Who is worse under pressure than A-rod?

jlbsquared · April 5, 2006 12:19AM

Yeah, the guy puts up big numbers every year. But last night was a perfect example of how he plays - 1-4 with guys in scoring position with no RBIs and missed several opportunities to extend or retake the lead. When he came up in the ninth with 2 on and 2 out I would have bet my life on a weak grounder to short, which is exactly what happened... Yeah he hits the home run on opening day, up 3 of course... I don't know of any other "superstar" who gets so many of his stats cheaply, except for maybe the now retired Sosa...

onefasttalon · April 5, 2006 12:22AM

Well.. it's not baseball... but Peyton Manning is one of the biggest choke artist of all time too. I'm a native Hoosier and big Colts fan, but DAMN I WISH HE'D WIN A GAME WHEN IT COUNTS!

smallstocks · April 5, 2006 1:09AM

Armando Benitez. Guy has blown more huge games than any pitcher I have ever seen.

gosteelers · April 5, 2006 1:26AM

This was said about Karl Malone during the years they were trying to beat the Bulls...

Dand52261 · April 5, 2006 1:26AM

Worst Scott Norwood, Bill Buckner, Donnie Moore,

Best , Adam Vinateiri, Papi Ortiz, Jack Morris, Kirby Puckett, David Cone, Jeter is not bad either

gosteelers · April 5, 2006 1:33AM

<< Worst Scott Norwood, Bill Buckner, Donnie Moore,

Best , Adam Vinateiri, Papi Ortiz, Jack Morris, Kirby Puckett, David Cone, Jeter is not bad either >>

To put Norwood in the worst is unfair, it was like a 47 yard FG!

baseballfanatic · April 5, 2006 1:37AM

Pucketts game 6 heroic's in the WS are legendary

TheThrill22 · April 5, 2006 1:40AM

Barry Bonds hasn't exactly torn 'em up in the post-season.

Dand52261 · April 5, 2006 1:40AM

Norwood's choke will go down as one of the worst ever, because of the stage it was done.

ArchStanton · April 5, 2006 1:42AM

Bonds was the first one that came to mind for me. I'm not on the Let's-Hate-Barry bandwagon, but as a long-time Pirates fan, Barry really likes to stink it up in the playoffs.

baseballjeff · April 5, 2006 2:11AM

Barry just stinks.

bri2327 · April 5, 2006 2:48AM

Arod has and always will be great at padding his numbers when the game isnt on the line. Nobody else can be counted on more for hitting a 3 run home run when his team is already winning big. In his defense though, there are 8 other supposed big players in that lineup who did nothing last night. It is the same story as last year, leaving runners on base all day and Mussina not being able to hold a lead that was handed to him twice. What gets me more last night was Torre bringing in Proctor instead of Rivera in the 9th. What is he waiting for ? Did it become a rule that your best pitcher, even if he is a closer, cant pitch in a tie game ? Is Torre saving him for october ? It is a joke. Maybe one of the 5 other major league managers on the Yankees coaching staff could have helped him out with that one.

Darin · April 5, 2006 3:41AM

George Brett was probably the best clutch player of all time. 1985 kind of exemplifies how great he was. They were in a battle for the division title against the Angels and Brett pretty much put the Royals on his back in the final two weeks and they won the division. Then in the playoffs I believe they fell behind 3 games to 1 against Toronto and again he refused to let the team lose, and he carried them. Then he followed with a great world series.

And of course this in 1980, when the Royals finally beat the Yankees for the A.L. Pennant.

"Brett steps in, Gossage ready, the pitch, swing and a high fly ball, deep right field, there she goes, HOME RUN, HOME RUN by Brett and the Royals lead 4-2. George Brett hit it in the upper deck off Gossage and the Royals lead." -longtime Royal announcer Fred White's call, Oct. 10, 1980

"I don't know how hard I threw it. I just know the ball went out a lot faster than it went in." - Goose Gossage

Brian48 · April 5, 2006 4:12AM

Different sport, but when I think of choke, I think of Mike Vanderjagt. Even more so than his high profile "ex-teammate".

jlbsquared · April 5, 2006 4:13AM

<< What gets me more last night was Torre bringing in Proctor instead of Rivera in the 9th. What is he waiting for ? Did it become a rule that your best pitcher, even if he is a closer, cant pitch in a tie game ? Is Torre saving him for october ? It is a joke. Maybe one of the 5 other major league managers on the Yankees coaching staff could have helped him out with that one. >>

