OT: TPG For Dummies
Cruzi
Posts: 460
Call it know thy enemy or grudging acceptance but the time has come.
Assume I've just landed from Mars, well Australia actually, same colour , just a bit closer and know zip about third party graders, grading etc.
How, why, when, were, how much, how long, reliable, costs, value, how do you submit from overseas, how do you normally submit.....
Basically everything.
I know I've probably asked quite a mouthful but I am truely unknowing in the ways of third party grading.
Thanking you in advance.
Assume I've just landed from Mars, well Australia actually, same colour , just a bit closer and know zip about third party graders, grading etc.
How, why, when, were, how much, how long, reliable, costs, value, how do you submit from overseas, how do you normally submit.....
Basically everything.
I know I've probably asked quite a mouthful but I am truely unknowing in the ways of third party grading.
Thanking you in advance.
0
Comments
Why: only if the coin is valuable or high grade and you need certification in order to sell it.
When: Anytime, but I wouldn't send anything through the mail around Christmas.
Where: For darkside I would use ANACS, NGC, or PCGS in that order of preference (unless "why" included wanting to add to a PCGS Registry Set).
How Much: For PCGS you have to pay $50 just to submit (if you do it yourself); then there's grading fees $18 minimum per coin plus shipping. If your a member of the ANA then you can submit to NGC directly without having to pay a fee to "join;" minimum of $14 per coin plus shipping. For ANACS anyone can submit (no fee to join); minimum $10 per coin plus shipping.
How long: depends on sevice level, but can be months at the minimum costs shown above.
Reliable: Thery're reliabe from the standpoint of performing the slabbing function but they all have consistency problems.
Costs: See "How Much" above.
Value: The PCGS slabbed coins tend to have the most value due to their conservative standards (note I didn't say accurate).
How do you submit from overseas: See "How" above.
How do you normally submit: I used to submit directly to PCGS; now due to the fee to join I don't submit to them. You may want to consider submitting through a local dealer in your area or via someone like MadMarty.
<< <i>Why: only if the coin is valuable or high grade and you need certification in order to sell it. >>
Going to disagree here. The coin doesn't necessarily need to be valuable or high grade, nor do you have to want to sell it in order to want TPG. Many times people will slab coins in order to authenticate the coin, as much as for grade. Yes, slabbing certainly helps on higher grade coins, and is almost a must (IMO) for big ticket items, but for $10-15 per coin, it's well worth authenticating a coin alone, especially for collecting areas known to be rife with counterfeiting.
Also, some people actually like a coin to be encapsulated for protection.
<< <i>How long: depends on sevice level, but can be months at the minimum costs shown above. >>
Yes, but ANACS 5-day express sevice is a relative bargain extraordinaire at $15 per coin (5 coins minimum).
<< <i>Value: The PCGS slabbed coins tend to have the most value due to their conservative standards (note I didn't say accurate). >>
Is this really true for DarkSide coins? I know it is for LightSide, but I don't see the same level of dropoff for NGC and ANACS on DarkSide material.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
A NGC slabbed MS66 1927 Italian 5 lira sold recently on ebay for $177.50.
I just bought a 1927 Italian 5 lira in BU on ebay for $19.00 (it may not be a 66, but looked at least 64).
I think spending $14 plus shipping was worth $158.50 to the seller of the first coin
I think on the foreign side that PCGS does best, followed by NGC and then ANACS, but that's just my humble opinion.
BTW Krause is $25 in unc. and nothing in BU-3Mark
Other then in the US, is third party grading popular anywhere else in the world?
If so, is it widely used there to or is merely a few who use it?
And third, when did this start to occur as an business idea?
<< <i> Other then in the US, is third party grading popular anywhere else in the world?
If so, is it widely used there to or is merely a few who use it?
And third, when did this start to occur as an business idea? >>
It is very popular in Canada. The main Canadian TPG is ICCS. I believe the ANA started TPGing in 1987?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>I believe the ANA started TPGing in 1987? >>
Actually, I believe ANACS was offering the PhotoCerts + grading as early as 1972.....Conder101 where are you???
