What do you consider the most unbreakable career and season baseball records?

Estil · November 14, 2006 11:04PM

Here's my picks:

Career - Cy Young's 511 career wins: You'd have to have 25 twenty win seasons (or twenty seasons of 25 wins each) and you're still eleven short. Now how do you expect anyone to even come close when 2006 NL Cy Young Award winner Brandon Webb managed a whole big sixteen wins for his award winning season?

Season - Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak: Pete Rose (with his 44 game streak in 1978) came the closest, but still fell a dozen games short, but at least he did tie the NL record (set in 1897 by Willie Keeler). It seems once a player gets to 30, the media will "jinx" him.

On a related note, I remember seeing a baseball book written in the mid to late 1970s that in their article about Lou Gehrig, they very confidentally and firmly stated that his consective games streak will never be broken. Ever. (yes, that's exactly how it was said) Boy were they wrong about that one.

Michigan · November 14, 2006 11:18PM

I don't think any record is "unbreakable". The two you mentioned I would put in the "highly unlikely" to be
broken but "unbreakable" makes it sound like guaranteed impossible and I don't believe that.

You never know if some superstar athletic is going to come along with skills and abilities beyond what anyone
has ever seen before. It might not happen in our lifetimes but there is always the possibility.

Estil · November 14, 2006 11:25PM

Maybe if Mr. Clemens pitches into his 60s he might have a chance. At the rate he's going... Nah, he has to retire sometime or he'll never get in the Hall of Fame.

WinPitcher · November 15, 2006 12:21AM

Season.............Joe D's record was thought to be a seaonal record. It is simply a consecutive game record and can be done over parts of seasons.

Jeter I believe ended the season with a 23 game hit streak. if he hits in his first 34 this year he will have broken the record.

last season when Rollins attempted it i at first thought that he would hold a different record.

MLB ruled differently.

I agree 511 wins will never be topped.

I also nominate the triples record as one that will be tuff to beat.

Steve

lostdart58 · November 15, 2006 12:32AM

Complete games......

stown · November 15, 2006 1:17AM

Records are meant to be broken.

Having said that, I don't see Ryan's career strikeouts being topped in our lifetime. Averaging over 250 Ks for 20 years?

They don't make them like they use to

rbdjr1 · November 15, 2006 1:34AM

All-time MLB leader in hits by a switch hitter!

Pete Rose!

Can you ever imagine another switch hitter breaking the all-time MLB hits record of Pete Rose?

I can't!

rd

P.S. Other fantastic switch hitters, imo: Mickey Mantle, Chipper Jones, Eddie Murray. But after Pete Rose? ....the "mold was broken!"

Rose finished his career with 4,256 hits, ...and he was a switch hitter!
Ty Cobb was the only other player in MLB history to break 4,000 hits (4,189).
Should Pete be in the Hall of Fame or not?

gregmo32 · November 15, 2006 2:38AM

I know it is not baseball, but John Stockton's career assist mark is way more untouchable than people realize. It stands up there with any of the baseball records in terms of the likelihood of being surpassed.

His total assist number is 15,806.
In the history of the NBA, only three players have ever had 1000 assists in a season. Kevin Porter and Isiah Thomas each did it once.
A player would have to AVERAGE 1000 assists per year for sixteen years (which is longer than almost any point guard even plays, let alone excels) to break the record.

Jason Kidd is a perennial leader in assists, and if he maintained his current strong pace without tapering off (9.2 APG Career) he would have to play over twenty years to reach the mark.

gregmo32 · November 15, 2006 2:39AM

And for baseball, it is Cy Youngs 511 wins. Untouchable!

IrishMike · November 15, 2006 2:40AM

Any records finalized and set before the mid-50's are debatable anyway.

onlyanumber · November 15, 2006 3:23AM

Cy Young's 511 Wins will never be touched. We will probably never see a 400 game winner again either.

