Registry Sets - Completed and then Sold

FB · February 8, 2004 9:00PM

Guys,

We've been working on this Registry now for a few years and it seems to me that we have roughly 4 types of folks participating in this insanity - not including hybrids in varying degrees amongst the 4 types...

1 - COLLECTORS - those who collect for the fun and challenge of it - cost is sometimes not a factor - plan to hold onto cards and continue to complete and upgrade.

2 - INVESTORS - those who MAY collect for the fun and challenge of it, but also keep an eye on the bottom line - hoping to be able to at least break even, if not make a few bucks down the line.

3 - BUILDERS - those who primarily enjoy the challenge of building a set, be it complete, team, player or whatever - of finding those low pop commons and seeing that 100% mark on the Set Registry. Once the set is complete, the challenge is gone and the itch starts to want to buid the next one - the set is sold off as a whole or broken up.

4 - DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS IN FOR'S - those set builders who start out like a house on fire to build 1, 10, 25 different sets in their chosen grade only to find out that A) its harder than they thought,

its more expensive than they thought and/or C) they didn't get the satisfaction from it that they imagined they would.

My question regards the BUILDERS... Since the registry has been up and running, how many COMPLETE sets have we seen sold off or broken up? I'm going to further quantify this by saying from 1975 and back.
I'm also not including incomplete sets like Gaspipe's 78% - 69, Castaldi's 94% - 72 or JEB's 98% 70.

Off the top of my head, completed sets that sold off or are in the process of being sold off that I can remember...

1975 Topps - Castaldi
1974 Topps - Dog of Winter
1974 Topps - Carlos
1972 Topps - Carlos
1972 Topps - Neil
1972 Topps - Mickey
1971 Topps - Pekovich
1968 Topps - Ron Ritt's all PSA 8 Revere's Finest
1968 Topps - Mike Pawlus
1967 Topps - Skylaneflyer
1967 Topps - JW Merrill
1965 Topps - Mastro's 65
1965 Topps - Wayne's 65
1965 Topps - strapper's 65
1965 Topps - Peter Spaeth's 65
1964 Topps - Hoffman
1964 Topps Giants - Mantlefan
1963 Fleer Baseball - Stonegate
1960 Topps Football - JayWolt
1960 Topps Football - Stonegate
1956 Topps - Duke of Mint
1955 Topps - Jamie G's
1955 Bowman Football - Stonegate
1954 Bowman Football - Stonegate
1951 Bowman - Vargha
1949 Pacific Coast League - Vargha
1887 Allen & Ginters - Stonegate

EDITED TO ADD MORE SETS TO THE LIST

miami3 · February 8, 2004 10:04PM

Nice post Frank!

I have a 59 Topps baseball set that is 95% complete is all psa 8 grade that I plan to either list on ebay intact to see what happens............ or will break it up and sell it to Set Registry members/ebay auctions.

I just have not taken the time to check out the best way to do this financially yet.

highend · February 8, 2004 10:08PM

a few months back i think CASTALDI sold complete 75 registry set, i remember this because i had considered bidding on it and decided against it because it would have been more like an aquisition as opposed to collecting.

i guess i would fit into category 3, but i keep the cards and start something else. i just started work on a psa 8/9 74 set and my other projects are kind of taking a backseat. it's been a while since i submitted a significant amount of any 71 's or 75's.

8 psa sets started, 0 completed, no thought of selling any of them.
i did sell a high end raw 95% + complete, 70 topps set recently for some grading $.

Vargha · February 8, 2004 10:16PM

I bought Mike's 1975 set and combined it with my half completed set for the best copies. I then upgraded it. I just might be offering it for sale in the near future as well.

FB · February 8, 2004 10:42PM

Highend,

You are what I would consider to be a hybrid - a Builder/Collector and you're right - I forgot about Castaldi's 75 AND I also forgot about David's 51 Bowman AND 49 PCL set which I will now tag on to my original note.

toppsgun · February 8, 2004 10:50PM

I don't think JWMerrill's '67 set is being sold off, unless I missed the the press release overnight.

