a spreadsheet after I make a purchase. This way when you receive the card you can make sure you received what you paid for.
17. Be patient when buying off the EBAY auctions. I used to get mad after loosing a couple of auctions and bid too high the next time to make sure I got the card (that’s how I ended up with a PSA5 Mantle RC for a PSA6 price!).
18. Most of the time the BIN price is too high. Of course, there are exceptions, but 90% of the time you’re better off buying via the auction.
19. There are buyers who will bid a ridiculously high price at the last second to ensure they win an auction. For example, card should be $500. Buyer bids $1200 to make sure they get the card (figuring they’ll end up paying around $600 and are OK with that). The only problem with this is when 2 buyers do the same thing (OK, I’ve done this also, just been lucky it wasn’t the same time some other idiot did it).
20. Sorry guys, I don’t buy into this: “If you got the card you want, what does it matter if you overpaid”. Why would you pay higher than you should (unless you have a strong feeling the card value is going up)? If we didn’t have the internet and easy access to auctions I guess I could agree since it would be so much work to put a collection together (and time is $$$). But we now can easily find almost any card without a lot of manual labor (it may take time, but let EBAY, VCP, etc do the work for you). Now of course, there are exceptions (those rare cards that don’t come up for auction very often).
21. Cards sold at the major auction houses are usually more expensive than the same cards sold on EBAY. I’m not sure exactly why. I guess some of the high rollers are more comfortable buying from a major auction house than on EBAY.
Miscellaneous:
22. Read the forums. It’s unbelievable how much you can learn from all the experts that post here.
Believe it or not, I haven’t really been ripped off in any of my 300-400 card purchases over the past 1 ½ years. However, I estimate that I’ve blown $3k-$5k in buying mistakes over that time. All of these were my own fault. I’ve received every card I purchased, but made many bad purchases.
Some of my highlights:
BCCG 8 75 Topps George Brett RC Pd: $130 EBAY Value: $20
(BCCG, they are Beckett so they must be legit)
PSA 3 33 Goudey Dazzy Vance Pd: $170 NAX Value: $89
(just overpaid)
Raw 1934-36 Batter-Up Al Lopez Pd: $180 Show Value: $40
(didn’t notice the paper loss on the back)
GAI Auth 1887 A&G Tim Keefe Pd: $300 Show Value: $140
(re-backed and SGC will not holder it)
SGC84 57 Topps Drysdale Pd: $275 Forum Value: $90
(did not crossover to PSA7, ended up PSA6)
There are many more mistakes; those were the ones I thought of off of the top of my head. I actually did make some decent deals, but nothing spectacular.
Sorry this was so long. I guess I got carried away!!!
I’ll add more lessons learned as I think of them, feel free to join in.
Dan
0
Comments
Do research and search eBay for recently completed auctions for prices.
<< <i>Sorry guys, I don’t buy into this: “If you got the card you want, what does it matter if you overpaid”. Why would you pay higher than you should (unless you have a strong feeling the card value is going up)?
Dan >>
Some of us are true collectors that don't care whether the price goes up, down, sideways, zigzag or scribble-scrabble chicken scratch. If we must have it, we will. Overpaid? Who is to say that the same item will surface later on? Especially if it's an obscure piece.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry guys, I don’t buy into this: “If you got the card you want, what does it matter if you overpaid”. Why would you pay higher than you should (unless you have a strong feeling the card value is going up)?
Dan >>
Some of us are true collectors that don't care whether the price goes up, down, sideways, zigzag or scribble-scrabble chicken scratch. If we must have it, we will. Overpaid? Who is to say that the same item will surface later on? Especially if it's an obscure piece. >>
True. That's why I added the condition regarding rare cards. I believe you (I guess). I'll always find it hard to believe that there are collectors out there that don't care at all about price. I guess one of the reasons that I care is because I am always looking to upgrade in which case I would sell the original card to help pay for the upgrade. Thanks for the comments. Dan
The one part I would change to make it easier than high and low grades of the same grade. Simple, buy the card and not the holder.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Regards
Gary
I would add that money spent on top-notch supplies - sheets, cardsavers, vault boxes, binders, display, etc. is money well spent. Pride in ownership (and enjoyment) should be as much fun as the chase.