I'll second Winpitcher on Chief Wilsons 36 triples in 1912. Closest we've seen in the past 50+ years was Lance Johnson with 21 in 1996. For that matter, Sam Crawford's lifetime record of 309 triples is close to unbreakable.

Ryan's strikeout mark will also be tough to top.

Boopotts · November 15, 2006 4:03AM

Ty Cobb stole home something like 65 times in his career. I think that's probably pretty safe.

coinkat · November 15, 2006 4:11AM

Walter Johnson... 113 career shut outs... last time looked, it seemed as safe as a record can be.

pandrews · November 15, 2006 4:52AM

rickey henderson, 130 steal season..

rbeaton · November 15, 2006 5:01AM

Single-Season Leaders for Games Started: Pud Galvin (1883) and Will White (1879) each started 75 games. I really doubt this will ever be broken.

Robert

perkdog · November 15, 2006 5:58AM

511 career wins would be impossible to break no matter which way you slice it.

bags05 · November 15, 2006 6:16AM

Cy Young's career wins is unbreakable. Almost as unbreakable is Johnny Vander Meer's consecutive no-hitters record. Three consecutive no-hitters is about as hard to fathom as anything in baseball.

detroitfan2 · November 15, 2006 6:49AM

The 2006 Detroit Tigers' pitching staff record of 25 errors (or whatever it was) in a 5 game World Series

.

Also, I guess it's not technically a record, but I doubt anyone will every hit 750+ career home runs and have an additional 3000+ hits (i.e. not counting the 750+ home runs) like Hank Aaron did.

grote15 · November 15, 2006 12:36PM

Cy Young's record has to be the most unbreakable of all records. After Glavine reaches 300 wins, we may not even see another 300-game winner in our lifetime, let alone 400, or 500 wins. Welch was the last pitcher to even win 25 games in a regular season in 1990, and that feat almost seems like an impossibility now. Pretty soon winning 20 games will be like winning 30 games was forty years ago.

softparade · November 15, 2006 12:44PM

<< Cy Young's 511 Wins will never be touched. We will probably never see a 400 game winner again either.

>>

As long as Roger Clemens still has a pulse 400 games is not safe

grote15 · November 15, 2006 12:47PM

I personally think that Clemens is a longshot to reach Matthewson at 373 wins, but he's the last of his generation, for sure. What I meant by my post is that after Glavine reaches 300 wins (as expected) sometime next season, we may not see another pitcher even reach 300 wins in our lifetime.

softparade · November 15, 2006 12:50PM

grote,

I agree. Its not that I actually think Clemens would ever approach 400 wins .... BUT .... he is such a freak it might be possible if that was what he really really wanted. It is just incredible that he sits at 341 wins and still is a great pitcher.

grote15 · November 15, 2006 1:42PM

Its not that I actually think Clemens would ever approach 400 wins .... BUT .... he is such a freak it might be possible if that was what he really really wanted. It is just incredible that he sits at 341 wins and still is a great pitcher.

Agreed. What he has accomplished is truly incredible. Had he started his career in a different era with the four-man rotation, he'd have been well past 400 wins.

Connecticoin · November 15, 2006 2:42PM

Denny McClain's 31 Wins.

Even the best starters now make 36 starts at the most. The only pitcher to even get a whiff at 30 in recent history was Pedro at 24-4 and before that it was way back to Guidry's 25-3 season.

ILikeMercs · November 15, 2006 2:59PM

<< Cy Young's 511 Wins will never be touched. We will probably never see a 400 game winner again either.

I'll second Winpitcher on Chief Wilsons 36 triples in 1912. Closest we've seen in the past 50+ years was Lance Johnson with 21 in 1996. For that matter, Sam Crawford's lifetime record of 309 triples is close to unbreakable.

Ryan's strikeout mark will also be tough to top. >>

and his 7 no-no's

doncherry · November 15, 2006 11:56PM

<< Denny McClain's 31 Wins.