This was my other pet peeve about last night. Farnsworth could have even gone another guy or 2 in the ninth, IMO. Proctor came in and gave up an immediate walk on 4 horrible pitches that should have been enough for Torre to yank him (and I agree he should have been no where near the game in the 1st place - I'd only pitch him up or down 5 runs) but ARod just bugs the hell out of me. Has he ever come through for the Yankees in a big spot(not that game 2 is that huge, either, but I'm pretty sure this won't be the last time)? That huge salary and those gaudy numbers just make me ill every time I see a weak grounder in a clutch situation like last night...

On the whole, I thought Jeter and dirty Damon had good games, Damon nearly took the lead in the ninth with that top of the wall double, and Moose pitched well til around 100 pitches, like always..

carew4me · April 5, 2006 4:27AM

Bode Miller!

NewJerseyMeatHook · April 5, 2006 4:43AM

1998 Vikings.

ravenman · April 5, 2006 4:59AM

back in the day, pitchers did not want to see eddie murray late in the game, especially with the bases juiced.
this question also reminds me of a great pinch hitter who was clutch late in the game by the name of "the crow" terry crowley. as you can see i am a little biased with the O's. but if i was a pitcher right now, i would not want to face david ortiz!!!!

smallstocks- you are right on benitez!!!! i'm surprised he hasnt retired from wiplash yet!!

kcballboy · April 5, 2006 5:00AM

I may be too young or just an idiot, but who is Scott Norwood?

ravenman · April 5, 2006 5:02AM

<< I may be too young or just an idiot, but who is Scott Norwood? >>

buffalo bills kicker who choked in the super bowl with seconds left ...i want to say 1991

kcballboy · April 5, 2006 5:06AM

<< 

<< I may be too young or just an idiot, but who is Scott Norwood? >>

buffalo bills kicker who choked in the super bowl with seconds left ...i want to say 1991 >>

Oh, thank goodness. I was only 10 then. For a second there I though I might really be an idiot.

tkd7 · April 5, 2006 5:12AM

<< 

<< What gets me more last night was Torre bringing in Proctor instead of Rivera in the 9th. What is he waiting for ? Did it become a rule that your best pitcher, even if he is a closer, cant pitch in a tie game ? Is Torre saving him for october ? It is a joke. Maybe one of the 5 other major league managers on the Yankees coaching staff could have helped him out with that one. >>

This was my other pet peeve about last night. Farnsworth could have even gone another guy or 2 in the ninth, IMO. Proctor came in and gave up an immediate walk on 4 horrible pitches that should have been enough for Torre to yank him (and I agree he should have been no where near the game in the 1st place - I'd only pitch him up or down 5 runs) but ARod just bugs the hell out of me. Has he ever come through for the Yankees in a big spot(not that game 2 is that huge, either, but I'm pretty sure this won't be the last time)? That huge salary and those gaudy numbers just make me ill every time I see a weak grounder in a clutch situation like last night...

On the whole, I thought Jeter and dirty Damon had good games, Damon nearly took the lead in the ninth with that top of the wall double, and Moose pitched well til around 100 pitches, like always.. >>

I don't have a problem with Torred using Proctor. He's got to find out what these guys can do, and a way to do that is to put them in big situations. Better to find out now than September.

jlbsquared · April 5, 2006 6:17AM

Career: Pitching | Fielding
SEASON TEAM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV ERA
2004 NYY 26 0 0 0 25.0 29 18 15 5 14 21 2 1 0 2 -- 5.40
2005 NYY 29 1 0 0 45.2 46 32 30 10 17 36 1 0 0 0 -- 6.05

Proctor hasn't shown much over the last couple years - apart from a couple decent innings last year in the ALDS, last night is pretty representative of his career. He's 29, I'd be surprised if he suddenly "got it"

BigRedMachine · April 5, 2006 7:28AM

Michigan's Chris Webber, any Florida State kicker against any Miami team, Greg Norman at the Masters, etc.

I'd be really surprised to know if, statistically, A-rod is that much worse than anyone else in a given situation......say when your team is tied or behind and there are runners on base. It's more than likely just a mindset a fan gets into when rooting for a specific team.