1965 sets broken or sold include:

Wayne Ellis
Maestro
Bobs (strapper)
Jay Wolt's was over 96% complete if I recall, but that doesn't make your hurdle.

ChicagoGlen · February 8, 2004 10:51PM

Small sale, but I sold off my 16% psa 8-9 1969 Topps Baseball set. The 664 set was too big for me so I started a 1954 Topps set in psa 7. I am about 10% into the set and I love it. The design is stunning and the set is only 250 cards.

Thanks,

Glen

rbeaton · February 8, 2004 10:59PM

There were several complete 70 Kellogg's sets (gemmintmans, mine, etc.) which have been sold in the past few years...

Looking at Frank's choices, I guess I would overall be a 3.5 (Builder/Didn't know what I was in for). However, I'm a 1 (collector) when it comes to my player sets...

Robert

helionaut · February 8, 2004 11:15PM

I believe the #6 1975 set was also purchased whole from notorious price-no-object, non-registering, set-builder-upper lafayette43. And there was another guy who had a 1975 set up to somewhere around 75% complete, in the top 10, who broke it up.

I'd say there's also a 5th type of registrant, the pragmatist, a hybrid of 1, 2, and 3. I recently received an offer for my 1975 set out of the blue. While it was less than I have into the set and selling it never really occurred to me before, it did make me think about the future. Knowing what the 2 other sets have sold for, and what I have into it, there is the potential for profit there, or at least breaking even. I need a new car, some home improvement, and my dog just cut his foot last night so that was $313.88 out of my pocket in the blink of an eye. The idea of the weekly outlay of the past 2 years coming back to me in one big chunk is almost like having put the money in savings with the "priceless" sense of achievement for free.

Basilone · February 9, 2004 12:21AM

I have a couple to add:

1.) Jamie G's 1955 Topps PSA 8/9 Set - auctioned on 8/14/03 as the 2nd All-Time Finest 1955 Topps Set by SportsCards Plus. Each card in the set was listed as its own separate lot (206 unique items). In my opinion, the most important card by card break up in the history of registry.

The Results:

Total SMR: $94,750.00
Price Realized (includes Buyers Premium): $168,996.95

Price Realized as a % of SMR = 178.36%

Here is a post/analysis regarding that set : 2nd All-Time Finest 1955 Topps PSA Set Breakup

2.) Peter Spaeth's 1965 Topps PSA 8 Set - I believe he had Charlie Smith in PSA 7 ...but out of 598 cards...that is close enough (he had a PSA 9 to offset it). This was broken up in the Summer of 2003. This should be added to 1965 sets sold off by Mastro, Wayne, and Strapper.

In regards to the 4/20/03 Mastro 1965 set (597 lots all ending at the exact same second...1 card was not listed) that was auctioned on eBay....(aka...the day the snipe programs crashed).

At the time of the auction it was:

#1 All-Time Finest 1965 Topps Baseball set known to exist
Weighted GPA of 8.65 with 100% completion
All cards are graded 8NQ or higher
The Set includes 3 PSA 10s, 329 PSA 9s, and 265 PSA 8s (597 cards)
The Set includes 22 POP 1 PSA 9s. 45 POP 2 PSA 9s, and 49 POP 3 PSA 9s.
Note: card #398 (Reds Rookies PSA 8 common was pulled from the auction)
All 597 auctions ending at the same exact time

The total SMR of the Mastronet set was $63,588.00 (the 3 PSA 10 commons calculated at $325 per).