Even the best starters now make 36 starts at the most. The only pitcher to even get a whiff at 30 in recent history was Pedro at 24-4 and before that it was way back to Guidry's 25-3 season. >>

Dennys 31 is the modern era record. Bob Welch went 27-6 in 1990 . Has anyone had more than that since Denny Mclains 31

RedHeart54 · November 16, 2006 1:27AM

The best thing that can be said about the aforementioned records (511 wins, 4256 hits, hitting in 56 games, 5000 Ks, etc) is these take consistency above all else, not brawn. Alas, is it fair to say that steroid use would be useless in attaining records like these? I doubt they'd even help a player hit .400.

jad22 · November 16, 2006 6:42AM

Nobody has really challenged the single season rbi records. I think Manny was the closest with 165 and nobody has really come close

fsjeter · November 16, 2006 7:55AM

<< What I meant by my post is that after Glavine reaches 300 wins (as expected) sometime next season, we may not see another pitcher even reach 300 wins in our lifetime. >>

You know, Randy Johnson is only 20 wins away from the 300 mark. He would have to suffer a total collapse to not average 10 wins over the next two seasons. If he can stay healthy, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he reach that next season. I agree that records were made to be broken but here are a few that I think will be safe for some time (some more safe than others!

):

Pitching
Season:
Old Haus Radbourn, 59 Wins
Matt Kilroy, 513 Strikeouts

Career:
Cy Young, 511 Wins
Cy Young, 749 Complete games
Nolan Ryan, 5,714 Strikeouts

Batting
Season:
Barry Bonds, 73 Home Runs (like it or not, it’s in the books)
Tip O’Neill, .485 Batting Average
Chief Wilson, 36 Triples

Career:
Ty Cobb, .366 Batting Average
Pete Rose, 4,256 Hits
Sam Crawford, 309 Triples
Rickey Henderson, 1,406 Stolen Bases
Tris Speaker, 792 Doubles
Sam Crawford, 51 Inside the Park Home Runs

Streaks

Joe DiMaggio, 56 Game Hitting Streak
Johnny Vander Meer, 2 straight no-hitters
Tom Seaver, 10 Consecutive strikeouts

Scott

bri2327 · November 16, 2006 8:06AM

<< Denny McClain's 31 Wins.

Even the best starters now make 36 starts at the most. The only pitcher to even get a whiff at 30 in recent history was Pedro at 24-4 and before that it was way back to Guidry's 25-3 season. >>

Pedro best was actually 23-4 in 1999

Bob Welch won 27 in 1990

Steve Stone won 25 in 1980

Others with at least 24 in recent history are Randy Johnson in 2002, John Smoltz in 1996, Frank Viola in 1988, Clemens in 1986, Gooden in 1985, Lamarr Hoyt in 1983, Steve Carlton in 1980.

I agree that 30 wins seem out of reach, unless some team decided to rework their system from the farm teams up and go back to a 4 man rotation. Even then, with pitch counts and relief pitching it seems very improbable.

A761506 · November 16, 2006 9:28AM

There is no doubt in my mind that Denny McLain will stand for the remainder of my lifetime as the last player in MLB history to ever win 31 games in a season.

I do think Joe Dimaggio's hit streak could be broken.

I also think Pete Rose's hit record could be topped by a solid hitter who plays for 24 seasons like Rose did. In his best single season, he recorded 230 hits. A guy like Ichiro, had he started playing in the majors at age 22 rather than 27, would easily have a chance at beating the record. Ichiro has yet to have a single season with under 206 hits, with a high of 262. If Ichiro could keep up his current pace and continue to average 225 hits a year, he would break the record in 13 seasons from now, when he is 45, same age Rose was when he retired. That is really not to far fetched, considering Ichiro has been consistently healthy, keeps himself in great shape, and plays a position that doesn't take a rough toll on the body... but we're still a long way from that happening any time soon.

jaxxr · November 16, 2006 10:35AM

Ed Walsh was the last 40 game winner back in 1908, we will probably never see that again, but even more unbreakable.......

