1954 Ernie Banks Psa 8 ?????

sayheykid54 · February 11, 2005 5:53AM

Does this look like a Psa 8 card?. Banks

kuhlmann · February 11, 2005 6:21AM

id go out on a limb and say thats oc for sure.

pandrews · February 11, 2005 6:22AM

no better than a 6..

charliehustle14 · February 11, 2005 6:23AM

Not at all...Looks more like an Ex with those corners, and boy those edges look kinda frosty. I see the seller corrected himself as he originally called it "PSA 8 ex"...Freudian slip perhaps?

I don't wish to malign the seller. He's got 1279 unique positives and 100% feedback. Perhaps he got it that way, but something's fishy here.

BigRedMachine · February 11, 2005 6:43AM

If that's an 8, my ass is a banjo.

That brings up another question. Is it remotely possible for someone to crack a PSA case and switch cards? I've cracked some cases for resubmission and between the razor blade, screwdriver, and hammer, there's not much left of the case. If someone can do it, they've got the hands of a heart surgeon.

mudflap02 · February 11, 2005 6:51AM

Oh jeez....

RipublicaninMass · February 11, 2005 6:54AM

kingraider75 · February 11, 2005 6:58AM

grader was having a good day and felt like some charity work was needed. I would say maybe a 6 if you recracked it. Is the back perfectly centered?

CON40 · February 11, 2005 7:02AM

That card is pitiful!

Mr. Orlando, would you please take the stand and offer your opinion of Exhibit A. In your expert opinion, do you feel this card is accurately graded?
No?
Then, can you explain how this card achieved its dubious grade? Do you feel this card was placed into a "compromised" PSA holder and resealed?
<silence>
Your honor, may I have permission to treat Mr. Orlando as a hostile witness...

DaBigHurt · February 11, 2005 7:07AM

That definitely looks like an 8 to me. Nice corners, no major flaws and the centering fits the parameters of a PSA 8.

For those that are saying the card is only a 6 or a WIWAG special, how can you be so sure from looking at a scan? I thought this whole WIWAG mess was put to bed a few weeks ago. Why do we keep bringing it up?

aconte · February 11, 2005 7:10AM

<< That definitely looks like an 8 to me. Nice corners, no major flaws and the centering fits the parameters of a PSA 8. >>

aconte

mudflap02 · February 11, 2005 7:19AM

I think you lost this.

cardfan07 · February 11, 2005 7:29AM

JR,
Play that funky music white boy! Is that dueling banjoes I hear?
From the scan, I'd say that card should be reviewed further. WIWAG card?? I think paranoia has set in...

calleocho · February 11, 2005 7:52AM

thats a buy back if i ever saw one!

dallasactuary · February 11, 2005 7:54AM

The very first card I sold on ebay was a PSA 7 Banks rookie (yeah, that was stupid, but it worked out fine price-wise) and it put this piece of cr@p to shame. The centering on this card is at best 75/25, probably more like 80/20, one corner is banged all to hell and the back is discolored. If this sells for more than mine did, I'll, I'll, I'll, well, I'll be most distressed.

MajorDanby · February 11, 2005 8:31AM

<< If this sells for more than mine did, I'll, I'll, I'll, well, I'll be most distressed. >>

Onlypsahockey · February 11, 2005 8:33AM

<< That definitely looks like an 8 to me. Nice corners, no major flaws and the centering fits the parameters of a PSA 8. >>

WTF card are you looking at????? This piece of crap is a 5 at best!

I get back 6's & 7's with 4 sharp corners. This is a rag that needs to be liberated from its slab asap! We'll all be better off for it.

Bob

lostdart58 · February 11, 2005 8:47AM

Well, the auction has been cancelled.

kuhlmann · February 11, 2005 8:48AM

seller is a stand up guy, he emailed me saying he took card down bc to many question of the grade. he will resubmit it to psa and see if they will do it free of charge.

fell bad for him though as that will come back 6 at best.

DaBigHurt · February 11, 2005 9:12AM

That card is fine. I don't see what the problem is. If it was in a BVG, GAI or SGC holder, I would be careful, but it's in a PSA holder! If PSA says it's an 8, who are we to say otherwise? They're the trained professional experts. I think we're making too much of a tiny little scan.

Allen · February 11, 2005 9:21AM

That card has more question marks around it than that Matthew Lesko guy on TV.