Ebay bids totaled approx $60,427.67 ( 95.03% of SMR)

The Top 15 cards that sold for the LOWEST percentage of SMR

card# name grade SMR BID %ofSMR
547 DICK STIGMAN 9 80 $17.25 21.56%
559 ED BAILEY 9 90 $31.00 34.44%
578 CAMILO CARREON 8 32 $11.50 35.94%
539 HERM STARRETTE 9 80 $31.00 38.75%
514 JOE AZCUE 9 80 $31.10 38.88%
591 BOB SKINNER 8 32 $12.75 39.84%
587 JOE SPARMA 9 80 $33.00 41.25%
572 ORIOLES TEAM 9 175 $76.00 43.43%
589 GIANTS ROOKIES 8 32 $14.51 45.34%
583 WES COVINGTON 9 90 $41.00 45.56%
394 JIM HANNAN 9 80 $37.00 46.25%
417 ED BRINKMAN 9 80 $37.00 46.25%
432 JIM GRANT 9 80 $37.00 46.25%
152 PHIL ORTEGA 10 325 $152.50 46.92%
503 PHIL GAGLIANO 9 80 $38.10 47.63%

The Top 20 cards that sold for the HIGHEST percentage of SMR
card# name grade SMR BID %ofSMR
22 CHARLIE SMITH 8 18 $306.00 1700.00%
115 BOBBY RICHARDSN 8 18 $158.50 880.56%
14 LEN GABRIELSON 8 18 $103.50 575.00%
109 WALT BOND 8 18 $103.50 575.00%
110 RON SANTO 8 18 $101.00 561.11%
367 LEON WAGNER 8 18 $91.11 506.17%
291 JERRY LYNCH 8 18 $88.00 488.89%
196 RON FAIRLY 8 18 $85.25 473.61%
177 PETE MIKKELSEN 8 18 $83.00 461.11%
309 STEVE HAMILTON 8 18 $82.00 455.56%
305 RICO CARTY 8 18 $81.00 450.00%
96 SONNY SIEBERT 8 18 $78.77 437.61%
11 AL SO LEADER 9 65 $280.00 430.77%
308 METS ROOKIES 9 65 $280.00 430.77%
245 JOE PEPITONE 9 65 $276.00 424.62%
71 JOHN O'DONOGHUE 8 18 $73.00 405.56%
318 MATTY ALOU 9 65 $255.00 392.31%
370 TOMMY DAVIS 8 18 $68.00 377.78%
30 JIM BOUTON 8 18 $63.01 350.06%
413 HAL RENIFF 8 22 $76.01 345.50%
19 GATES BROWN 8 18 $62.00 344.44%

Here is a thread that recaptures the trials and tribulations of that historic registry day:

ANALYSIS-MASTRO'S #1 1965 SET EBAY AUCTION (The day the snipe programs crashed.)

John Basilone

Basilone · February 9, 2004 2:04AM

An interesting note regarding Jaime G's 1955 Topps PSA Set....it was never officially retired when it was deleted from the registry...so there is no permanent record of that set on the set registry.

Ouch.

onegaucho · February 9, 2004 2:12AM

I'd consider myself a COLLECTOR for the most part.

This doesn't fit into the same league as the sets listed, but I did have a complete 1973 Topps '53 Reprints #1 (only 8 cards total) set that I sold off about 8 months ago to another board member a while back.

mikeschmidt · February 9, 2004 2:14AM

Vargha:

Care to share your 1951 Bowman and 1949 Bowman PCL experiences? If you'd rather keep private, no worries.

thegemmintman · February 9, 2004 2:17AM

I'm a collector who pretends to be investing in sets that I'm building, and I still don't know what I'm in for

.

Vargha · February 9, 2004 2:58AM

Marc -- The net on the PCL set was about break even as I needed the money to finance the growth of the 1951 Bowman monster. It was sold complete (on eBay I think). The 1951 Bowman set was broken up and sold individually to several collectors. I believe that I, uhhh . . . aaahh . . . lost money on that one. Yeah, that's right! It was a horrible financial loss and I have the records to prove it.

rbeaton · February 9, 2004 3:31AM

<< <i>Yeah, that's right! It was a horrible financial loss and I have the records to prove it. >>

So, that's what you tell the IRS, but what did you tell the wife...