PCGS and NGC started in 1986/7.
<< <i>Is this really true for DarkSide coins? I know it is for LightSide, but I don't see the same level of dropoff for NGC and ANACS on DarkSide material. >>
Generally, you'll see massive pricing dropoffs between PCGS in Canadian and British vs. NGC, especially for scarcer dates in MS/PF65 and above ...... as always, buy the coin, and know how "much coin" you are buying.
<< <i>Other then in the US, is third party grading popular anywhere else in the world? >>
It's catching on in the more heavily traded countries. It comes to this, IMHO. At what point does the level of "disgust" increase to a point among collectors who have been pouring good money into bad coins that they "demand" some semblance of unbiased opinions ....... but again, having been presented a 'consistent' grading standard, the collectors still must and should learn to assess the quality range of a coin for themselves, or have a very trusted second source to verify a coin's grade.
I don't have super expensive coins but I do own a few that if slabbed would be easier to sell if needs be.
There are 2 companies trying to offer themselves as TPGs here, both basically single man coin dealers who grade their own sales.
Thank you for the replies, I know more now than I did yesterday.
<< <i>One of things that worries me is when posting to the US to be graded, it is possible for me to be hit with GST and other Taxes when it comes back into the country. >>
I would contact the TPG. I believe they have a way to notify the custom service that the coin had only a service performed on it, not that it is a purchase.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>I believe they have a way to notify the custom service that the coin had only a service performed on it, not that it is a purchase. >>
Ahh, that helps a lot
<< <i>Actually, I believe ANACS was offering the PhotoCerts + grading as early as 1972.....Conder101 where are you??? >>
Busy on the lightside.
ANACS began authenticating in 1972, they didn't start grading until Jan 1979, and they started using slabs in 1989. ANACS was the first certification service, The first company to actually use hard plastic slabs was a firm from South Africa, South Africa Gold Coin Exchange, in 1975. (They only graded and slabbed proof Krands.) The first company in the US to accept outside submissions and use hard plastic slabs was Accugrade in 1984.
Cruzi, Did you know there are two grading services located in Australia? And they both specialize in Australian coins. Austrailan Coin Grading Service (ACGS) uses the sealed flip type holder style that ICCS uses. Coin Graders of Australia uses a traditional style slab. I don't know if these are the two that you mentioned but both of these accept outside submissions.
Why and what would make it go higher ?
<< <i>Cruzi, Did you know there are two grading services located in Australia? >>
Yes, they were the ones I was referring to, I do deal occasionally with one of them, he can get some nice stock.
Cruzi, I hadn't seen this before. Indeed the main point here is the taxes upon return of the parcel. If you insure it for full value both ways, then the customs might ask you to pay VAT on the value of the parcel, that's the value of your own coins!That's if you have VAT or something similar in Australia. Normally they should tax only the grading fees and for this, I believe now all grading companies provide letters that these coins have only been graded, not purchased in the US. Avoid Fedex, and other courrier companies at any cost, they ask too many questions. If you want to insure a high value item upon its return from the US, use a private insurance company, not the one offered by USPS. Another way is to ask a Darksider to include your coins in his submissions and send them to you like a regular parcel when they're ready.
All these problems disappeared in Greece, ever since NGC appointed an official rep, before that I was spending long hours at the Greek Customs offices and I've even submitted through Steve Fenton in London, the only PCGS rep in Europe for the moment, for more expensive coins.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>One of things that worries me is when posting to the US to be graded, it is possible for me to be hit with GST and other Taxes when it comes back into the country. >>
A technique I use with my Beautiful Bride's better jewelry when we travel is to photograph it with an unmistakeably US background, like sitting on top of a Post Office collection box. I've been doing that since a friend of the BB had a ring confiscated and was threatened with prosecution. A happy ending came only because the dealer she bought it from had file photos, and she got her ring back when she took the photos and the dealer's affidavit back to the airport..
Years ago Customs maintained offices at major airports where you could register potentially dutiable items accompanying you on a trip, but they don't seem to have the resources to do that any more.
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'