1987 Topps Traded Tiffany Greg Maddux - most underpriced?

Writer11 · April 7, 2006 5:04AM

Does anyone else think that the 1987 Topps Tiffany Traded Greg Maddux rookie is underpriced? You can buy a PSA 10 for $55. Now, Maddux doesn't strike out a lot of guys like Clemens but his career numbers are comparable - not as good, but in the same ballpark.

Now, from what I've learned there were 5,000 1987 Topps Traded Tiffany sets produced. Estimates on 1984 Fleer Update sets have anywhere from 4,000 to 10,000 being produced, yet a PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update Clemens sells for $1,125+ - by my calculation the Clemens is valued at 20 times the price of a PSA 10 Topps Traded Tiffany Maddux.

What do you think?

mikeschmidt · April 7, 2006 5:11AM

I think the market is generally efficient.

People colllect regular-issue 1987 Madux rookies. Topps traded came out late. Not to mention - I think your estimate of 5,000 traded tiffany sets may be incorrect. I think that there were almost 30,000 regular Topps Tiffany produced. The 5,000 figure seems to low. Either way, nearly 2,000 Maddux Traded Tiffany rookies have been graded by PSA. They are not exactly hard to find.

Also, Clemens is a bad comparable. Clemens has always been a dominant pitchers - whereas Maddux is an intelligent, calculating pitcher. That notwithstanding, there is only one 1984 Clemens card available. There are many 1987 Maddux cards available.

m

shagrotn77 · April 7, 2006 5:17AM

Clemens 341-172, 3.12 ERA, 4.502 K, 7 Cy Youngs

Maddux 318-189, 3.01 ERA, 3,052 K, 4 Cy Youngs

Looks like a pretty good comparison to me, strikeouts notwithstanding. If you're going to compare any modern pitcher to Roger Clemens in terms of overall numbers, Maddux is the way to go.

megatron · April 7, 2006 5:49AM

<< <i>Does anyone else think that the 1987 Topps Tiffany Traded Greg Maddux rookie is underpriced? You can buy a PSA 10 for $55. Now, Maddux doesn't strike out a lot of guys like Clemens but his career numbers are comparable - not as good, but in the same ballpark.

Now, from what I've learned there were 5,000 1987 Topps Traded Tiffany sets produced. Estimates on 1984 Fleer Update sets have anywhere from 4,000 to 10,000 being produced, yet a PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update Clemens sells for $1,125+ - by my calculation the Clemens is valued at 20 times the price of a PSA 10 Topps Traded Tiffany Maddux.

What do you think? >>

I actually picked one up for less than that!!

mikeschmidt · April 7, 2006 6:03AM

<< <i>
Looks like a pretty good comparison to me, strikeouts notwithstanding. . >>

Shag:

As pitchers, I do agree that they are both the best of this generation - but I do think they are different type of pitchers [power vs. precision]

But my point about comparability, as it related to card prices, was more about the sheer number of rookie cards.

Clemens has one in 1984. Maddux has seven in 1987. Too many rookie cards in comparison - which depresses value.

Not to mention, of the 1987 Topps Tiffany Traded, over 65% of Maddux' graded are PSA 9 or 10. With Clemens' Fleer Update, less than 45% are PSA 9 or 10. More of a condition rarity to boot.

sagard · April 7, 2006 6:10AM

Funny I think I got my PSA 9 for that same $55.

donnnster · April 7, 2006 6:25AM

Well hopefully as maddux climbs up the all time wins ladder his card prices will go up. I think awhile back the psa 10 tiffany card was up over 100(thats when I bought mine). Wow I didn't know that it could be had for only $55. What a deal!

MajorDanby · April 7, 2006 6:31AM

mike got it right in terms of supply. hard to compare the tiffany rookie to the clemens rookie. the clemens card is more scarce in terms of condition, comes from a more appealing set..and, frankly, clemens is more collectible than maddux. clemens has played in big markets (NY and boston, in particular) and has an aura of greatness. maddux shies away from the spotlight and is largely known as a part of the original Big 3 (rather than as an individual, as clemens is known for).

i dont foresee maddux's rookie cards going markedly up unless he pitches beyond 40 and breaks some record. this is good for me, as i collect maddux cards and am happy with how the prices are. i finally got his pittsfield minor league card (his most expensive rookie or early career card).

donnnster · April 7, 2006 6:42AM

Major- ah so you are the one I was bidding against that one auction...Glad to see that a fellow psa board member won it! Don't forget about the 1987 leaf maddux. Thats a pretty hard issue to get in a psa 10. Prob much harder than the 1987 topps tiffany for sure.

btw, for you stats folks, maddux just got career win 319. Below is a list of the all time wins...Maddux should probably move into #10 all time if he has his average 13-15 win season.