Robert

The53Kid · February 9, 2004 5:37AM

MastroNet sold off an entire 1952 Topps set in PSA 8. It is still listed as the #5 all-time set.

And I believe it's new owner is in the current #5 position.

And Branca sold off his 1955 Topps set recently, it is currently listed as 99.51 %, so I'm not sure if it was ever completely finished.

For the 1956 Topps issue, there are a number of sets listed in the All-time category but not in the current category. I don't know if these got sold off, or just retired. Any ideas?

FB · February 9, 2004 5:37AM

The wife can make you A LOT more miserable than the IRS!!!!

qualitycards · February 9, 2004 7:57AM

TG - Is correct, my '65 set was broken up (w/ Stump getting 75% of them) at 96.6% - the 20 cards I needed & 10 for upgrades were all the killers that would have cost me multiples of smr, Charlie Smith, Ron Fairly, Pepitone, both Blaisgames, Sonny Siebert etc... I broke it up about 10 months ago, and I summize if I left it in tact, I still wouldn't have it complete unless I threw caution to the wind and bid like a mad man, if & when a card I needed came available.

FB - If it counts, I just busted up a 100% complete 1960 Topps football set (132 cards)...jay

RobE · February 9, 2004 9:41AM

1980 Topps Baseball Set (679 out of 726 with 47 to go),(GPA) 9.05,Percent of completion 93.53% complete,Set Rating 8.50

Occasionally ebay sales have been eyebrow raising on a number of cards.Once I can breathe it's possible to probably go back to buying though too irresponsible to think about set building right now.Selling a set is fun but it's sad when you have to.

Although by selling, I've probably learned the most about the cards in all the time of putting it togethor.There have been so many questions and accidental discoveries from Variation (The latest 2 are the Astros team and 331 Richie Herbner from the Mets) to population, quality etc. It's been really interesting. Plus a number of questions about certain cards I never gave any thought to until someone asked.

It's been interesting to pull up a what's classified as a 1980 common like Lolich from the 68 Tigers Team,or the Holtzman from the A's dynasty team (a 4-1 Post season record.) Mike Flanagan (won 23 games in 79), Orosco officially retires making Henderson the last active set player (unless he doesn't make it to a team this year and retires.) Two more Hofers from Molitor and Eck,McCovey's final career card unlike Brock where - card # 1 is the only final of his career. No complete career stat card for Brock and that's the start of the set with he and Yaz entering 3000 hits.

I wish I knew more stuff as deep as paperstock,designer and all that other junk nobody cares about but that's something to get to later. Another cool think was working with someone to figure out what's left to actually complete the 80 set in 8 or better. Something like 75 cards back on 12/24.However, things have slowly changed on a number of them.Nice to know lately,there have been a number, or two of beasts whick at the very least wound up in 8 holders recently.

highend · February 9, 2004 10:00AM

fb- in regards to your 72 set; if you ever fall into a strict category 2 let me know i'd be more than willing to pay full SMR for some of those series 6 psa 9's

vargha- did you use a "buy it now" on that 75 set? i'm surprised to hear you would want to sell yours , for a while i thought you were going to challenge for the 1 or 2 spot.

helionaut- i thought the infamous LAFAYETTE43 sold his 75's, when he was buying 75's he was a sellers dream and my worst nightmare.

FB · February 9, 2004 10:10AM

Highend,

You're going to have to wait quite a while for the 72's. If I ever REALLY need money, I've got about 3000 other PSA 8's and 9's from 57 to 71 that would get sold first. The 72 set has been a labor of love since April of 1999 and about 40% of it was submitted on my own.

Keep watching eBay. You can pick up a number of the higher pop 9's even in the high series for under $50. And don't sell the lower series short either... When dslsports posts a run of first, second and third series 9's on eBay even though they only have a weight of 1 - a lot of times 12 or 13 of them won't go above the opening bid of $25. In my book - thats money in the bank!

