My god. All of the other examples that have been popping up here, I believe they have been right at the low edge for the grade. This, does not meet even the most generous standard for the grade. What gives?
That sucks!! Way off center. Although, I think that referring to the guy who counts pixels as a moron is a bit harsh. I enjoy his posts. Although if he defends a PSA 9 on this stinker, I will lobby for his banning!
Bob Earhart originally submitted and sold it last year. It got switched and put in the wrong holder - somewhere, there is a nicely centered Clemente IA in a PSA 9 OC slab. It was a mistake on PSA's part.
The seller is top-notch - but, I remember seeing this exact card discussed here a while back. Legacy must have acquired the card to sell for someone, but I still can't explain the grade. It has to be a mistake of some sort.
I remember that old thread as well. We checked the cert number and noted there were quite a few of this same card submitted in a row. I believe there was an OC within 1 or 2 cert numbers of this card. I still believe (as was noted above) that there is a perfectly good 9 in a OC holder somewhere. Check the cert numbers before and after this card, it was interesting.
Wouldn't this card be a great test of the PSA will buy back misgraded cards guarantee? If you could buy it for less than SMR (or less than fair market), could you then return it to PSA and ask for full SMR (or full market) due to the mistaken grade?
This exact same card was on ebay about a year ago, same debate on these forums, i just cant believe Bussineau sold that card and did not return it to psa for a buyback. They will buy back a card like this for what you paid, if you have a receipt. Otherwise you need to negotiate a price with them on the buyback, usually based on SMR, but i guarantee they would buyback this card. This was definetly a mislabeled psa 9 oc.
Hopefully I'm not the "pixel counting moron" mintyfresh is referring to. Anyway the pixel ruler shows the centering to be 17/83 left to right. No where near being within PSA tolerance for a 9. Obviously this is a mistake as has been discussed in the thread.
All 20 cards from cert. number 30640358 to 30640377 are all the same Roberto Clemente In Actions cards. All are either a 9 OC or an 8 OC except for the one that is shown in the auction.
I would have to guess (as has been noted all along) that the real 9 got out of order during slabbing and is in a 9OC or 8OC case right now.
guess the grader was in a hurry to get to his smoke break. I think almost every graders smokes. Every time I would turn in cards in person at PSA there would be 10-15 guys standing around smoking outside. That's a nice 9OC, but hey, the guy needed a puff.
Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
I mentioned this card in DGF's thread a few weeks ago. I can't remember who had it for sale last, but it's obviously mis-graded.
The test here will be if PSA pays SMR for this and gets it off the market. Were I Legacy I would have made that call before i put it up on the auction block.
In my recent submission, I noticed two adjacent cards had the label flips switched. It doesn't happen often but it does occur occassionally. I also had a qualified grade on a single card, even though I requested no qualifiers. Three errors out of 680 cards is about .5% which isn't too bad.
Holy crap, ok, i'm the moron that bought this card Honestly, i didn't even really look at the card. I just saw the 9, and figured it was a 9. I've bought so many cards, all i've been doing now i looking at the grade and looking at my spreadsheet, and placing the bid. Shame on me i guess. But shame on them i guess also. Do you guys think i should not pay?
I think you have to pay. You bid on the auction and won. Mislabeled or not...the card inside that plastic is what you're buying. I would turn around to PSA and see if their guarantee works though.
Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
I would try talking with to PSA first to see if they can pay Legacy directly as their guarantee. This way you wouldn't have to front the cash as the middleman.
I too have lost some respect for Legacy. I believe they start all their auctions at half SMR, and they treated this like a 9 NQ, without ever mentioning the centering.
<< <i>Honestly, i didn't even really look at the card. I just saw the 9, and figured it was a 9. >>
As much as I have come to believe the benefits of graded cards, this is the one thing that appalls me. Not to pick on you specifically, Mitch, but such a thing turns our beloved cards into nothing more than labeled commodities to satisfy a competition.
If PSA says the card is a 9, then it's a 9. I don't think we should undermine PSA here. I'm no expert on '72 Topps, but PSA is, so i'll defer to their expert opinion. It obviously meets their criteria for a 9 and that should be good enough for all of us.
The seller of the card made money, PSA made money and the buyer is obviously happy with the purchase. In my opinion, that's all that counts.
Now if PSA will buy back the cards at very rare instances, but uses SMR for a cost basis... then why would they EVER show true market value for their cards? particularly pre-war. if you read their disclaimers buried somewhere, they say that auction results are not accurate indicators of value.
PLEASE CALL PSA AND KEEP US INFORMED AS TO HOW THIS PLAYS OUT. I also can't believe Legacy would do this either. I always felt they were probably the most reputable deler for high end items.
All, i just got a call from Greg Bussineau at Legecy. This card is not his, but was put up for auction via consignment (from some dealer in Atlanta), and he never personally saw the card. When he saw it he understood completely, and he is not going to take my money, so we're all good there. In my opinion, Greg did the right thing, showed a lot of character, and i have a lot of repect for him. I also called PSA, and they said they would regrade the card and refund my money if it was downgraded.
Alright, i've learned my lesson for the day, i'm going back to bed -mitch
An honest mistake most likely, but stuff like that just chips away at my confidence in the whole operation. I pose this partly as an honest question and partly as a rhetorical knock on quality control, but does anybody at PSA actually inspect cards, labels (including a cert number check) and slabs before they're shipped?
I mean, I've recently purchased a near-thousand dollar card whose cert number didn't match the database, a friend has badly overpaid for a few hockey cards that were mislabeled O-Pee-Chee when they were actually Topps, on one of my more recent invoices I had to send back about four cards for assorted label errors, and on the 20 freshly graded cards I picked up from the post office today, about a third have slight holder blemishes. Stuff like WIWAG gets the notoriety, but it's simple quality control and attention to detail that is my own personal beef with PSA.