Bosox1976
I think you have a great handle on things, but the one thing I noticed was your rule about seldom buying from people who don't accept paypal. You'll be surprised by how many people no longer accept paypal. I don't and there are several other members on these boards that don't either. Naturally, it's always wise to know your sellers, but sometimes you have to take a chance--provided it doesn't hurt the wallet too much. I've found in virtually every instance of a seller who didn't accept paypal, that 1) the cards went for a little less than comparable 'paypal accepted' auctions and 2) the cards were typically better than described.
Paul
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
this advice would have saved me thousands of $$. Patience. It took a while for it to sink in.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i><<<< Also, keep in mind when your buying and lose an auction that there will always be ANOTHER CARD (unless its pop is low but 99% no).>>>>
this advice would have saved me thousands of $$. Patience. It took a while for it to sink in. >>
YES, me also. I should have learned from the stock market, it's basically the same concept!! Thanks, Dan
I think we all have overpaid for a BIN, only to see the same card for for 20% less a few weeks later in an auction. thats frustrating.
I think we have all let a card we needed go because it was "to expensive", thinking another card will be along soon, only to still be waiting a year later, wondering.... like the ugly girl on prom night
Im currently looking, seeking, asking everyone I know and come into contact with about my white whale card, a 1977 topps #177 steve largent rc psa 10. What is that worth? SMR says $550, I know in the back of my mind what I would be willing to pay for one and Im pretty sure I wouldnt be waiting for another one to come along because it got to expensive.
I think we can all learn from this list. Thank you for spending the time for all of us to review. I don't agree with a couple of things that you listed.
#8 Don't buy from 707. Why would you call him out specifically over all the other dealers. His prices sometimes are high, but to avoid Levi completely because you think that all of his material is overpriced is ludicrous. He has prices listed on his website that sell for $100 higher on Ebay than on his website. Which brings me to the next issue of #13 centering and a premium. If you look at Levi's prices for let's say a 1957 Topps Mantle in a PSA 7. He may have four of those with all different pricing. He has priced the worst PSA 7 at SMR and then increased the price based on eye appeal for the others. Well according to your statement you need to buy a well centered card which can command a 20% increase. How do you know that he has not done this? This also leads to #15 with not all PSA 4's are the same condition. This is exactly why Levi has different pricing for everyone of his cards.
The differences between 707 and the rest of the dealers is Levi will price his cards on what HE feels the market value to be. He takes in consideration the next time he will have the opportunity to add this back into his inventory and the cost associated with that.
He has everything that you are looking for and does cater to the impatient.
While I agree on all your points, #8 would be the one that I would not agree with. He has helped me with some really tough cards for my collection.
Shane
<< <i>Dan,
I think we can all learn from this list. Thank you for spending the time for all of us to review. I don't agree with a couple of things that you listed.
#8 Don't buy from 707. Why would you call him out specifically over all the other dealers. His prices sometimes are high, but to avoid Levi completely because you think that all of his material is overpriced is ludicrous. .....
Shane >>
Shane: I understand what you are saying, and I can at least agree that I should not have singled him out. I bought one card from him, a 49 Leaf Newhouser that I could not find anywhere. However, before I joined VCP I really did look at his pricing at it helped me realize what I should be paying (20-40% less). I guess the only reason why that it was easy to pick out their listings is because they really standout (i.e. the inventory number in the title (####)). After thinking this over, you are correct. He's probably not any higher than just about everyone else who puts the high priced BIN amount out there in case the timing is right and you get your price. I'm will go back and adjust #8. Thanks. Dan
Are you a history geek? That Lincoln quote has always been a good one
joe
<< <i>Nick
Are you a history geek? That Lincoln quote has always been a good one
joe >>
I believe the origin of the quote is in doubt.
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that
shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. -- Bible, 'Proverbs'
17:28.
That may very well be the origin of the quote. Lincoln was a very deeply religious man, pulled alot of his speeches from the bible, or old speeches. If you google Lincolns quotes, that one is at the very top, right under his house divided speech and gettysburg
Alot of our great documents are plagerized, Thomas Jefferson took the body of the Declaration from John Lockes second treatise on Civil government, and the remainder from the Virgina declaration he had written months earlier.
gotta use that history degree somehow.