I could be wrong, I usually am.

shawn

DaBigHurt · April 5, 2006 7:52AM

THIS GUY!

tkd7 · April 5, 2006 10:45AM

<< Career: Pitching | Fielding
SEASON TEAM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV ERA
2004 NYY 26 0 0 0 25.0 29 18 15 5 14 21 2 1 0 2 -- 5.40
2005 NYY 29 1 0 0 45.2 46 32 30 10 17 36 1 0 0 0 -- 6.05

Proctor hasn't shown much over the last couple years - apart from a couple decent innings last year in the ALDS, last night is pretty representative of his career. He's 29, I'd be surprised if he suddenly "got it" >>

Then you are looking at the prospect of pitching Rivera for two innings (9th and 10th). Maybe Torre doesn't want to do that to Mo right now. If Mariano pitches the 9th, you would probably have Proctor in the 10th so you are looking at the same situation anyway. I'm not sure that Mariano will have as much in his tank this year as previous years.

julen23 · April 5, 2006 11:38AM

greg norman...

Julen

yawie99 · April 5, 2006 11:40AM

Tony LaRussa-managed teams.

jlbsquared · April 5, 2006 2:31PM

top 8th, 4-4 game, sheffield on 2nd, ARod strikes out...shocking.. Not sure if I'm watching tonights game or a replay of last nights...

bri2327 · April 5, 2006 3:16PM

jlb, you beat me to it. I think we can look forward to this all year.

DaBigHurt · April 5, 2006 3:19PM

Yeah, let's trade Arod for Bill Mueller!

Maybe we can talk Scott Brosius into lacing them up again!

bjork73 · April 5, 2006 9:26PM

This post smacks of selective memory... there has to be numbers out there showing his average with runners in scoring position, or when the team was behind, or during the playoffs. I think somebody brought up a point about a lot of "clutch" performances falling perfectly within the bounds of statistical variation awhile ago; as somebody who's studied his fair share of econometrics, it makes sense to me...

jlbsquared · April 5, 2006 10:52PM

<< there has to be numbers out there showing his average with runners in scoring position, >>

ok, here's 2004

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Bases Empty 155 311 18 86 15 1 18 18 42 69 0 0 .277 .373 .505 .878
Runners On 150 290 94 86 9 1 18 88 38 62 28 4 .297 .378 .521 .898
RISP 131 157 79 39 4 1 8 66 24 33 10 2 .248 .346 .439 .785
RISP w/2 Outs 73 68 25 14 3 1 4 23 9 17 3 0 .206 .308 .456 .764
Bases Loaded 32 12 20 2 1 0 0 10 1 2 0 0 .167 .188 .250 .438

Nice .206 Avg. with RISP w/ 2 outs... hey at least he was at .248 with RISP and less than 2 outs..

bjork73 · April 5, 2006 11:59PM

Career regular-season AVG: .307
Career post-season AVG: .305

Career regular-season OBP: .385
Career post-season OBP: .393

Career regular-season SLG: .577
Career post-season SLG: .534

Statistics from http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/alex-rodriguez.shtml

Well, seems like the perceived post-season ineffectiveness doesn't hold up under statistical scrutiny.

jlbsquared · April 6, 2006 12:24AM

sure, let's see post season averages when his team is less than 3 runs up or down, or lets see some postseason stats with RISP. His psotseason stats are just like his regular season ones - inflated and worthless...

overall numbers don't mean much when you never come through in the clutch and you never win anything.

Alfiewt · April 6, 2006 8:03AM

Arod 2005:

By Situation------AB-----R-----H-------2B-------3B-------HR------RBI-----BB------HBP-----SO------SB-----CS-----AVG----OBP-----SLG------OPS
None On---------300----27---101----17--------1--------27-------27------45-------8-------65-------0--------0----.337----.436----.670-----1.106
Runners On-----305----97----93------12------0---------21------103-----46-------8--------74------21-------6----.305----.406----.551-----.957
RISP--------------186----80----54-------9-------0----------9-------77------34-------6--------52-------5-------1----.290----.410-----.484-----.894
RISP, 2 out------86-----22-----26------3--------0----------5-------38------17------2--------26-------1--------0----.302----.429----.512------.941

I wouldn't say he's that bad w/ RISP, but he does seem to be better with none on.

Who is worse under pressure than A-rod?

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