He has a lifetime ERA of 1.82 !!!
It's big news nowadays if a starting pitcher can get an ERA below 2.00 for a single season, Big Ed, in 14 years of major leauge hurling with nearly 3000 IP is the all time leader, and will most likely be the leader forever.

bri2327 · November 16, 2006 11:01AM

jaxxr,

As with most pitching records, that ERA will never be touched.

Providing a meltdown the next year or two before he retires, Pedro Martinez will be the only starter who began his career in the last 30 years to finish with a sub 3.00 ERA. As of now he stand at 2.81.

Even Clemens is at 3.10 career. He would have to pitch just over 100 inning next year without allowing an earned run to lower his below the mark, so dont look for him to get there.

I believe the only 2 pitchers who started their careers in the last 40 years with a sub 3.00 ERA are Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver.

Going back even further, very few starters who began careers in the last 60+ years have sub 3.00 ERA's for their career. Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, and Juan Marichal are the only 5 I could come up with off the top of my head.

grote15 · November 16, 2006 12:04PM

These days an ERA of 4.00 is almost like an ERA of 2.50 was 30 years ago.

mr3holesinone · November 17, 2006 9:06PM

Lowest Earned Run Average in a Season

I thought Bob Gibson had the record but learned otherwise when I looked up the info. Today's game makes it tough for a good pitcher to be around 3.00 much less 2.00. Great pitchers with great season's haven't come close to Gibson's mark. This is the one I see as being really tough to break.

"It might surprise most fans that Bob Gibson doesn’t hold the single-season ERA record. As remarkable as Gibby’s 1.12 ERA was, Red Sox pitcher Dutch Leonard had a lower one (0.96) in 1914. (Going back further, Tim Keefe had an 0.86 ERA in 1880, but the rules were different.) Needless to say, no modern pitchers have come close to Leonard. The best ERA of this generation: Dwight Gooden’s 1.53 in 1985, though Greg Maddux came close in 1994-95 (1.56 and 1.63). However, if you factor in park effects and how the league did as a whole, Pedro Martinez’s 2000 season is the best of all-time. He had a 1.74 ERA in a league with a 4.91 ERA, and pitched home games at Fenway. The “relative ERA” stat pegs Pedro as being 2.85 times better than an average pitcher that year."

Other records that would be tough:
Just hitting .400 again.
Ryan's 7 No Hitters & Career Strikeouts record
Any record that has to do with Complete Games for pitchers
Ripken's Consecutive Games Played Streak
Connie Mack's Managerial Records won't be touched; he has almost 1,000 more wins than 2nd place.

bxb · November 17, 2006 11:45PM

I thought of a record that I think is even tougher than Cy Youngs's 511 career victories: Cy Young's 824 career decisions.

Remember, he also lost 313 games. I doubt any modern pitcher would stay around long enough to win over 500, and also lose over 300.

ziggy29 · November 18, 2006 9:07AM

Most unbreakable records overall: Cy Young's record for wins, innings pitched and complete games. Really, any pitching record that requires that most games started are completed and a three or four man rotation are off limits.

Most unbreakable hitting record? Probably triples, both single season (36) and career (309).

ToppsCo1lector · November 18, 2006 11:08AM

In my book these are the "untouchable" records in baseball...
Sweet Joe D's 56 game hitting streak
Cy Youngs career wins
Greg Maddux's 17 straight seasons with atleast 15 or more wins(is this a record? if not, dayum to whoever tops this)
Nolan Ryans career strikeout mark
Ty Cobbs career BA

grote15 · November 18, 2006 11:19AM

Greg Maddux's 17 straight seasons with atleast 15 or more wins(is this a record? if not, dayum to whoever tops this)

That is a record.

ToppsCo1lector · November 18, 2006 11:38AM

<< Greg Maddux's 17 straight seasons with atleast 15 or more wins(is this a record? if not, dayum to whoever tops this)

That is a record. >>

Thought so, but I wasn't positive.

What do you consider the most unbreakable career and season baseball records?

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