Roger Clemens 341 wins #9

Steve Carlton 329 wins #10

John Clarkson 328 wins #11

Eddie Plank 326 wins #12

Nolan Ryan 324 wins #13

Don Sutton 324 wins #14

MajorDanby · April 7, 2006 7:06AM

donnster...i recognized your handle and i joked in the mail call thread that you were shilling me!

i have yet to buy his tiffany or his leaf card...mainly because i have a hard time considering parallel cards as real rookies. eventually, when i soften on this issue, i will buy it. do you know, by chance, how scarce his dave berg 1987 card is?

donnnster · April 7, 2006 7:19AM

I'm not too sure how many of those 1987 Berg cards were produced. I believe they were one of those stadium giveaway promotions. I ended up buying a set raw off of ebay awhile back(not too expensive, I think it cost me below 20 bucks). Got lucky and the maddux from that set graded a 10. These cards aren't the standard card size. PSA considers them tall boys. I tried to search google for more info on them but couldn't find anything.

Brian48 · April 7, 2006 8:41AM

<< <i>Does anyone else think that the 1987 Topps Tiffany Traded Greg Maddux rookie is underpriced? You can buy a PSA 10 for $55. Now, Maddux doesn't strike out a lot of guys like Clemens but his career numbers are comparable - not as good, but in the same ballpark.

Now, from what I've learned there were 5,000 1987 Topps Traded Tiffany sets produced. Estimates on 1984 Fleer Update sets have anywhere from 4,000 to 10,000 being produced, yet a PSA 10 1984 Fleer Update Clemens sells for $1,125+ - by my calculation the Clemens is valued at 20 times the price of a PSA 10 Topps Traded Tiffany Maddux.

What do you think? >>

Where did you hear that there were only 5000 sets produced? From my understanding, the last time the production run was that low was in '85 or '86. Wasn't '87 the year in which Topps started letting the presses run on thier Tiffany sets?

In any case, I think pricing on all rookies cards from the late eighties to the mid nineties are priced about right (which some notable exceptions, of course). My favorite, early Maddux cards are his '91 Topps Tiffany and Desert Shield. I think either of these are much more scarcer and desirable than any of this rookie cards.

MajorDanby · April 7, 2006 9:29AM

are you sure his 91 topps tiffany is more desirable? i wouldnt think so, as i see many of these on ebay. his most desirable cards are the 91 desert shield, the 93 finest refractor and then his rookies. his procard minor league card is probably his most desirable early career card.

Brian48 · April 7, 2006 2:14PM

I think the '91 Tiffany is tougher to find than any of the earlier Tiffany releases, other than the first 3 years in their existence. I don't consider the '93 Refractor to be one of his "earlier" cards, but rather in another class of it's own. I've got the '91 Desert Shield and it's favorite of Maddux's cards before he became a superstar, but then again I'm a real big fan of the '91 Desert Shields so I'm a little bias in this regard.

Stone193 · April 7, 2006 2:31PM

The production run for the 87T Tiffany Traded Maddux is listed at 30,000.

Source: 05 Standard Catalog of BB - Krause.

mike

Lothar52 · April 7, 2006 10:56PM

Somebody has to know somebody that can get the correct number of print runs on the 84 fleer update set......ANYONE???

Writer11 · April 7, 2006 11:14PM

Thanks Stone for the correction on the print run for the 1987 Topps Tiffany Traded. I had asked around but I had never seen the exact quantity on paper. I guess it's more than the Clemens then, but I still think the card is a good deal.

Maddux won the Cubs home opener yesterday as well.

Stone193 · April 8, 2006 3:23AM

Guys like Maddux and Clemens are sure fire HOF'ers.

Glavine? Since he's a lefty and still pitching, IMO, I think he has the credentials to get in and he's got a few 20 games seasons (3 or 4?) and a couple of CYAs. He was also the WS MVP the year the Braves won it.

My point? There's a ton of their RCs out there - probably will take a long time to see any real appreciation for the investors?

mike

fsjeter · April 8, 2006 3:46PM

<<If you're going to compare any modern pitcher to Roger Clemens in terms of overall numbers, Maddux is the way to go.>>

You can't forget the "Big Unit". He may not have the wins but he's outpaced Maddux in every other category.

264-136, 3.11 ERA, 4,375K, 5 Cy Youngs

Admittedly, he'll never catch Maddux or Clemens on wins (he still has an outside chance at 300) but he could still pass Clemens in K's. He finished 2005 with 211 K's. He only needs 128 more this season to pass him and with Clemens not playing, it is possible.

Scott

fsjeter · April 8, 2006 3:53PM

BTW, I don't feel the 1987 Topps Tiffany is overpriced but I do feel it is underappreciated. But then again, so is his 1987 Fleer Update Glossy. I agree that the 1987 Donruss & Leaf are probably his toughest because of the black borders. Especially the leaf issue with far fewer print numbers.

Scott

DeutscherGeist · April 8, 2006 6:03PM

If we can get more collectors in the hobby, the price of Maddux will rise. Right now, I do not think there is a collector on these boards that does not have at least one Maddux rookie, be it the 1987 Donruss, Leaf, Topps Tiffany, Topps or Fleer Update.

The black boarders of the 1987 Donruss make it a difficult card to find in MINT, but I have many that are MINT and I paid $20 or less for each of them. You can find the PSA 9 on ebay any day for less than $20.

donnnster · April 9, 2006 3:04AM

From what I heard, the 1987 leaf is so difficult because leaf didn't make any factory sets(not 100% sure on this though). Wow wonder why this auction went so high:

LINK

1987 Topps Traded Tiffany Greg Maddux - most underpriced?

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