Mantlefan · February 9, 2004 10:53AM

I sold my completed 1964 Topps Giants BB set [100% complete, GPA 8.75] on Superior. Kinda got tired with the set and the difficulty on improving it. In general, I am a collector-builder. Certain sets [57 Topps BB, 60 Topps FB, 64 Philly FB], I will never sell. My other sets might go if I need the cash for my primary sets.

dakota · February 9, 2004 11:44AM

FB,
Add me to the list.Broke down and sold off the 2002 #1 1974 set
and sprinkled it throughout many of the other 74 sets.Still not sure why i did that.....oh well maybe I fit into the builder catagory.
Cool thread

Tipem · February 9, 2004 12:07PM

FB,

The Duke of Mint sold his 56 set also.Broke it up.Also the 3rd finest 56 set was sold in its entirety a few months ago.

Vic

mcastaldi · February 9, 2004 12:18PM

highend> I always hated bidding against Lafayette43 on 75T. Fortunately I was nearly done with the 75 set before he got real serious and out of control. Lafayette sold his set to Steve Wolfe (Machdoc) in an eBay transaction. This was about 3 weeks prior to putting my set to eBay where Vargha picked it up.

In 2002, I sold what I had assembled of a 1972 Topps set. I'd gotten to 94% or so with a GPA of around 7.94. I sold it for a variety of reasons, one of which was to work more on the 75 set. As I was finishing up the 75 set, I started looking at the market for 72s and saw the prices were way down. I still loved the 72 set and so almost exactly a year ago, I decided to start it up again. This time though, I was able to apply some lessons learned from having climbed the mountain once. Right now, I'm at 92% on the second go-round with 72T and this time the GPA is at 8.16 - and I'm into it for less money than the first time. I have orders in place which will get me to about 96% by the end of the month - and better if my recent submission comes back as I hope.

I'd guess I'd fall somewhere between collector and builder. I enjoy the chase, but it's all about the cards. This will only be reinforced by my quest to complete a run of raw sets from 78 to 85 where the minimum standard for each card is "best possible". It's a project that will never be completed, I think. But it'll keep me off the streets

Mike

highend · February 9, 2004 9:57PM

fb- i figured you'd say something like that

40 % raw submissions is very impressive, i'm trying to do it with alot of my own submissions but, i think that once the raw cards i already have are slabbed it will be tough to find raw PSA 9 material. then it will be time to lay out some serious cash for the tough cards. i think a PSA 8 foli ia went for 200+ this weekend.

toppsgun · February 9, 2004 10:09PM

I'll admit to being 1 (Collector), 2 (Investor) and 3 (Builder) at one time or another.

I'll never admit to what's closer to the truth (4), which may be more aptly titled, "Following fellow lemmings off the cliff." At least we're a happy bunch of lemmings.

highend · February 9, 2004 10:09PM

mcastaldi- good luck with your current 72 set, such a monster and in high grade is truly an accomplishment. aside from being my favorite release of the 70's i chose it as my first attempt at a complete psa 8 or better set for the challenge i know it will present.

i've dabbled in the 78 set and found it deceptively tough in 9 or better.

duner · February 9, 2004 11:26PM

I'm glad this topic arose....i started shopping my '51 fb set around a couple weeks ago. Mile high seems to have a commission free special for all consignments over $7500, but that kind of confused me because there's still a buyer's premium..isn't there??? it seems like one of the auction houses has the best upside of selling nice sets, looking at previous results they always seem to pull multiples of smr for high grade '50s material.... however, i'm still torn with ebay. since the sale is to pay for tuition at least on ebay i can guarentee a minimum price or keep my beloved cards, which doesn't seem to be an option with the major auction houses. somehow i know i'd have the one set that only gets the opening bid and have to take the bath. I think in the end i'm going to do what the predominant opinion on the boards has been for the past year....firesale, which seems like a dreadfully tedious process. but i guess money talks. fortunately i have until august to sort things out.

