Me Again....China Dollar size Brass.?????Editted...1st youth that wants it's Reply to this message

Smittys · October 12, 2005 3:48AM

1st youth to reply gets it.

What is it?
Date..???
Value.??
Thanks again

shirohniichan · October 12, 2005 4:07AM

Chinese Szechuan 5 "sen" (I don't know what the Chinese pronunciation of that character is)
First Year of Chinese Republic
Value???

tbirde56 · October 12, 2005 4:41AM

Close. Wear has obliterated the first (or last, per perspective) character of the denomination. So, it is a brass Szechuan 50 cash coin, Year 1 (1912), Y-449a, 449.1a or 449.2a. Value about $2 in VG (Krause '06).

tbirde56 · October 12, 2005 5:01AM

How youthful do I have to be?? ;-)
I have a 20 cash that it would go well with if noone else puts a claim on it.

shirohniichan · October 12, 2005 5:24AM

Why does it say it was made by the "Military Government" (Gun Seifu)?

satootoko · October 12, 2005 3:47PM

According to Kirk Douglas' reasoning, I'm a 3-year-old, so that should qualify me as a "youth". (Douglas had a second Bar Mitzvah at age 83 on the theory that the Biblical life span being three score and ten, he was 13 years into his second go-round.)

Anyhow Shiroh, my Beautiful Bride disagrees with you again.

The only "numbers" I saw were the "Gan" date and what I thought was a four, which she tells me is actually read in this instance as the first syllable of the Szechuan provincial name. Neither of us could find a 5 anywhere on the picture, and I'm convinced that it's a 10 cash, either Y#447a (if it's really brass as Smittys suspects) or Y#447 (if it's copper, as the legend states).

It has the required two rosettes at 3:00 and 9:00 on the obverse, and the 5 cash of the same design (Y#446 and Y#446a) is described by Krause as "Rare". There was a 5 cash copper with substantial mintage, but it has the widely used crossed flags obverse.

The coins are listed under "Szechuan Province Republic Milled Cash Coinage" and Krause does not mention or explain the Military Government legend. My own guess is that when they were being minted at the birth of the Republic, the Province was under the control of the new Republican military forces rather than a truly Republican elected government. (Not that I'm sure the Republic of China was ever ruled by an honestly elected government.)

BTW Smittys, your bottom picture is the obverse, correctly oriented, and the top is the reverse, which needs to be rotated about 100 degrees to the right, so the three (almost) parallel lines are vertical. The central legend would then correctly read top to bottom, right to left, as "Szechuan Military Government".

Oh yeah - Krause values a brass 1912 Y#447a from 80¢ VG to $5 XF, and the copper one from $1.75 VG to $20 XF.

Smittys · October 12, 2005 10:22PM

Am I reading this right that no YOUTHS Under 18 want this coin for free?????
No Shipping No Handling Just FREE

shirohniichan · October 13, 2005 2:09AM

Anyhow Shiroh, my Beautiful Bride disagrees with you again.

That's OK-- she can't be right all the time.

The translation of the first image reads (from top to bottom):

MADE BY MILITARY GOVERNMENT

SZECHUAN COPPER CURRENCY

(literally "treasure manufactured") CURRENCY 5[ ] SEN (or "cash")

The second side reads:

FIRST YEAR OF CHINESE REPUBLIC

The "gan" in "gannen" means "origin." In this case, it means first year. You will notice there is no Meiji 1 nen, Shohwa 1 nen, etc. It is always Meiji gannen, Shohwa gannen, etc.

Millertime · October 13, 2005 2:52AM

My 12 year old son would like it. He's more interested in darkside, tokens and medals than anything else.

Millertime

Smittys · October 13, 2005 4:12AM

12 yr old winner....
Yeah

satootoko · October 13, 2005 8:01AM

<< (literally "treasure manufactured") CURRENCY 5[ ] SEN (or "cash") >>

The printout I made in order to turn the picture right side up didn't capture the 5 character at the bottom, but I do see it now.

That raises the question:

is Krause way off base , orhas Smittys given a truly rare coin to Millertime's son, orhave the Hong Kong/Beijing counterfeiters struck once again? 5 cash Y#446/446a is depicted in Krause as approximately 24mm across.

shirohniichan · October 14, 2005 2:28AM

<< 

<< (literally "treasure manufactured") CURRENCY 5[ ] SEN (or "cash") >>

The printout I made in order to turn the picture right side up didn't capture the 5 character at the bottom, but I do see it now.

That raises the question:

is Krause way off base , orhas Smittys given a truly rare coin to Millertime's son, orhave the Hong Kong/Beijing counterfeiters struck once again? 5 cash Y#446/446a is depicted in Krause as approximately 24mm across. >>

The "juu" in "gojuu" is worn off, so Krause is still OK.

Smittys · October 14, 2005 2:43AM

<< has Smittys given a truly rare coin to Millertime's son >>

satootoko · October 14, 2005 2:59AM

<< The "juu" in "gojuu" is worn off, so Krause is still OK. >>

Ah, so deshoo.

50 cash, KM#449 (copper) $2 VG or KM#449a (brass) $1.50 VG.

sumnom · October 14, 2005 3:00AM

Shiroh, this is a 50 wen piece. The "sen" you are seeing there does not refer to the denomination. In this case, it just means "currency." The legend on the bottom of the coin, reads from right to left, "Equal to 50 wen of standard (fixed) currency." This term "fixed currency" comes out in my dictionary as "fixed rate" but I don't trust that as it makes little sense in context. I prefer my literal translation.

Anyhow, the "sen" (qian) does not refers to the currency unit but to money in general.

sumnom · October 14, 2005 3:10AM

Here is a quiz for y'all. What is the character in the circle and what is its political significance?

sumnom · October 14, 2005 3:16AM

As for this "fixed rate" thing, I suppose we could say that it means that the coin is always worth 50 wen and as such its value is fixed.

sumnom · October 14, 2005 3:22AM

Hi, it's me again. I went snooping in another dictionary and found a better definition of "zhiqian."

"Standard copper coins made by the the imperial mint in during the Ming and Qing dynasties."

Keep in mind that the ROC had only just been established so the new coinage had to be labelled in terms of the imperial coinage.

So the revised translation is: "Equivalent to 50 wen of standard coinage" where is "standard coinage" is understood to mean the currency minted by the imperial government.

shirohniichan · October 14, 2005 5:03AM

Hao la, hao la.

Is it the character for "Han" as in the Han Dynasty?

notlogical · October 14, 2005 5:35AM

I hate it when homework and piano lessons and soccer practice keep sme from winning cool coins.

Congratulations to the winner. It looks really

. My Aunt just moved to China to teach english.

sumnom · October 14, 2005 3:25PM

Shiroh, I think your guess is correct. It looks like "han" as in Han Dynasty. Now then, why is it there?

Me Again....China Dollar size Brass.?????Editted...1st youth that wants it's Reply to this message

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