The Whiz effect

thezookrew · May 22, 2006 7:32AM

I recently bid on and won 3 Morgan's from SleazeBay. They looked awesome when I first pulled them out and if you look at them at half an arm's length away they easily look PL and MS63/64 (no big hits or marks in the focal areas). Looking at them with a 10X magnifier, I easily see lines, all going in the same direction, around the face. I suspect they have been whizzed, but wouldn't there be more evidence than looking at the coin magnified? Even looking at it in good light a few inches away you can see some hairlines, but really can't tell it has been whizzed. Also, is there any first tier slabbers that would grade and slab a whizzed coin? Is it even worth it?

NumisOxide · May 22, 2006 7:40AM

ANACS will slab whizzed coins and put them in their NET grade holder and NCS will too.

morgannut2 · May 22, 2006 7:41AM

Do you know how to tell die polish (raised lines) typical of prooflike surfaces--- from cleaning lines (cuts into surface)-- from whizzing: swirl marks in places with moved metal against devices and unnatural gloss to fields and devices?

thezookrew · May 22, 2006 8:00AM

I have no clue. But all three of them look to have the marks (that would be REALLY coincidental). I am just surprised because I would have thought the field would have been severely impaired by whizzing. Here is a Link to one of the Morgans in question. Please let me know what you think.

Fairlaneman · May 22, 2006 8:03AM

Whizzed coins have a dull unnatural look to them with no real cartwheel to the luster. What a person thinks might be luster is even and dull. No boom like real luster.

Ken

19Lyds · May 22, 2006 8:15AM

Whizzed (Yes its a 32-D Sigh)

Die Polish Parallel Raised lines that do not necessarily cross the raised devices on the coin.

morgannut2 · May 22, 2006 8:17AM

Looking at the very poorly pictured coin you linked--my GUESS is it's an circulated EF/AU coin that has been either dipped too often or lightly "wiped" (wiped=cleaned-often with silver polish-- with lines all the same direction) after the circulation took place. Because you want to learn the different "looks" of clean and whizzed Morgans in online photos--I would suggest you go to Hertiagecoin.com and look at ANACS net graded problem coins in their archive. To narrow the search in Morgans, look for key dates like 1889CC, 1893S where there will be plenty of examples because they are still valuable and get auctioned frequently.

pontiacinf · May 22, 2006 9:15AM

<< <i>

Whizzed (Yes its a 32-D Sigh)

Die Polish Parallel Raised lines that do not necessarily cross the raised devices on the coin. >>

thanks for posting those, I always wanted to know what the look generated from a whizzing would be, but was too lazy to fireup the
dremel and find out

claychaser · May 22, 2006 9:38AM

19Lyds: Great pictures and post!

ABC123 · May 22, 2006 10:00AM

ACG Accugrade may also, on a slow day, grade them !

sinin1 · May 22, 2006 10:09AM

coin you linked looks whizzed in photo

can see some parallel lines on cheek and field going from 6 o'clock to 10 o'clock

Conder101 · May 22, 2006 10:59PM

Looks lightly circ and dipped to dead flat.

messydesk · May 22, 2006 11:26PM

I'd just say it's an AU coin, probably dipped. The photo doesn't reveal signs of whizzing.

KurtHorn · May 23, 2006 12:43AM

The most important thing to remember about the difference between whizzing and die polish is that die polish lines are raised and whizzing marks are scratches into the metal.

Really skillful whizzing can be hard to detect and will very, very occasionally get theough grading. 99% of the time however the whizz job is not done well and anyone can see it. I once was fooled by a 1901-S Morgan that had been whizzed. It got by ANACS, but later I sent it in for crossing and NGC refused saying it was whizzed. When I really looked at the coin I could see it. DOH!

Shamika · May 23, 2006 1:35AM

I'm not so sure that coin has been whizzed, but it definitely has been cleaned in some manner.

thezookrew · May 23, 2006 1:44AM

I looked at them again last night with my 10X glass and I would say it looks more wiped than whizzed. In hand they seem to still have a good amount of luster and still have a mirror field to them. Is that normal for a wiped coin? I thought the mirrored field would be obliterated. And I do appreciate all the responses I have received - it is truly why I am hooked on the boards (Oh great - now I have the stuck on Band-aides song in my head - to close to "hooked on coin boards", I guess).

morgannut2 · May 23, 2006 2:01AM

Yes, that is normal for a wiped coin to answer your question. The remaing luster you are seeing is commonly obliterated by harsh cleaning or whizzing (yes, there are some subtle whizzed coins--but they're rare). The thing is, it's it's sometimes hard to say exactly what was done if multiple efforts at cleaning were done. This one does seem to have RANDOM abrasions from normal circulation, directional hairlines on the devices from a wipe, and the luster is impared which can come from repeated toning and redipping. The point being: there's no rule multiple idiots/owners each didn't manage to screw it up at different times!!!----
--------
BTW that coin image (Above) showing die polish verses cleaning is excellant!!

thezookrew · May 23, 2006 3:01AM

Thanks Morgannut2!!! Your knowledge and quick responses are greatly appreciated!!!! I still like the Morgans I received. I paid about $25 a piece for them but I think in hand they still look pretty good!!

RedTiger · May 23, 2006 4:00AM

Rick Montgomery has an article on the subject:
http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?universeid=313&artid=2194&universeid=81&type=1&universeid=313

link

The pictures are not the best, but the text gives a good description. A professionally whizzed raw coin can often look exceptionally nice, MS65 on up in some photos. So be careful out there.

kryptonitecomics · May 23, 2006 4:46AM

<< <i>I'd just say it's an AU coin, probably dipped. The photo doesn't reveal signs of whizzing. >>

Agreed...cleaned but not whizzed in my opinion.

The Whiz effect

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