PS...anyone know about tax implications when you sell this stuff???? do you just pay taxes on the profit/ take a write off on any loses...or are you responsible for the entire sale??? i'd imagine most people look the other way until the magic $10,000 mark is hit.

aconte · February 9, 2004 11:56PM

Duner,

I would be very interested in some or all of you Philadelphia Eagles. I hope I get the opportunity
to buy them from you.

aconte

Vargha · February 10, 2004 12:05AM

You pay taxes on the profits, but the losses cannot be written off unless you are doing it as a business.

Fuzz · February 10, 2004 2:22AM

I believe that Stonegate has sold off some really top notch complete sets within the last year.
Allen & Ginters 1887
1960 Topps FB
1954 Bowman FB
1955 Bowman FB
come to mind off the top of my head. I believe these were all #1 at the time or at least a close #2.
Fuzz

Basilone · February 10, 2004 2:31AM

Stonegate also sold off his 1963 Fleer baseball set that was #1 at the time (by a wide margin).

John

Machodoc · February 10, 2004 2:53AM

Mike - I didn't realize that Danny Miller was Lafayette43. Helionaut is correct - his set was #6 at the time I bought it last July. I used the BIN for that one and probably paid a little too much, but it was worth it. I upgraded it from 8.07 to its current 8.20 and have not lifted a finger on it since. I have however recently gone up again him fpr PSA 8 1957's.

I would say that I am 67% a collector and 33% an investor. I really don't have any plans on selling any of my sets. I will probably establish a charitable remainder trust in a few years to take advantage of some of those tax breaks because I know my daughter won't have any interest in them.

NickM · February 10, 2004 6:05AM

What is the difference between a #1 on a budget and a #2? Is it just their attitude toward selling?

BTW, Rob, I don't think Mike Morgan has retired yet, and he's in 1980 Topps (A's rookies).

Nick

RobE · February 10, 2004 6:12AM

BTW, Rob, I don't think Mike Morgan has retired yet, and he's in 1980 Topps (A's rookies).

No kidding.

What organization is he with?

NickM · February 10, 2004 6:34AM

Rob - last I remember, he was looking for a job in the majors after the Diamondbacks let him go after the 2002 season. He didn't pitch in the majors in 2003, but he still shows as an active player on statistical lists. I would not be surprised if he surfaced with an independent minor league team.

Nick

FB · February 10, 2004 6:56AM

Nick,

To your question about the difference between #1 Collector and #2 Investor - I figure since I listed them that I should try to answer it.

In my mind I would look at a Collector as guys like Merkel, Fogel, Branca, Ron Ritt, Chris Renaud, Marc Shoenen, etc. These are guys who find certain pieces for their collections and money is no object if its something that they really, REALLY want. These are just big dollar examples but it can be true of guys who'll pay 5X SMR for hard to find or oddball card for a player or team set - not worried about whether they'll make money or even recoup their investment - because right now, they have no plans to sell. It joins the collection.

The Investors are those who take a more cost conscious approach because frankly - they either can't afford to not worry about cost or they're looking ahead to the day when they may either choose to sell or feel that they have to sell. The investors are more likely to spend time culling through raw cards because its cheaper to send their own submissions than it is to buy the cards from eBay. The investors will lose cards on eBay time and time again because they won't raise their bids above what they feel is reasonable. I would put myself more in the Investor ranks because I try to build my sets without impacting the house budget. I'll submit 1000 cards to PSA and then sell off 800 for a profit in order to keep 200 PSA 8's and 9's for free.

I think that every one has bits of the 4 categories in them and that the amount of each can change over time. If I had to grade myself on a scale of 1 to 10 (bowing to PSA's tried and true scale) I'd have to rank myself as the following.

Collector - 5
Investor - 8
Set Builder - 6
Didn't Know What I Was In For - 2

Just some more of my own rantings and ravings...

NickM · February 10, 2004 1:02PM

Fair enough. I have a collector's appetite and interests on an investor's budget.

Nick

Registry Sets - Completed and then Sold

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