That said, what the heck is Legacy doing listing this card as is?!?
I knew that Legacy just had that card on consignment - Greg has always been a class dealer in my transactions with Legacy. But, I am suprised no one looked at that scan before the card was listed. I figured he would do the right thing - the next right thing would be for that dealer to send it back to PSA to fix the error. Of course, the Atlanta dealer would lose a few bucks this way, so who knows - someone else who just buys cert numbers, and not cards, will wind up buying it as is.
Not making you pay, since you dont like the card, that sounds like Greg who is an A+ dealer! Glad this turned out ok and i am now finally convinced that the big hurt is being sarcastic in all his posts or he truly is the most gullible man alive!
"This is proof that Legacy is indeed top notch and PSA in no possible way double checks anything they do."
Goudey Gold is quickly becoming my favorite poster on these boards. Well said. And buccaneer-- lighten up. The guy looked at the auction title and figured (not unreasonably, I might add) that if the card was in a 9 holder it would satisfy his condition requirements. This card happened to be the 1 in 1000 exception. If you have ever paid multiples of NM-MT price for 9's or 10's, which I hope everyone agrees are nothing more than glorified high end 8's, then you don't need to be throwing your hat in the 'buy the card, not the holder' arena.
<< <i>This is proof that Legacy is indeed top notch and PSA in no possible way double checks anything they do.
GG >>
You try to do something eight million times without making a mistake. >>
I agree - it was a mechanical label error. It happens - and I am sure PSA would make good on the mistake. To say they don't double check "anything" is a bit much.
iamthegreatcornholio
Posts: 3,366
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Did the OC qualifier get whited out???
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
......even with perfect centering he paid TOO much!!!!!!!
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
I have some experience with 72s also, and I hav now seen it all.
If that card has not been switched with a real 9, we have a serious problem here.
Keith
<< <i>Did the OC qualifier get whited out??? >>
That's what I first thought, but the cert checks out, and the seller is very good.
It just sold, what is this world coming to?
Brian
Wow. That is crazy that someone just bought that.
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All 20 cards from cert. number 30640358 to 30640377 are all the same Roberto Clemente In Actions cards. All are either a 9 OC or an 8 OC except for the one that is shown in the auction.
I would have to guess (as has been noted all along) that the real 9 got out of order during slabbing and is in a 9OC or 8OC case right now.
The test here will be if PSA pays SMR for this and gets it off the market. Were I Legacy I would have made that call before i put it up on the auction block.
starting my morning really great,
-mitch
I too have lost some respect for Legacy. I believe they start all their auctions at half SMR, and they treated this like a 9 NQ, without ever mentioning the centering.
Brian
<< <i>Honestly, i didn't even really look at the card. I just saw the 9, and figured it was a 9. >>
As much as I have come to believe the benefits of graded cards, this is the one thing that appalls me. Not to pick on you specifically, Mitch, but such a thing turns our beloved cards into nothing more than labeled commodities to satisfy a competition.
The seller of the card made money, PSA made money and the buyer is obviously happy with the purchase. In my opinion, that's all that counts.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I luv this guy!
That's it - we're changing your name to "TheBigAbsurd."
Oh, leave the DaBigHurt alone. I actually look forward to his
replies. I need a good laugh at least once a day.
PLEASE CALL PSA AND KEEP US INFORMED AS TO HOW THIS PLAYS OUT. I also can't believe Legacy would do this either. I always felt they were probably the most reputable deler for high end items.
unreal!!!!
GG
I sent you a PM.
Mike
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
i just got a call from Greg Bussineau at Legecy. This card is not his, but was put up for auction via consignment (from some dealer in Atlanta), and he never personally saw the card. When he saw it he understood completely, and he is not going to take my money, so we're all good there. In my opinion, Greg did the right thing, showed a lot of character, and i have a lot of repect for him. I also called PSA, and they said they would regrade the card and refund my money if it was downgraded.
Alright, i've learned my lesson for the day, i'm going back to bed
-mitch
I mean, I've recently purchased a near-thousand dollar card whose cert number didn't match the database, a friend has badly overpaid for a few hockey cards that were mislabeled O-Pee-Chee when they were actually Topps, on one of my more recent invoices I had to send back about four cards for assorted label errors, and on the 20 freshly graded cards I picked up from the post office today, about a third have slight holder blemishes. Stuff like WIWAG gets the notoriety, but it's simple quality control and attention to detail that is my own personal beef with PSA.
That said, what the heck is Legacy doing listing this card as is?!?
GG
Goudey Gold is quickly becoming my favorite poster on these boards. Well said. And buccaneer-- lighten up. The guy looked at the auction title and figured (not unreasonably, I might add) that if the card was in a 9 holder it would satisfy his condition requirements. This card happened to be the 1 in 1000 exception. If you have ever paid multiples of NM-MT price for 9's or 10's, which I hope everyone agrees are nothing more than glorified high end 8's, then you don't need to be throwing your hat in the 'buy the card, not the holder' arena.
<< <i>This is proof that Legacy is indeed top notch and PSA in no possible way double checks anything they do.
GG >>
You try to do something eight million times without making a mistake.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is proof that Legacy is indeed top notch and PSA in no possible way double checks anything they do.
GG >>
You try to do something eight million times without making a mistake. >>
I agree - it was a mechanical label error. It happens - and I am sure PSA would make good on the mistake. To say they don't double check "anything" is a bit much.
Brian