"Free Money to go to school! Or buy a House! Or buy a suit with question marks all over it!"

mudflap02 · February 11, 2005 9:29AM

Twenty thousand dollars to start a COFFEE SHOP!

EagleEyeKid · February 11, 2005 9:47AM

That card is fine. I don't see what the problem is. If it was in a BVG, GAI or SGC holder, I would be careful, but it's in a PSA holder! If PSA says it's an 8, who are we to say otherwise? They're the trained professional experts.

Here's some toilet paper to wipe the brown stuff off your nose.
Card is a piece of **it. A solid 5.

Buccaneer · February 11, 2005 10:48AM

DaBigHurt: For a while I thought your act was pretty funny but now it's getting annoying. Do yourself a favor and take a look at the lower left corner after you click Larger Picture. If you don't think that corner (and hence, that card) is no better than a 5, then you have lost all credibility and put to shame the CU logo that you are displaying.

bobsbbcards · February 11, 2005 12:28PM

Here's the corner from the back. Still say it's an "8"?

jrdolan · February 11, 2005 1:27PM

<< JR,
Play that funky music white boy! Is that dueling banjoes I hear?
From the scan, I'd say that card should be reviewed further. WIWAG card?? I think paranoia has set in... >>

That wasn't me, that was a new guy who used the same avatar I uploaded. Nice name (it was mine during a brief stay at SGC many moons ago), nice choice in avatars. But it ain't me, babe. It ain't me.

As for that Banks, well, the T/B centering is about par for the course. The letters and the Cubs logo are almost always very close to drifting right off the top of the card. I sold sort of a yucky PSA 5 for damn good money not too long ago because the T/B centering was almost perfect, a rarity. L/R centering is usually tough; it always seem to look OC one way or the other, even when it's not.

This Ernie sure doesn't seem to be an 8. Look at those corners! Maybe it looks a lot better under a loupe, where you don't see the whole thing at once.

I still think DaBigHurt is Vargha doing some weird reverse psychology thing.

DaBigHurt · February 11, 2005 1:31PM

So it has one questionable corner. Where does it say a PSA 8 can't exhibit slight corner wear? Where's Wolfbear when you need him? I'm sure he'll back me up on this!

goudeygold · February 11, 2005 1:35PM

Come on dabighurt don't you know the "rules?"

puff, puff, GIVE... puff, puff, GIVE!!!!!

GG

NickM · February 11, 2005 1:37PM

jrdolan - that centering may be par for the course, but if PSA would give that centering an 8 on other cards consistently, I have some cards to resubmit for 7s and 8s.

Nick

brianwintersfan · February 11, 2005 1:42PM

<< If that's an 8, my ass is a banjo. >>

HaHaHa

wolfbear · February 11, 2005 2:20PM

<< Where's Wolfbear when you need him? I'm sure he'll back me up on this! >>

Never fear ... I am here.

Looks like a 5 to me.
He's selling cards with similar cert numbers, so they're probably from his own submission.

PSA grades a million cards per year.
An isolated mistake is bound to happen from time to time.
Anyway, it's good to see everyone can tell the difference between a 5 and an 8.

NewJerseyMeatHook · February 11, 2005 2:42PM

Easily a Mint 9.

mudflap02 · February 11, 2005 3:34PM

I love the 54 banks card, and the centering is really tricky on this one. A perfectly centered one will look O/C if you don't know what to look for. People tend to look at the bottom right corner of the card, and assume that it is heavy on the left. But notice that in the BW picture that his "bottom" sticks out well past where they cropped the color picture. To get the whole picture, Ernie's right ear and his left butt cheek should be equidistant from the edges. This card is O/C TB no doubt though, as most of them are, but look how high the cubs logo is placed on the card. I would give this card a solid 6, and possibly a slider 7, but a PSA 8 should be a lot better than that.

RipublicaninMass · February 12, 2005 2:40AM

and POOF! gone!

Buccaneer · February 12, 2005 3:06AM

Wolfbear: ...everyone?

RipublicaninMass · February 12, 2005 5:16AM

Seller writes to me "I bought the card about 20 years ago and submitted it to PSA about 6 months ago. I am the only owner of the card during that time. After I put it up for auction, I received a number of large number of complaints about its condition. Most collectors seem to think it should be graded a "5" or "6". I am going to re-submit it to PSA. After I receive it back from them, it will be put on eBay again for auction"

WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO TO THIS GUY!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

jrdolan · February 12, 2005 5:21AM

I believe that cert. # is a fairly recent grade, and last year PSA was busting balls on cards from this era. So I can't believe that card is really in that holder. I think the seller's description of "EX" is closer to the truth than the number on the flip.

But if it's a scam, what's the point of PhotoShopping an EX Banks onto a PSA 8 holder? If you stole the PSA 8 scan, wouldn't you just use the whole scan including the real PSA 8 card? Very weird.

Even weirder that the seller is willingly abandoning his "8" grade by resubmitting! Something odd here.

I agree that bad centering, even if common for the card, shouldn't be excused when grading. It's possible that PSA's 1954 specialist, having seen 85% of the Banks rookies come in with that kind of T/B centering, might have become a little immune to it by now, and maybe cut it some slack when he shouldn't have. The all-white coloring makes the borders tough to place, but OC really shows at the top.

None of that explains the corners on this "PSA 8" however.

Coolidge · February 12, 2005 8:15AM

<< As for that Banks, well, the T/B centering is about par for the course. >>

No, it's not.

mudflap02 · February 12, 2005 8:54AM

some recent ones:

PSA 8

PSA 6

jrdolan · February 12, 2005 9:31AM

mudflap, that 6 you just showed beats the 8 that started this thread, hands-down -- on centering and even on corners. The centering on the 8 you just showed is very, very nice for '54 Banks. I'm surprised it sold for less than SMR. Prolly the high min. bid is the reason for only 2 bidders. Of the six Banks rookies currently on eBay and in eBay stores, all are OC toward the top, some running right off the top edge. Even the GAI 9 is very close to OC, and they want $13,000 for it.

Stone193 · February 12, 2005 10:05AM

Has anyone mentioned the fact that the holder looks like it has been cracked and a crap card replaced with the legitimate 8?
If the guy has access to a sonic sealer at work, he can make it look a lot better than just "slapping" it back together?

Just a thought
your friend
Mike

Coolidge · February 12, 2005 10:38AM

<< Has anyone mentioned the fact that the holder looks like it has been cracked and a crap card replaced with the legitimate 8?
If the guy has access to a sonic sealer at work, he can make it look a lot better than just "slapping" it back together?

Just a thought
your friend
Mike >>

Mike, I don't think there's anything wrong with the holder and I do not suspect foul play on the part of the seller. I also don't believe that any PSA grader would grade that card an 8. I'm guessing that there was a clerical error made at PSA. For example, another card on the invoice which should have been holdered as an 8 may have been given the (psa 4-5?) grade that the Banks card deserves -- with the Banks card receiving the 8.

wolfbear · February 12, 2005 10:54AM

Bingo !

I was about to post the same thing as Coolidge.
The data entry person could have misread a 5 as an 8 or simply hit the wrong key.

Stone193 · February 12, 2005 11:03AM

<< Bingo !

I was about to post the same thing as Coolidge.
The data entry person could have misread a 5 as an 8 or simply hit the wrong key. >>

Good point guys
But that begs the issue of the process - if the graders were entering subgrades into the computer, it would be tallied and the final grade done for them and the system would print the label - not sure how they do it but I think the idea that labels are printed manually is just asking for trouble. Does anyone know how this process is done?
BTW, although the tamperproof things on the holder don't look messed with, doesn't the margins of the holder look a little extra cloudy? Or am I paranoid? Don't answer that Wolf!!

your friend
Mike

jrdolan · February 12, 2005 12:09PM

I do think you're paranoid, Mike, and I might even be more so. But I don't see the evidence of tampering that you see. But I sure would suspect a switcheroo after comparing the card to the label.

But Coolidge might have hit on the truth. PSA does make mistakes. I have a 1970 Rold Gold Lou Gehrig that says PSA 8 on the label, but it's PSA 9 in the database. I have to send it in so they can look at it and determine the correct grade. I wouldn't bother, except that I think that it might indeed be Mint. The point is, somebody did make a mistake either in printing the flip or entering the data. And I have seen 1952 Look n See Babe Ruths labeled as 1954.

But I sure hope there aren't many 5's and 6's getting PSA 8 labels! Especially on a card where the difference in price is like $1500.

1954 Ernie Banks Psa 8 ?????

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